AE Land and AI Issues [OUTDATED]

[Blackhorse]

ORIGINAL: Warrant officer 0/0

? about a TOE upgrade for the US 102nd (sep.) regiment: It lists
17 T14 light tanks. I believe these are supposed to be converted
Dutch tanks,right? I do not see them listed in the pool.
WO 0/0

Yes, these are tankettes originally built for the Netherlands for the DEI, then diverted to US units after the DEI fell. Officially, these were Marmon-Herrington CTLS-4TAYs and CTLS-4TACs (TAYs had turrets on the right front, TACs on the left front, but were otherwise identical) but known as the T-14 in US service. Historically, they were mostly used for training or in Alaska (see pic below). A few were found in the South Pacific and Australia.

The US gets 200 T14s in the pool in April, 1942. Some of the Separate Infantry Regiments have a TO&E upgrade that month; each regiment can receive 17 T14s.

There is no production. Once they're gone, they're gone. I don't think you will miss them too much.

[JeffroK]

The Australian Army used them as training tanks in the Armoured Regiments but I believe some were deployed to Merauke and attached to 62 Bn for a short time.

[witpqs]

They look useful for beer runs.

[JeffroK]

I dont think they would hold enough for more than the crew!

[Stvitus2002]

Where did you find that photo?

I can see the T14 listed in the database, but it does not
appear in the pool list. It's not a big issue,if,like you say,
we get 200 in 4/42,as i am at 2/43.
Just trying to figure out where they went.


WO 0/0

[Blackhorse]

ORIGINAL: Warrant officer 0/0

Where did you find that photo?

I can see the T14 listed in the database, but it does not
appear in the pool list. It's not a big issue,if,like you say,
we get 200 in 4/42,as i am at 2/43.
Just trying to figure out where they went.


WO 0/0

The photo can be found in several places on the internet. Here's one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Marmo ... 09169u.jpg

I don't know what causes a device to show up on the pool list, or not. I'm sorry I can't help you there.

[Reg]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

They look useful for beer runs.

You have to put them in context. They were comparable to anything the Japanese had at the time.... (though I certainly wouldn't have taken them to Europe).

[LargeSlowTarget]

Am tinkering around with the China map and OOB. Found some maps showing that the entire east bank of the lower Yellow River had been occupied by the Japanese from Haichow up to Tsiaotso (hex 88,42) by 1941. But in stock, two bases on the east bank are still in Chinese hands - Tsiaotso and Kweiteh (90,46). Also found bits of info via google pointing to the fact that both cities were Japanese-occupied. Am looking for more info about unit locations in the area, esp. the Japanese troops at Tsiaotso.

[BigDuke66]

Scenario 001 Full Campaign:
Please check the M10 Wolverine TD, first I wonder if the start of production in June 43 is OK as I read that it already started in June 42 besides that there is a TD unit that comes already equipped with M10s in May 42 the 632nd Tank Destroyer Battalion ID 5136.

[wdolson]

There are a number of planes and devices that were in production for some time before any were sent to the Pacific. Some also stop getting sent to the Pacific, but remain in production. For example the B-17 discontinues in 1942 and you don't get B-17G again until 1945. All production was going to Europe until VE Day.

The M-10 was in production, but all went to Europe and the Med until the numbers got high enough in theater and a few were allowed to go to the Pacific. The M-4 Sherman first saw combat in October 1942, but it didn't see any action in the Pacific until the Tarawa invasion in November 1943 where only 14 were available. 5 of those were lost wading to the beach. More were lost in accidents with obstacles after landing.

The US tank allocations to the Pacific were particularly thin because Japanese armor was easily combated with older Allied tanks and it was rarely encountered. The terrain of most Pacific battles did not favor widespread use of tracked armor and all the most modern tanks and tank destroyers the US could produce were badly needed to fight the Germans who began employing tanks a generation newer than the Sherman in 1943 (a few in late 1942, but they began arriving on the battlefields in force in 1943).

Bill

[BigDuke66]

Thanks but it still wonders me why we get M10s before production officially started at all, as said the earliest date I find is June 1942 more seem to point to September 1942

[wdolson]

It appears to be an error. From what I can see, the 632nd did not get M-10s until early 1944. I think they were issued towed guns before that.

The first use of the M-10 in the Pacific was during the invasion of Kwajalein in January 1944. It sounds like June 43 might be a bit early.

Bill

[LargeSlowTarget]

Good find, BigDuke [:)]

There are at least four TD Bns which arrive in 1942 with a TOE of 1943/44: 632nd, 637th, 627th and 640th TD Bns

All have M-10 in 1942.

Furthermore, their TOE show 6x M8 Armored Car - but the M8 did enter serial production only in March 1943.

And they have 43 Recce Squads as well.

I have created a 41 TD Bn TOE which upgrades to the current (43) TOE.

The 41 TOE has 41 Recce Squads instead of the 43 variety, M3 75mm GMC Halftracks instead of M-10 and no M8s.

[BigDuke66]

Scenario 001 Full Campaign:
I think the 22nd (East African) Brigade comes much too early into the game.
Just check these links:
http://ww2db.com/battle_spec.php?battle_id=4
http://stonebooks.com/history/madagascar.shtml
http://homepages.force9.net/rothwell/22ea.htm
Especially the last and look under "Theater", seems to me that the unit didn't get into the South-Asian Theater before 10th July 1944 when it left for Ceylon.

At least it should get a restricted HQ so the player has to pay PP to get it and even than it should be available before the fighting on Madagascar is done.

[inqistor]

ORIGINAL: wdolson

It appears to be an error. From what I can see, the 632nd did not get M-10s until early 1944. I think they were issued towed guns before that.

The first use of the M-10 in the Pacific was during the invasion of Kwajalein in January 1944. It sounds like June 43 might be a bit early.

Bill

Yup, they were issued towed guns, although I am not sure I have seen OOB with SOLELY towed guns. I would have to check, but I do not recall any mid-replacements in OOB. It was either towed AT gun, or Tank Destroyer.

[JeffroK]

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

Scenario 001 Full Campaign:
I think the 22nd (East African) Brigade comes much too early into the game.
Just check these links:
http://ww2db.com/battle_spec.php?battle_id=4
http://stonebooks.com/history/madagascar.shtml
http://homepages.force9.net/rothwell/22ea.htm
Especially the last and look under "Theater", seems to me that the unit didn't get into the South-Asian Theater before 10th July 1944 when it left for Ceylon.

At least it should get a restricted HQ so the player has to pay PP to get it and even than it should be available before the fighting on Madagascar is done.

There is a problem in that the Brigade formed part of the Diego Suarez, Seychelles and Mauritius garrisons while being part of Islands Command which included Madagascar and was controlled from East Africa.
Should at least be restricted.

[LargeSlowTarget]

Something seems to be wrong with the location of the IJA 21st Division.

Stock and DBB have it at Shanghai at the start of the war.

So has Nierhorster's Orbat.

The US Army "green book" indicates the division was "en route" from China to Indochina:
"On 26 February, the day before Kitano's first group landed, a strong detachment from the 21st Division arrived in the Philippines. This force, led by Maj. Gen. Kameichiro Nagano, 21st Infantry group commander, and called the Nagano Detachment, numbered about 4,000 men and was composed of the group headquarters, the 62d Infantry, a battalion of mountain artillery, and a company of engineers. Nagano had been en route from China to French Indochina with the rest of the 21st Division when he had received the orders from Southern Army that sent him to the Philippines."

But I have found several references that the 21st Division started the war in Indochina.

1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

And I faintly remember that the original WitP had the division at Hanoi.

Does someone has definite information?

[JeffroK]

My file of useless information says;
21st Division
The 21st Division was raised in 1938 in Kanazawa, and was initially assigned to the Japanese 12th Army which was engaged in counter-insurgency in Northern China. Whilst in Northern China it took part in the Battle of South Shanxi, and fought against the Hundred Regiments Offensive. In 1942 it took part in the Philippines Campaign, landing at Lingayen Gulf on 26 February 1942. After the completion of the campaign in the Philippines, it was then shipped to Vietnam, where it served as the garrison for Hanoi under the Japanese 38th Army, and was used to crush the French in the Second French Indochina Campaign

[JeffroK]

The Fall of the Philippines has on page 55
Although the 21st, 33d and 56th Divisions were assigned to the Southern Army, they were still in North China, Central China and Kyushu, respectively, On 1 December 41.
Their departures from the above areas were 20 January 1942, 13 December 1941 and 16 February 1942, respectively.

[LargeSlowTarget]