YouTube Collaborative Series

[Cauldyth]

Plus, everyone should be using the Extended mod, it's just that good! I use it, but still consider myself to be playing vanilla. [;)]

[Icemania]

ORIGINAL: StarLab

ORIGINAL: Cauldyth
One of the great advantages of these sorts of Let's Plays, apart from their sheer entertainment value, is that they can help show us poorer players how we can play better. The use of mods that alter the actual balance, like the AI Improvement mod does, means the lessons learned aren't applicable to those of us who prefer to play the vanilla game.

My channel gets a lot of new players to the game. I try not to go too nuts on mods as most of the new people are trying to get a grasp on the core game itself. The Extended Mod is perfect because, as you said, it doesn't alter any of the core mechanics - any tips or techniques translate perfectly from this mod to vanilla games. [8D]

Fair enough. One clarification though, the AI Improvement Mod does little to change the mechanics for a human player (unless you count a few small changes to the Tech Tree). What it does is improve the AI. More powerful ships. More focused researched. Better exploration etc. So it may require a human player to adjust their strategy. For example it's far more difficult to use mass Wonders because the AI actually targets them. But should mass Wonders have been possible in the first place?

The best pitch I can provide is that you'll have cooler battles with the Improved AI in the videos. The screenshots at the bottom of this post all have aspects you will never see with Vanilla.

Anyway, the videos are great, cheers.

[StarLab]

ORIGINAL: Icemania

ORIGINAL: StarLab

ORIGINAL: Cauldyth
One of the great advantages of these sorts of Let's Plays, apart from their sheer entertainment value, is that they can help show us poorer players how we can play better. The use of mods that alter the actual balance, like the AI Improvement mod does, means the lessons learned aren't applicable to those of us who prefer to play the vanilla game.

My channel gets a lot of new players to the game. I try not to go too nuts on mods as most of the new people are trying to get a grasp on the core game itself. The Extended Mod is perfect because, as you said, it doesn't alter any of the core mechanics - any tips or techniques translate perfectly from this mod to vanilla games. [8D]

Fair enough. One clarification though, the AI Improvement Mod does little to change the mechanics for a human player (unless you count a few small changes to the Tech Tree). What it does is improve the AI. More powerful ships. More focused researched. Better exploration etc. So it may require a human player to adjust their strategy. For example it's far more difficult to use mass Wonders because the AI actually targets them. But should mass Wonders have been possible in the first place?

The best pitch I can provide is that you'll have cooler battles with the Improved AI in the videos. The screenshots at the bottom of this post all have aspects you will never see with Vanilla.

Anyway, the videos are great, cheers.

I've played your mod recently and I certainly get my butt kicked and handed back to me more often than not. [:D] Good job there! [8D]

[Cauldyth]

Not to derail this thread too much, but I actually prefer the somewhat unbalanced tech tree of the vanilla game. I like that some weapon paths are suboptimal, and that some races are hardwired to follow those paths anyway. I like that, as a result, certain races will often end up being easy prey for certain other races. It adds some nice asymmetry to the game.

Increasing the difficulty can then be a simple matter of playing one of those disadvantaged races (and committing to following their tech preferences), or allying with one of them and trying to keep them afloat, etc. Paradox games have convinced me of the merits of unbalanced games.

A "pure" AI mod that just optimizes the AI within the existing framework would be very welcome, but I suspect there aren't a lot of people that agree with me. [;)]

[johanwanderer]

ORIGINAL: Cauldyth
...
A "pure" AI mod that just optimizes the AI within the existing framework would be very welcome, but I suspect there aren't a lot of people that agree with me. [;)]

... which is why we have lots and lots of Mods to choose from. Choose being the operative word

[Antiscamp]

ORIGINAL: Cauldyth

Not to derail this thread too much, but I actually prefer the somewhat unbalanced tech tree of the vanilla game. I like that some weapon paths are suboptimal, and that some races are hardwired to follow those paths anyway. I like that, as a result, certain races will often end up being easy prey for certain other races. It adds some nice asymmetry to the game.

Increasing the difficulty can then be a simple matter of playing one of those disadvantaged races (and committing to following their tech preferences), or allying with one of them and trying to keep them afloat, etc. Paradox games have convinced me of the merits of unbalanced games.

A "pure" AI mod that just optimizes the AI within the existing framework would be very welcome, but I suspect there aren't a lot of people that agree with me. [;)]

I agree. I think the assymetry (that's a great word for it!) and lack of balance between the empires is really interesting and really creates a game that's not just about winning and doing the world conquest thing like in Civilization, but also about enjoying all the little things that are going on all around. Back in the day I created a mod for Civilization 4, "Fairy Tale", where I tried to play on this assymetry and apply it to Civ4. I made some civs really overpowered and some very weak and hard to play. It created some really interesting games where sometimes, those weak civs could actually surprise and become mega powers. Then I also found the Paradox games and, well, Distant Worlds as well. Distant Worlds does this assymetry the absolute best.

[Icemania]

ORIGINAL: Cauldyth
Not to derail this thread too much, but I actually prefer the somewhat unbalanced tech tree of the vanilla game. I like that some weapon paths are suboptimal, and that some races are hardwired to follow those paths anyway. I like that, as a result, certain races will often end up being easy prey for certain other races. It adds some nice asymmetry to the game.

Increasing the difficulty can then be a simple matter of playing one of those disadvantaged races (and committing to following their tech preferences), or allying with one of them and trying to keep them afloat, etc. Paradox games have convinced me of the merits of unbalanced games.

A "pure" AI mod that just optimizes the AI within the existing framework would be very welcome, but I suspect there aren't a lot of people that agree with me. [;)]

It's a question of degree.

Even with the weapon balancing some paths remain sub-optimal. Rail Guns are an example, they become very weak late game and in mid-game it's a slog. But I didn't want them to be so far out of balance that some weapons were essentially useless throughout the entire game. Part of the idea was to use more of the Tech Tree in-game. In Vanilla, just a couple of weapons dominate the landscape and a number of weapons are extremely rarely used. They put the effort in to develop all these weapons so personally I'd like see them used!

With Energy Research, every race follows the Vanilla theme (e.g. Efficiency/Power/Balanced/Speed), just with a better research focus ... even if it's sub-optimal for that weapon/race.

So if you consider the races in the Extended AI Improvement Mod that use Torpedoes:

1. Some use Point Blank tactics while others use All Weapons tactics
2. There is a mix of Efficiency/Power/Balanced/Speed research focus
3. Some mix with Fighters/Bombers
4. Some never flee while others flee at 20% Shields
5. Some do more Weapons Research while others do more High Tech Research
6. Some focus on Science Wonders / Academies and others apply a mix of other approaches

If I was going for fully optimal there would not be enhanced variety in the races using exactly the same weapon.

Now if you want to apply Vanilla Weapons damage, that is trivial, just reverse the changes in Research.txt and Components.txt as specified in the Weapons Balancing thread.

Happy to continue this in the AI Improvement Mod thread.

[Tophat1815]

What you all said..............[:D]

So DAS what are you going to do next? and who is the next returning guest?

[Blackstork]

Want to put my five cents in. I am watching your game and i like series very much.

1. Icemania's AI mod is must have. I really cant imagine game without it right now, so much improvement it brings. It does not gamechanging changes - the tactics are same, just it places right things in right places. If you want to show really challenging gameplay to subscribers you should try AI mod. Its not a mod, its semi-official upgrade patch. I myself will be much more interested in your series if it will contain AI mod upgrade at least, its optimization of totally uneffective vanilla AI, and big upgrade to challenge and replayability of the game.
2. The vanilla game is ok and so, but its been around for long, and there are really complex and nice projects going around. Even with them gameplay may alter abit, but the principals of DW:U engine will remain the same. Exposuring modded content of DW:U will do good both for:
- DW:U as a game - people will see that there aviable improvements, more polished art, more diverse content aviable, and that is actually one of big additional values to the game - and many potential buyers do not realize it
- for mods and modders who develop really complex content which really improves the game/game's experience by unmeasurable amount (even if they change things, i think the best "good" thing the streamers could do to the DW/DW community is to show how diverse/different this game is, and how creative its modding community is, showcasing different mods.)
- to themselves since they will interest Trekkies if they will stream StarTrek mod, WH fans if they stream WH mod, fans of Diversification and ultimate immersive experience if they will stream future megamod we working on, and such showcases may bring more buyers/people to the game, which wont be something of interest for them by default in its vanilla state.

Cheers!

[Tophat1815]

Is Das on vacation or have his computer problems not been resolved? Haven't seen him around for 10 days or so.

[StarLab]

ORIGINAL: Tophat1812


Is Das on vacation or have his computer problems not been resolved? Haven't seen him around for 10 days or so.

I understand he's quite busy. We should see something from him soon, I would imagine...

[Tophat1815]

Thanks Larry! Great series you guys have going here.

[Cauldyth]

Das is still quite active on his youtube channel. I've been watching his Dwarf Fortress and Worlds of Magic videos lately.

[vmxa_slith]

He has been posting other games, World of Magic and Dwarf Fortress.

[Cauldyth]

Nice little editorial video by Das, including a mention of why the Distant Worlds series has been delayed a bit (he's busy with volunteer work):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-6ZqIToA9k&list=UUHJM-Vd74Egk1xvGp4BHWBA

[Tophat1815]

Ah,that explains it. Real life tends to catch up to everyone and spare time runs short for all of us. And what he is doing is important and I wish him success and i hope they have a safe surf season.

[StarLab]

I just noticed this. Haven't watched yet, but here is the link to the next episode. [:)]

Distant Worlds Collaborative ~ Year 29 Part 1 ~ State of the Empire

[StarLab]

And here is part 2 of Year 29... (I still need to watch part 1 [:-])

Distant Worlds Collaborative ~ Year 29 Part 2 ~ Fleet Management

[StarLab]

Man! I really gotta watch these... Here's part 3 of Year 29

Distant Worlds Collaborative ~ Year 29 Part 3 ~ The Humans Attack

[Tophat1815]

Looks like its going to be a 4 part year. Should be titled "Humans strike back"........some nasty fleets there. Old line from a Henry Fonda movie: "A man worth shooting is a man worth killing." Basically a call for no "half measures" if you are going to do something do it. think the Keskudon's are guilty of not handling business with the humans. But with rule by committee and having an inexperienced guest player there was no real way this was going to be perfect. And the story you all have helped build has been great,shows many features of the game and has been a wonderful effort.

Only 7 game years left?