One of the problems testing showed with AE was that it was entirely
too easy for Japan - with forces stationed in China - even if forces
that withdrew for operations in the SRA indeed left the country -
to conquer China (excluding the Kunming and Chunking areas,
and excluding the vast North, which isn't even China in that period).
We set out to review and revise file data with a view to making the
situation in China more historically correct: one in which, failing
commitment of major resources, Japan would either face a stalemate
or at least a very long and hard fight to gain control - even of the areas
of Eastern, Central and Southern China that were nominally of interest.
[One strategic goal, only realized in the special case of Operation Ichi
Go, was the linking of Indochina and North China by rail.]
We found that Chinese units were generally penalized with high rates
of disruption and fatigue, and generally not planned for the defense of
the locations they defended, and had huge numbers of missing or
disabled squads. We found huge numbers of specialist troops, generally
controlled by HQ units, were entirely missing - neither at HQ nor attached
to the line units. We found many types of specialists - e.g. artillery -
were missing - and we had to add devices to include them. We found that
base forces were not large enough to permit historical operations - so
an entire group (like AVG could fly in, and operate effectively). We found
the limited amount of AAA was almost entirely absent. And we found
a dirth of engineers - one of China's "secret weapons" - the ability to
build and repair things. We also found that RHS guerilla units DO work -
better than expected - but that it is impossible to have anything like the
numbers present (150,000 ROC, perhaps 65,000 Red). Even so, players
who fail to use these seemingly weak units - which CAN operate WITHOUT
a LOC - are missing a trick. We found the ROC Marine Corps utterly missing
and its significant (if not major) naval assets in the interior were also missing:
Japan was able to control the upper Yangtze with coastal defenses, mines
and minor vessels, backed by air power. This control is not absolute - but
it will cost something to overcome now. Because rivers in RHS are navigable
(sometimes seasonally) - it matters if they can be exploited by the enemy.
We also found Chinese "armor" was missing - and the one surviving light
tank - and the one significant motorized formation - are now modeled.
The 200th Motorized Division is now the only fast Allied unit in China.
The ROC 5th Army ++ (indicating heavily reinforced) has an organic T-26
tank unit as well as many other useful assets. [There also is a platoon
of T-26s at Chiang's HQ - for show] ROC "heavy" artillery, which won the
first and second battles of Changsha - is also
entirely present.
In addition, we found that China utterly lacked the economic foundation to
make its forces effective. Adding more units only made this worse. We
found that locations were often wholly lacking in industry - and that those
with historical or new fortifications were generally rated at none at all. We
found vast numbers of major population centers either missing - or not
modeled as having any significant population. Those over a million were
redefined as major urban hexes. Those over 1/3 of a million were redefined as
minor urban hexes. [Both of these in the pwhexe file] We also made garrison
requirements related to population as well as to other things making a location
important (major bases, major industries - both of which can increase garrison
requirements by 50%). And we made political points related mainly to population,
otherwise to industry, base development, potential base development and sometimes
to being important related to lines of communication.
Then there is the greater political situation in China. RHS has changed its
character to reflect the situation in 1941. Tibet is more or less independent,
it has its "army" at Lhasa - and it is more or less a British ally. It also
has no lines of communications worthy of the term - more or less Tibet is merely
Lhasa - with a garrison unit - unable to export local production to any meaningful
degree. It IS an air base capable of helping planes with transit range issues.
Sinkiang is more or less independent as well. It does have an "army" at three locations -
brigade size units - and it is formally a Soviet ally. All locations in Sinkiang (and
the province SE of it) are defined as Soviet. There is also one Soviet unit in
country - an NKVD regiment (historically guarding an oilfield). There is also
one civilian ROC aviation base force - and an element of Eurasia Airline starts
there (operating German Ju-52 trimotor transports). The rest of China is divided
into Chinese and Japanese controlled areas. China has both ROC (NRA = National
Revolutionary Army) and RED units - which should not be under the same command but are.
[In a tag team game, give the RED units to the Soviet player - he needs something to do
anyway and is the closest thing to an ally of theirs] There also should be Warlord
players - but these are classified as ROC - as that is their nearest thing to an ally.
Now, however, I have further divided China politically. Having discovered that the
North China Command of the IJA was a creation of the Kwangtung Army - and still under
its influence, preventing full cooperation with the nominal China Command at Nanking -
I have assigned the locations in the North to the North China Area Army. This army,
in turn, is now subordinate to the Kwangtung Army. Kwangtung Army, in turn, is an
independent command - more true than it should have been IRL. The rest of occupied
China is assigned to the China Expeditionary Army - which is also an independent command
- also more than it should have been IRL. Manchu, Chinese, Japanese, Korean and even a f
ew Russians were in Kwangtung Army and in the North China Area Army. China Expeditionary
Army was very different - with Japanese and much more developed Chinese troop formations
than existed in the North China area.
Just as there are not enough slots to model all the Chinese guerilla formations,
so there are not enough to model the Japanese occupation formations, never mind their
MILLIONS of allies. A typical Class C China Brigade of IJA has four - and many had 5
or even 6 - independent battalions (each with a slice of artillery and engineers
- with no brigade assets except HQ and communications) - so the brigade could be at 4
to 6 different locations at the same time with a combined arms force. We also lack
the slots to define every hex in China - and almost every one should be a location.
So we must simplify - both for playability - and out of necessity. Reducing the number
of guerillas, locations and occupation formations is a balanced way to achieve this.
We get the flavor by having a large subset of minor locations, guerillas and occupation
troops. Chinese and foreign forces in China also traded extensively - and also had all
sorts of rivalries. We make garrison rules apply to both sides, and small locations do
not require a garrison and will "feed" resources and supplies - and sometimes fuel and
oil - to other locations they are connected to by LOC. This is closer to reality than
every location must be garrisoned or only one side must garrison. There was in many
areas no proper "front line" - trading was extensive even across the lines -
and "fronts" were a response to a major enemy presence rather than universal. The game
makes things look more like a conventional war than it should. The game system also
rewards both classical guerilla operations as well as classical counter insurgency operations:
doing things by the book tends to work. We cannot get much better than that.
The presence of many locations which generate supplies and resources is a two edged sword.
They will feed either side. Some industry is lost and/or damaged when it changes hands
- but the reason places of economic significance are worth capturing is well modeled by this
property. Since China cannot feed its large forces without them, and since Japan would not
want any part of China unless it could export resources from it, it is better to model as
many of these locations and industries as possible.
China now appears to be messy - as it should. It tends to become a stalemate unless the
Japanese commit significantly more units to the area - which means they cannot be somewhere
else. China is inherently difficult to conquer - because of many units, many more urban
areas, many fortifications and potential fortifications - and because its ground and air
units have enough supplies and replacements to conduct operations and rebuild (if properly located).
One remarkable surprise is the movement of the Chinese aviation industry to Lao Wing just
before the war with the US begins. I feared this location would never be able to develop
for supply reasons. I started its factories as damaged - because they were generally not
functional - so they need repair to produce. But it turns out the location is astonishingly
able to feed industry and - if not captured early - it becomes what it was hoped to be IRL
- a source of replacement (repaired) and new aircraft. The mountains make it possible to
defend even against a major attack by 15th Army - but if not defended strongly the Japanese
can take this asset from China. If it starts producing virtually nothing, it will be
significant over time - if held and the factories are repaired up.
We also allow the local X-PO (a P-35 fighter bomber variant) to be produced at Kunming
- eventually - if you repair the factory (which in RHS is not allowed before the date the
aircraft becomes available - as with all aircraft factories. Since the Allies cannot change
what is produced at factories, we start their aircraft as damaged factories - and expand
them after the date they enter production - to model "ramp up" of production).
We have carefully modeled the Chinese Air Force - although in several cases a "model" of
aircraft represents two or even more different similar types. It is a mixture of different
types from different nations - but used carefully - provides an important dimension to
Chinese military operations. Recon and search permit a 'picture' of enemy locations.
Fighter and bombers may make selective offensive raids which are effective if they wage
a hit and run campaign, moving to a different base out of range after the offensive
operation to recover.
China should never be wholly occupied in RHS. If it is, it should be a dramatic and
expensive campaign, requiring major additional assets be sent into the theater by Japan.
Since Sinkiang (and its neighbor to the Southeast) are Soviet territory - that either
prevents Japanese penetration into the area or it brings the Russians actively into the war.
[That, by itself, probably guarantees early Allied victory.] The most difficult area to
conquer is probably Kunming - which was the location Chiang selected as the national fall
back position if Chunking fell. Even heavy industry will produce to some extent (unless
captured or damaged by bombers - there is local "power" for it to a limited degree
- modeling the oldest hydro project in China).
Making China Stronger (Report)
Please post here for questions and discussion about scenario design, art and sound modding and the game editor for WITP Admiral's Edition.
Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition
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el cid again
- Posts: 16984
- Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 4:40 pm
- RogerJNeilson
- Posts: 1277
- Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:21 am
- Location: Bedlington, Northumberland, UK
RE: Making China Stronger (Report)
Post by RogerJNeilson »
As one who is firmly in the 'its a simulation' camp and not 'its a game' I have to say that this all seems to give a much more likely look to the melting pot of China.
Would be great to try this out when I get some time from my three current games.
Great work.
Roger
Would be great to try this out when I get some time from my three current games.
Great work.
Roger
An unplanned dynasty: Roger Neilson, Roger Neilson 11, Roger Neilson 3 previous posts 898+1515 + 1126 = 3539.....Finally completed my game which started the day WITP:AE was released
-
Mac Linehan
- Posts: 1519
- Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2004 9:08 pm
- Location: Denver Colorado
RE: Making China Stronger (Report)
Post by Mac Linehan »
Cid -
I have read about your extensive treatment of China, and am very interested in seeing your mod. It was my privilege to see an early RHS version in 2010; I know, from your posts, that it has evolved greatly.
Mac
I have read about your extensive treatment of China, and am very interested in seeing your mod. It was my privilege to see an early RHS version in 2010; I know, from your posts, that it has evolved greatly.
Mac
LAV-25 2147
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