Summer Offensive - Oshawott (Axis) vs Griefhead (Russia)

[Oshawott]

T5 - North

1st Corps takes Novgorod. Manstein's Corps then pushes through to attack the hexes adjacent to Novgorod. Fortunately the fortifications were rather weak.

[Oshawott]

T5 - Center

I concentrate all my forces and break through the land bridge with infantry. The three hex gap is exploited by tanks and Vitebsk is encircled with 7 divisions. I pay a hefty price though.

[Oshawott]

T5 - South

The pocket is broken and I seal it again but flimsy. I don't have enough troops to do everything well.

Two Corps are across the Dnepr and are enlarging the bridgehead. I like to see shattering rifle divisions.

I also push through the lower Dnepr and flip the hexes all the way down to the Crimean land bridge. Then I get greedy and attack a cavalry division in swamp and pay the price for it.

[Oshawott]

T5 - OOB

[Oshawott]

T5 - Losses

[A game]

It seems you got a "free lunch" with Leningrad, imo the Soviet has to defend strongly here, there is just way to much good terrain to give it away like he has.

I guess Im probably repeating others here but I would be funneling everything at AGC now as you should have a serious opportunity to take out Moscow in 41 or at the least get some big pockets if he tries to stand and fight, either way you have crippled the Soviets.

[Oshawott]

It seems you got a "free lunch" with Leningrad, imo the Soviet has to defend strongly here, there is just way to much good terrain to give it away like he has.

I think Griefhead's plan was to defend closer to Leningrad and focuses on the swamp and rough hexes in the vicinity of the city. Unfortunately, the speed of my advance meant that almost none of the fortifications were finished. I think it's essential to defend further south with a checkerboard and to take advantage of all the swamp hexes just in front of the Luga.

[hfarrish]

Not just a checkerboard...IMO it's essential to commit significant forces to the Pskov area. There are enough swamps and rivers there to bog things down and (a) given Leningrad defenses time to develop but more importantly (b) give the Germans less time to exploit them. I am not always successful at holding Leningrad but a robust Pskov defense can push things to where Leningrad doesn't fall until turn 17 or so, which almost by definition secures Moscow.

[A game]

I agree hfarrish, against a good german player you can never hold Leningrad till 42, but the important thing is to force them to use up time and forces taking it, and to do that you need to exploit every defensive hex available.

[Callistrid]

ORIGINAL: A game

I agree hfarrish, against a good german player you can never hold Leningrad till 42, but the important thing is to force them to use up time and forces taking it, and to do that you need to exploit every defensive hex available.

I disagree. Good soviet player can defend Leningrad against a good german player.
Defending Leningrad need high CV troops from center, and south front.

[Michael T]

Under the current rule set a good Soviet player should have a very good chance of holding Leningrad and Moscow no matter the skill of the German player.

[hfarrish]

ORIGINAL: Callistrid

ORIGINAL: A game

I agree hfarrish, against a good german player you can never hold Leningrad till 42, but the important thing is to force them to use up time and forces taking it, and to do that you need to exploit every defensive hex available.

I disagree. Good soviet player can defend Leningrad against a good german player.
Defending Leningrad need high CV troops from center, and south front.

Just to clarify, I wasn't trying to say that a Soviet player couldn't hold Leningrad...I was just saying that it is essential to mount a robust defense around Pskov in order to make that possible. As such, I think I agree with both of you guys.

[Flaviusx]

As things presently stand, if the Soviet makes a point of it, he stands a very good chance of holding on to Leningrad. But you have to make it a number one priority and go all in from turn 1 on and make a strong stand at Pskov. There's no half measures here.

[charlie0311]

Hi guys, "as presently stands" must mean sovs get the 1/1 bonus. IMHO, not just humble but laughable, no way to hold Lgrad when 1/1 goes. Axis player will pocket and kill your Pskov defense.

Sov can make the urban hexes more stubborn via nightly resupply with airbases in hex. Osh may know better than me about this.

[Flaviusx]

ORIGINAL: charlie0311

Hi guys, "as presently stands" must mean sovs get the 1/1 bonus. IMHO, not just humble but laughable, no way to hold Lgrad when 1/1 goes. Axis player will pocket and kill your Pskov defense.

Sov can make the urban hexes more stubborn via nightly resupply with airbases in hex. Osh may know better than me about this.

Nah, still doable even without the 1/1 bonus.

Now, if you muck around with the fortification settings...

[Oshawott]

Now, if you muck around with the fortification settings...

Changing the fortification settings will have a much more dramatic impact on this game then eliminating the 1/1 bonus. It will have to be carefully tested.

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: Oshawott

Now, if you muck around with the fortification settings...

Changing the fortification settings will have a much more dramatic impact on this game then eliminating the 1/1 bonus. It will have to be carefully tested.

its great that we will have so many variables with 1.08 but it is going to need some care I agree.

One thing that worries me is no 1-1 (fine) and mild winter (in isolation a huge gain to gameplay) in combination may well see very little Soviet offensive action in a reasonably balanced game. But then it seems as if the Soviets will have far more armaments at that stage so probably far more SUs in the key armies ... so who knows?

[A game]

Im not convinced about the L-grad defense, can anyone point me to an AAR where it was held? I have yet to see a game where this has happened...

Honestly in 41 if the germans commit enough forces they can go anywhere they want, with proper support from SU and air they can crack ANY defensive CV.

[Michael T]

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[hfarrish]

ORIGINAL: charlie0311

Hi guys, "as presently stands" must mean sovs get the 1/1 bonus. IMHO, not just humble but laughable, no way to hold Lgrad when 1/1 goes. Axis player will pocket and kill your Pskov defense.

Sov can make the urban hexes more stubborn via nightly resupply with airbases in hex. Osh may know better than me about this.

The bonus is only on the attack right? Generally attacking is not what saves Lgrad. I think it's still doable without it, just much more difficult.