Breakthrough. MrKane(J) vs JocMeister(A)
Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition
RE: It's a trap. MrKane(J) vs JocMeister(A)
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Mike McCreery
- Posts: 4361
- Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2013 2:58 pm
RE: It's a trap. MrKane(J) vs JocMeister(A)
wow.
How many turns back did you detect his fleet building up and did you have any idea all his carriers were in the area?
How many turns back did you detect his fleet building up and did you have any idea all his carriers were in the area?
The Commander's job is to orchestrate and direct the three major dimensions of combat - space, time and force. Shattered Sword, the Untold Story of the Battle of Midway
RE: It's a trap. MrKane(J) vs JocMeister(A)
I detected carriers 8 days ago. From that moment his fleet was track by patrol aircrafts.
Background:
I have noticed he likes to keep carriers 1-2 hex east of Pago Pago, each time I found his CVs he run towards Baker Island. This is why he lost Sara. So I decided set trap. KB was siting near Tabiteuea. And my subs were hunting around Pago Pago. And suddenly, Emily form Tabiteuea detected huge allied fleet 1 hex south of Baker Island. When I figured out he will land at Tabiteuea I decided intercept his carriers on way back to PH. I was counting that he will put cap down. He didn't. But I am still happy with result.
Background:
I have noticed he likes to keep carriers 1-2 hex east of Pago Pago, each time I found his CVs he run towards Baker Island. This is why he lost Sara. So I decided set trap. KB was siting near Tabiteuea. And my subs were hunting around Pago Pago. And suddenly, Emily form Tabiteuea detected huge allied fleet 1 hex south of Baker Island. When I figured out he will land at Tabiteuea I decided intercept his carriers on way back to PH. I was counting that he will put cap down. He didn't. But I am still happy with result.
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Mike McCreery
- Posts: 4361
- Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2013 2:58 pm
RE: It's a trap. MrKane(J) vs JocMeister(A)
ORIGINAL: MrKane
I detected carriers 8 days ago. From that moment his fleet was track by patrol aircrafts.
Background:
I have noticed he likes to keep carriers 1-2 hex east of Pago Pago, each time I found his CVs he run towards Baker Island. This is why he lost Sara. So I decided set trap. KB was siting near Tabiteuea. And my subs were hunting around Pago Pago. And suddenly, Emily form Tabiteuea detected huge allied fleet 1 hex south of Baker Island. When I figured out he will land at Tabiteuea I decided intercept his carriers on way back to PH. I was counting that he will put cap down. He didn't. But I am still happy with result.
Could you expand upon the general strategic mistakes your opponent made? You seem to be an excellent player and I find that you win inside the heads of your opponents as much if not even more than on the battlefield ;]
RE: It's a trap. MrKane(J) vs JocMeister(A)
Yes, from day 1 when you sank the Prince of Wales you seemed to be always two steps ahead of the Allies...
but then if you were tracking his ships for 8 days I am stunned that he went ahead with the operation.
Masterful game! Congratulations.[&o]
[&o][&o][&o]
but then if you were tracking his ships for 8 days I am stunned that he went ahead with the operation.
Masterful game! Congratulations.[&o]
[&o][&o][&o]
RE: It's a trap. MrKane(J) vs JocMeister(A)
ORIGINAL: Lowpe
Yes, from day 1 when you sank the Prince of Wales you seemed to be always two steps ahead of the Allies...
but then if you were tracking his ships for 8 days I am stunned that he went ahead with the operation.
Masterful game! Congratulations.[&o]
[&o][&o][&o]
Thanks. He had two landings to cover. However I have no clue why he took such risk right now.
RE: It's a trap. MrKane(J) vs JocMeister(A)
ORIGINAL: MrKane
Thanks. He had two landings to cover. However I have no clue why he took such risk right now.
Auto victory was very much on his mind...
RE: It's a trap. MrKane(J) vs JocMeister(A)
And there was intel to suggest that part of the KB was returning for upgrades because of a SigInt report of a CV fleet.ORIGINAL: Lowpe
ORIGINAL: MrKane
Thanks. He had two landings to cover. However I have no clue why he took such risk right now.
Auto victory was very much on his mind...
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Bullwinkle58
- Posts: 11297
- Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:47 pm
RE: It's a trap. MrKane(J) vs JocMeister(A)
ORIGINAL: MrKane
ORIGINAL: Lowpe
Yes, from day 1 when you sank the Prince of Wales you seemed to be always two steps ahead of the Allies...
but then if you were tracking his ships for 8 days I am stunned that he went ahead with the operation.
Masterful game! Congratulations.[&o]
[&o][&o][&o]
Thanks. He had two landings to cover. However I have no clue why he took such risk right now.
Will you provide him your password so he can re-run the turns to see what you saw?
The Moose
RE: It's a trap. MrKane(J) vs JocMeister(A)
Congrats, well played, a masterful effort.
How did you get the A6m5s so early? They went through him like a knife through hot butter
How did you get the A6m5s so early? They went through him like a knife through hot butter
RE: It's a trap. MrKane(J) vs JocMeister(A)
ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
ORIGINAL: MrKane
ORIGINAL: Lowpe
Yes, from day 1 when you sank the Prince of Wales you seemed to be always two steps ahead of the Allies...
but then if you were tracking his ships for 8 days I am stunned that he went ahead with the operation.
Masterful game! Congratulations.[&o]
[&o][&o][&o]
Thanks. He had two landings to cover. However I have no clue why he took such risk right now.
Will you provide him your password so he can re-run the turns to see what you saw?
I would be interested in seeing the settings on both sides for that CV battle. It was very lopsided, so I'm wondering how much was sheer bad luck for the Allies.
RE: It's a trap. MrKane(J) vs JocMeister(A)
Great play Tom![&o]
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MrBlizzard
- Posts: 636
- Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:34 pm
- Location: Italy
RE: It's a trap. MrKane(J) vs JocMeister(A)
This is another masterpiece Tom! Really impressive, you were waiting for him at Tabiteuea...[X(] It's a reverse Midway! It's like Japan broke Allied secret code [8D].
You brought everything, it seems Jocke didn't use some CVEs so you had the double of his planes. It seems also he had few fighters compared to his bombers so he was badly outnumbered both in defence and in offence.
Very well played, congrats again [8D]
You brought everything, it seems Jocke didn't use some CVEs so you had the double of his planes. It seems also he had few fighters compared to his bombers so he was badly outnumbered both in defence and in offence.
Very well played, congrats again [8D]
Blizzard
RE: It's a trap. MrKane(J) vs JocMeister(A)
Congratulations
, but a shame that it came to a sudden end.
I think you applied the opening I used against you with far better operational and strategic acumen than I could manage.
, but a shame that it came to a sudden end.I think you applied the opening I used against you with far better operational and strategic acumen
than I could manage.
RE: It's a trap. MrKane(J) vs JocMeister(A)
As an Allied player it's time to learn some lessons from this disaster. I will let other people rant about getting the A6M5 so fast, or this or that. As an AFB I need to focus on the piratical how did it happen and what do I do to avoid it.
Before I start this is in no way a criticism of either player and some of items below may or may not have been done (some of the could also be just dumb [;)]). It is an honest attempt to learn as an aggressive Allied player. I don't want to sit until the Hellcat and Essex arrive and do nothing major. First off where is the fun for either side and it just does not "feel" WW2 like for the Allies to hide for 20 months.
1) Need PBY Coverage along your line of withdraw, Baker Island in this case.
2) Fall back to a point with Fighter coverage, 75 P-40E/P-39D at Baker Island would have allowed him to pull back to fighter cover if the PBY spotted the Japanese fleet. Not guaranteed to spot him but it gives you options and this game is all about options.
3) Fighting the Entire Japanese CV + CVE Fleet without your CVE/CVLs puts you at a major disadvantage. If the Hermes and the two CVE's were present it would have added another sixty-four fighters.
4) After the Fighter units on your American CVs expand to 36, make sure to split the Marine Fighter ACU and put 2/3 of a ACU on each of the big carriers for more fighters. If you still have all five of the big US carriers this adds 60 additional fighters.
5) Never withdraw or advance from the same point more than once (in the case Pago Pago to Baker Island) unless you cover it with the PBY's and fighters as noted above. That is a very good catch by Mr. Kane, I bet his a good poker player as well.[:D]
6) The A6M5 is very bad news, even worse if he has more fighter than you.
7) Always assume: It's A Trap...., it will remain a trap until the fleet is back at anchor in Peal as the Japaneses player is better than you and knows exactly what you are going to do and when. [:D]
Before I start this is in no way a criticism of either player and some of items below may or may not have been done (some of the could also be just dumb [;)]). It is an honest attempt to learn as an aggressive Allied player. I don't want to sit until the Hellcat and Essex arrive and do nothing major. First off where is the fun for either side and it just does not "feel" WW2 like for the Allies to hide for 20 months.
1) Need PBY Coverage along your line of withdraw, Baker Island in this case.
2) Fall back to a point with Fighter coverage, 75 P-40E/P-39D at Baker Island would have allowed him to pull back to fighter cover if the PBY spotted the Japanese fleet. Not guaranteed to spot him but it gives you options and this game is all about options.
3) Fighting the Entire Japanese CV + CVE Fleet without your CVE/CVLs puts you at a major disadvantage. If the Hermes and the two CVE's were present it would have added another sixty-four fighters.
4) After the Fighter units on your American CVs expand to 36, make sure to split the Marine Fighter ACU and put 2/3 of a ACU on each of the big carriers for more fighters. If you still have all five of the big US carriers this adds 60 additional fighters.
5) Never withdraw or advance from the same point more than once (in the case Pago Pago to Baker Island) unless you cover it with the PBY's and fighters as noted above. That is a very good catch by Mr. Kane, I bet his a good poker player as well.[:D]
6) The A6M5 is very bad news, even worse if he has more fighter than you.
7) Always assume: It's A Trap...., it will remain a trap until the fleet is back at anchor in Peal as the Japaneses player is better than you and knows exactly what you are going to do and when. [:D]
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Rook749
AAR: This will End Badly @ tm.asp?m=3516510&mpage=1&key=, tm.asp?m=4074294 &
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 5&t=362017
AAR: This will End Badly @ tm.asp?m=3516510&mpage=1&key=, tm.asp?m=4074294 &
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 5&t=362017
RE: It's a trap. MrKane(J) vs JocMeister(A)
Here is a few information, before we start discus about black magic 
1) Fleet composition
- CarDiv 1 & 2, 3 CV, 1-2 CVL + 2 - 3 BB + 3 - 4 CA + 8 - 10 DD, AAA value over 10K each ( AAA did great job )
fighters escort with CAP 30%, TB&DB: navy, mission search 0%
- CarDiv 3 one hex behind CarDiv 1 & 2, two slow CV + 3 CVE + 3 CS + 6 DD,
fighters LRCAP over CarDiv1, DB Search 100%, 60 Jake search 100% with 180 degree cover in direction where Jocke's fleet, All combat ships Jake search 100% at night.
- Forward cover 9 DD divided by 3, to attract his search planes.
- All carrier Captains were with Navy skill 70, other ships all over 60.
- All fighter pilots experience 70+, Air&Def Skill 70+
- All Bombers pilots experience 60-70, bombing/torpedo/asw/def skills 70+
- No single rookie on my carriers
- Bombers leaders Navy skill 60+, Air 60+, Inspiration 60+
- Fighters leaders Inspiration 65+, Air 65-75
- My squadrons leaders do not fly sorties, so I am not loosing 90% of then each mission. ( squadron reserve )
- All CAP set to 15k alt
- DB set to 15k alt
- TB set to 6k alt
2) Airframes
- Yes I know that A6M5 is better, but during combat I did not notice any difference. My A6M2 did job even better ( maybe LRCAP ? ).
3) Battle
- 15k alt gives my fighters dive bonus in both cases,
- superior numbers are superior numbers
- he send 40 fighters to protect APs 3 hex from his CVs, 20 were lost, rest return damaged during morning phase
- my cap did very poor job, 60+ fighters only get to his bombers and they shot down only 46 DB and few TB, rear gun on TBF,SBD-3 did very well, over 50% attacking fighters were force to break attack
- on other hand 20 Wildcats get to my bombers and I lost over 50
- 29min Radar warning let my Zeros get altitude over incoming strike, dive bonus still rule
All others aspect are connected to game magic random numbers lottery.
1) Fleet composition
- CarDiv 1 & 2, 3 CV, 1-2 CVL + 2 - 3 BB + 3 - 4 CA + 8 - 10 DD, AAA value over 10K each ( AAA did great job )
fighters escort with CAP 30%, TB&DB: navy, mission search 0%
- CarDiv 3 one hex behind CarDiv 1 & 2, two slow CV + 3 CVE + 3 CS + 6 DD,
fighters LRCAP over CarDiv1, DB Search 100%, 60 Jake search 100% with 180 degree cover in direction where Jocke's fleet, All combat ships Jake search 100% at night.
- Forward cover 9 DD divided by 3, to attract his search planes.
- All carrier Captains were with Navy skill 70, other ships all over 60.
- All fighter pilots experience 70+, Air&Def Skill 70+
- All Bombers pilots experience 60-70, bombing/torpedo/asw/def skills 70+
- No single rookie on my carriers
- Bombers leaders Navy skill 60+, Air 60+, Inspiration 60+
- Fighters leaders Inspiration 65+, Air 65-75
- My squadrons leaders do not fly sorties, so I am not loosing 90% of then each mission. ( squadron reserve )
- All CAP set to 15k alt
- DB set to 15k alt
- TB set to 6k alt
2) Airframes
- Yes I know that A6M5 is better, but during combat I did not notice any difference. My A6M2 did job even better ( maybe LRCAP ? ).
3) Battle
- 15k alt gives my fighters dive bonus in both cases,
- superior numbers are superior numbers
- he send 40 fighters to protect APs 3 hex from his CVs, 20 were lost, rest return damaged during morning phase
- my cap did very poor job, 60+ fighters only get to his bombers and they shot down only 46 DB and few TB, rear gun on TBF,SBD-3 did very well, over 50% attacking fighters were force to break attack
- on other hand 20 Wildcats get to my bombers and I lost over 50
- 29min Radar warning let my Zeros get altitude over incoming strike, dive bonus still rule
All others aspect are connected to game magic random numbers lottery.
RE: It's a trap. MrKane(J) vs JocMeister(A)
ORIGINAL: Sangeli
And there was intel to suggest that part of the KB was returning for upgrades because of a SigInt report of a CV fleet.ORIGINAL: Lowpe
ORIGINAL: MrKane
Thanks. He had two landings to cover. However I have no clue why he took such risk right now.
Auto victory was very much on his mind...
Intel ?. I am assuming this is information base on Jocke AAR. If yes please keep it for yourself.
There is still chance that game will be continued.
RE: It's a trap. MrKane(J) vs JocMeister(A)
ORIGINAL: MrKane
Here is a few information, before we start discus about black magic
But black magic is a much cooler solution......
Rook749
AAR: This will End Badly @ tm.asp?m=3516510&mpage=1&key=, tm.asp?m=4074294 &
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 5&t=362017
AAR: This will End Badly @ tm.asp?m=3516510&mpage=1&key=, tm.asp?m=4074294 &
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 5&t=362017
RE: It's a trap. MrKane(J) vs JocMeister(A)
There's no black magic there.
Japan had superior quality, superior numbers and superior tactical position. Not a surprise the overall result.
The allied SDBs aren't borked at all in 1942. It's just a matter of different factors. As someone else has pointed out, if the Escort does its job (keeping the fighters at bay), the allied SDBs can sink the whole KB. But if the escort isn't good enough (here the number of F4Fs on escort was too small)the CAp will simply ruin the aim of the SDB.
Also weather normally has a big part in these battles and luck too.
Don't understand, really, why are you all surprised by this result.
Honestly Joc shouldn't have dared so much in this strategic situation.
We've all gone through these results in our witp career. We know it.
Good Play on Tom's part here! Kudos!
Japan had superior quality, superior numbers and superior tactical position. Not a surprise the overall result.
The allied SDBs aren't borked at all in 1942. It's just a matter of different factors. As someone else has pointed out, if the Escort does its job (keeping the fighters at bay), the allied SDBs can sink the whole KB. But if the escort isn't good enough (here the number of F4Fs on escort was too small)the CAp will simply ruin the aim of the SDB.
Also weather normally has a big part in these battles and luck too.
Don't understand, really, why are you all surprised by this result.
Honestly Joc shouldn't have dared so much in this strategic situation.
We've all gone through these results in our witp career. We know it.
Good Play on Tom's part here! Kudos!