How to take Greece?

[Centuur]

End the war in Finland with Germany. You've done enough there. Don't take risks. You've got the necessary US entry reduction and made the USSR pay for it in units. Count your blessings.

Remember the golden rule of WiF: if you can't have the worst result possible, don't do it...

[Ur_Vile_WEdge]

Can he? I mean, from the way it sounds, the Russians might have lost a bunch of guys, but if they have even one person past the border area, you can't stop the war. And I'd think that the Russians would have managed that.

[Centuur]

If he can't, he's got problems...

[Ur_Vile_WEdge]

Ehh, I dunno. If the Soviets have lost a lot of units, especially some big ones like an HQ, then even with the Finns gone, they can be in some trouble when the Germans come knocking in 41. If it costs them an effective barb defense, well.... the Finnish sacrifice will be remembered.

[Extraneous]

Yes I know Option 20: has not been implemented.
 
 
Question: Using Option 20: (Surprised ZoCs) ZOCs don’t extend from a surprised unit.
 
During an invasion on the surprise impulse with no shore bombardment modifier.
 
Would a notional unit next to a Greek corps in clear terrain have a value of Zero?
 
 

11.14 Invasions
 
Invasion combats
 
The notional unit has 1 combat factor, modified by:
• +1 if it is a city hex;
• +1 if the hex is in the home country of the major power that controls the hex;
• +1 if it is not stacked with a land unit, but is in the ZOC of a friendly corps or army;
• + the shore bombardment modifier for each invading unit;
• -1 if it cannot trace a basic supply path of any length; and
• -1 if surprised (see 15. Surprise).

 
 
 

[Centuur]

Yes. It's not in a ZOC...

[Joseignacio]

ORIGINAL: Centuur

Yes. It's not in a ZOC...

Cool, we always played it wrong.

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

ORIGINAL: Centuur

Yes. It's not in a ZOC...

Cool, we always played it wrong.

How was it to play with the Surprised ZOCs option? Was it not making it to tough on France?

[Joseignacio]

France was no great deal. There is a line, and only one impulse of surprise. There is not so much the GE guy can do.

Now, with Barbarossa, that was a different matter.

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

France was no great deal. There is a line, and only one impulse of surprise. There is not so much the GE guy can do.

Now, with Barbarossa, that was a different matter.

I was more thinking that Germany would easily overrun Netherlands and Belgium without any ZOC during the surprise making the defence of France much harder. No more CW units in Rotterdam or Antwerp.

I do not even want to begin thinking about USSR. [:D]

[Joseignacio]

Yes, they fall very easily. Sometimes I have been able to debark the BEF in Belgium, mainly because of bad preparations of the GE player, and once a GE player attacked in rain [:-][X(][&:] I was able even to move all the french for an advanced defense.

But only if the GE player plays wrong.

[Joseignacio]

ORIGINAL: Centuur

If he can't, he's got problems...

Well, since Lappland is not in the Borderlands, I cannot. And by now I cannot hope to kick him out of there, but:

- He will pay dearly for his posible advance, he has like 4/5 units in Lappland plus like 2 in Borderlands that could attack togewther. My stacks are of 2 units each, blocking nearly all the border. I have the finnish bomber and a finnish and a German figther. If I am the first one I may move the GE fleet out.
- In the meantime, he simply cannot press on Bessarabia, so I am getting that resource for free.

But of course, the survival of Finland is at a stake.

[Centuur]

Why advance with the USSR? Why not simply stay put? Those German units in Finland can't be used for attacking USSR units and can't be used in other places. They will surely be missed...

There should be about 4-6 German corps in Finland. That's very good for the Allied side. So cease firing...

[Joseignacio]

ORIGINAL: Centuur

Why advance with the USSR? Why not simply stay put? Those German units in Finland can't be used for attacking USSR units and can't be used in other places. They will surely be missed...

There should be about 4-6 German corps in Finland. That's very good for the Allied side. So cease firing...

Those units are not needed anywhere else. [:)] The German starts with more than enough units to crush France and, of course, it will slowly produce more.

The objectives were:

- Make the USSR lose 1.8 american chits.
- Make them pay for trying to take Finland a high price in RU units, with no AXIS loses. Not successful if he gets FI because then the FI units wouldn't re-spawn again and that would be a cost on my side...
- Delay Bessarabia claims.

Two fulfilled, one doubtful.

Of course, now I would prefer to sue for peace but he was lucky to be able to put units again in Lapland, so it doesn't seem possible by now. However...

I have air support and cover and will send naval too, for defensive purposes. What happens if he tries to attack and gets flipped? then I would get a -7 or -9 depending if he has (can't recall) 3+art or 4+art in Petsamo. I have 3 Finnish units left (I think I lost one) and one coming to Helsinki. I can counter attack, with good options to him taking losses he cannot afford (I would, with the Finnish) and still being able to sue for peace at the end of the turn.

However, there are possibilities too that He will break my line which goes from north of Helsinki to one of the Borderland hexes and leave some of my units (probably GE) unsupplied, if he has a lucky roll. Well, it's then when I will have to load them in transports and leave...

There are at the moment like 4 corps and 1 div in Finland. Not a big strain.

I am a bit afraid. Losing Finland is not a major blow but would be a nuisance. Especialy for the winterized units, as well as the second front...

[Centuur]

Not needed elsewhere? I wonder about that. 4 corps is an awful lot for Germany to have sitting around doing absolutely nothing in Finland. Together with some corps on anti partisan duty in Poland and some defense around Denmark and the North Sea coast you are probably looking at a total of 10 corps sitting on their proverbial asses.

Those corps should be agressively taking out minors in the Balkans or aid Italy when it adds a chunk of French Africa to their territory...

Or is Mussolini a coward again...

[Joseignacio]

ORIGINAL: Centuur

Not needed elsewhere? I wonder about that. 4 corps is an awful lot for Germany to have sitting around doing absolutely nothing in Finland. Together with some corps on anti partisan duty in Poland and some defense around Denmark and the North Sea coast you are probably looking at a total of 10 corps sitting on their proverbial asses.

Those corps should be agressively taking out minors in the Balkans or aid Italy when it adds a chunk of French Africa to their territory...

Or is Mussolini a coward again...

I intend to do the Balkan offensive in late 1940, now we are (IIRW) going to start jan/feb 1940. The Italians are calm by now, don't want to give USA chits, and just their presence is enough menace for France in the border. They'll have to join before France falls, anyway if we want to take some minors... BTW, I am Italy too.

How do you guys manage to send (and use) GE units to Northern Africa? I would send, yes, but I am usually more unsupplied than the opposite, and I am hardly able to unsupply the CW there or even France. Because of this I am usually reluctant to send GE units, and obviously the IT use to be on the passive side unless rare opportunities arise. Besides, IT only has 2 TRS so it can take forever to take a reasonable amount of units to NA, and it will be very obvious.

I wanted to post a mobile phone photo of Finland to illustrate the front, but the photo was very bad, but I think I can upload some others, ao you may see there are not many opportunities in N Africa (at least by now).

[Centuur]

To get German units in North Africa is quite simple. First, in the surprise impulse, Italy DoW's France and invades with a division from the Western Med. Next impulse a TRS unloads an Italian HQ and a nice Italian unit, while a couple of heavy German INF railmove towards La Spezia, where of course the Italian TRS are rebased at the end of this turn. They are picked up and sailed next turn to join the Italians in Algeria. The Italian HQ provides supply for the German units, which can't be interdicted by the CW, since the CW and Italy are not at war...

[Joseignacio]

ORIGINAL: Centuur

To get German units in North Africa is quite simple. First, in the surprise impulse, Italy DoW's France and invades with a division from the Western Med. Next impulse a TRS unloads an Italian HQ and a nice Italian unit, while a couple of heavy German INF railmove towards La Spezia, where of course the Italian TRS are rebased at the end of this turn. They are picked up and sailed next turn to join the Italians in Algeria. The Italian HQ provides supply for the German units, which can't be interdicted by the CW, since the CW and Italy are not at war...

True, I usually do the div thingy but not the HQ but it's a good idea. Maybe I shouldn't, then, declare war to UK, just that:

- I love to send my minisubs to Gibraltar in surprise.

- I will not be able to stop Brits to help Yugoslavia or Greece through Med ...

- I will give a second chit roll to USA.

[Centuur]

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

ORIGINAL: Centuur

To get German units in North Africa is quite simple. First, in the surprise impulse, Italy DoW's France and invades with a division from the Western Med. Next impulse a TRS unloads an Italian HQ and a nice Italian unit, while a couple of heavy German INF railmove towards La Spezia, where of course the Italian TRS are rebased at the end of this turn. They are picked up and sailed next turn to join the Italians in Algeria. The Italian HQ provides supply for the German units, which can't be interdicted by the CW, since the CW and Italy are not at war...

True, I usually do the div thingy but not the HQ but it's a good idea. Maybe I shouldn't, then, declare war to UK, just that:

- I love to send my minisubs to Gibraltar in surprise.

- I will not be able to stop Brits to help Yugoslavia or Greece through Med ...

- I will give a second chit roll to USA.

Well. That's World in Flames, isn't it. Everything you decide to do has it's price...

[Joseignacio]