Command HQ prep

[Chris21wen]

Thanks Alfred

[Gaspote]

Thanks Alfred, I understand better the use of command HQ now.

[Mike McCreery]

Alfred,

Per #3 above in your flow chart

3. If more than one Corps HQ is within range, the levels and targets of the additional Corps HQs are not checked.

It seems from your description that luck would be the deciding factor in what HQ and thus HQ prep would be used if multiple Corps HQ's with varying prep levels were within range of an LCU.

Is there some other determining factor such as highest prep level?

I guess the question is mostly moot since it would not make much sense to have multiple HQ's prepped for the same target within range of that target (unless you were worried about one or more of them not making it AKA amphibious assault).

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: Wargmr

Alfred,

Per #3 above in your flow chart

3. If more than one Corps HQ is within range, the levels and targets of the additional Corps HQs are not checked.

It seems from your description that luck would be the deciding factor in what HQ and thus HQ prep would be used if multiple Corps HQ's with varying prep levels were within range of an LCU.

Is there some other determining factor such as highest prep level?

I guess the question is mostly moot since it would not make much sense to have multiple HQ's prepped for the same target within range of that target (unless you were worried about one or more of them not making it AKA amphibious assault).

(a) Luck will play no part. There are various criteria (commander rating, distance proximity, prep level, chain of command to name a few) which could be used singly or with weighting in the algorithm to find the first HQ but that level of detail is never disclosed by the devs.

(b) Range is between the units; it is not range to target.

(c) Your concern re amphibious assault is not valid as an HQ "not making it" is a meaningless concept in AE.

(d) Amphibious assaults are greatly assisted by having an Amphibious HQ and AGC ships involved. Combat bonus are not associated with them hence why not covered in this thread. Besides you won't get that infrastructure until 1943. Quite a few threads deal exclusively with amphibious assaults.

(e) Just how many HQs do you really think you have. Outside of the Chinese army, in 1942 (and you are not even halfway through 1942 in your AAR) you simply do not have sufficient HQs to prep for every possible target. You are left with no alternative but to have some LCUs prepping by themselves with no assistance from HQ prep point levels.

Alfred

[Yaab]

This is a great thread for understanding HQ bonuses, but I see no proof that the command HQ bonus applies in defensive battles. The wording on page 178 in the manual explicitly mentions attack only. Thus, does anyone have any combat reports from their defensive battles, where the jump in AV value can be attributed to command HQ bonus?

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: Yaab

This is a great thread for understanding HQ bonuses, but I see no proof that the command HQ bonus applies in defensive battles. The wording on page 178 in the manual explicitly mentions attack only. Thus, does anyone have any combat reports from their defensive battles, where the jump in AV value can be attributed to command HQ bonus?

Another recent occasion when I have to point out that something either written by me or in the manual has been given an erroneous interpretation. on the most superficial of readings.

If you are that keen to find fault with what I write, you need to do your homework properly. I certainly do when I write detailed explanations. So the first thing you should have done was not assume that I had not read nor understood page 178 of the manual. In fact this subject was one of those where my homework took several hours as the entire picture is not contained just on page 178.

1. The word "attack" means what? One has to trawl through several sections of the manual to understand what the word "attack" means. I am not inclined at the moment to expend the effort to bundle up in a simple picnic basket what "attack" means in this game in this context.

2. If you had not been so blinded with trying to find a fault with what I wrote, you would have noticed that even on page 178 of the manual, in listing the benefits provided by Army and Corps HQs, it explicitly states "whether attacking or defending". Rather difficult to sustain your assertion, don't you think. So I won't bother with what page 187 of the manual states.

3. Unless one has access to the code when running the turn resolution, it is impossible to quarantine the results. You can't quantify the actual bonus when on the offensive, so how do you think it can be quantified when on the offensive. And 99&% of all sandbox tests conducted by forumites are just vanity testing, of zero value for determining the sort of thing you are interested in.

Time and time again you attempt to reverse engineer the algorithms and on every occasion it is demonstrated that it is a fools errand. Frankly I don't know why you bother with this game as it is so obvious you just want to play a giant Excel spread sheet where 100% of the time the end result of every single action is known in advance.

War is a risky and messy business. The abstractions of this game do a very good job of capturing that element. It is simply not possible to play this game without exposing one's ego to the realisation that the plan/action ordered will not turn out 100% as predicted.

Alfred

[Yaab]

You are right that manual p.178 uses "attacking and defending" for corps/army HQ and their 10% bonuses, but for command HQ it says, I quote:

"If there is a Corps HQ within range of the battle, and the Command HQ is within 2 times its command
range of the battle, it can add up to an additional 90% bonus to the Assault Value of an attacking force for odds calculations."

Now, if the manual had said "attacking/defending force", then I wouldn't be asking this question now. The topic is important because we don't have many command HQ/corps HQ combos in the game to use them casually across the map. As the Allies on December 7, I have just one command HQ ( Pacific Fleet) that starts unrestricted and is ready to go anywhere and assist with the bonus.

I just find the manual ambiguous on this issue, that's all.

[bigred]

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Answers to the follow up questions.

1.  The change log #77 from patch 1 was worded clumsily.  It is not to be inferred that the Chain of Command must be followed.  The "its HQs" was meant to mean the applicable HQs which are within range of the LCU and intended to assist.

2.  Defenders can also gain the combat bonus.  This means that when defending a base, even units with no attacking assault value devices should still have the base as their objective because when defending support type squads are counted as having an assault value of 1/10 for odds calculations.

3.  Being 100% prepped for an objective is not in itself a 100% guarantee that the combat bonuses will be present.  Leader ratings also modify the availability and quantum of combat bonuses received.  A Command HQ can give a combat bonus within the range of 0% to 90%.  A Corps HQ can give a combat bonus within the range of 0% to 10%.  Having both Command and Corps HQs within range and at 100% prepped value, can give a combat bonus within the range 0% to 100%.

4.  In determining whether the HQs may provide a combat bonus, both the level and target of the HQ objective is checked.  See BigJ62's last post in this thread

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2223071&mpage=1&key=objective�

which is the only reference from a dev I have ever tracked down which expands on what the manual states on page 178.

5.  In practical terms, where time is not critical, the desirable prepped thresholds are:

for an atoll invasion - 100%, although anything above 80% might be OK if the landing troops have minimal disruption and the defenders are badly disrupted/fatigued etc
for land combat not in base - anything as objectives do not apply outside of base hexes
for land combat in a base - ideally 100% but anything above 50% will probably be of some value


The closer to 100% prepped for LCU and applicable HQs, the better it is.  However any level below 30 is almost guaranteed to be of no value.

Alfred

What is the effect of the American 6th army? It has a range of 5. I wondered if it acts as a surrogate command hq. Giving the allies an extra command HQ to pick targets.

edit--I finished the tread and an answer has been given.

[LeeChard]

Sort of a spinoff question.
How do you handle Combat HQ prep when your army is moving fast?
EI I am chasing the Japanese up Burma road and I'm moving base to base much faster than my prep time will allow?

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Ranger5355

Sort of a spinoff question.
How do you handle Combat HQ prep when your army is moving fast?
EI I am chasing the Japanese up Burma road and I'm moving base to base much faster than my prep time will allow?

You only need prep time for two (or three) things:

1) Amphibious landings
2) Defending
Possible 3) Negating your opponent's #2

You will never see a "preparation (+)" in the combat report, only "preparation (-)". That (-) occurs when the attacker's preparation is higher than the defenders.

If you are moving so quickly that you aren't prepped for the next base, then your opponent probably isn't prepped either. In a land war, prep isn't that important. It does make a difference in a small way, but in the grand scheme of a big push through Burma or China, it's not something you need to bother about.

[leehunt27@bloomberg.net]

thank you for this very helpful all

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: Alfred

ORIGINAL: Chris H

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Answers to the follow up questions.

1.  The change log #77 from patch 1 was worded clumsily.  It is not to be inferred that the Chain of Command must be followed.  The "its HQs" was meant to mean the applicable HQs which are within range of the LCU and intended to assist.

2.  Defenders can also gain the combat bonus.  This means that when defending a base, even units with no attacking assault value devices should still have the base as their objective because when defending support type squads are counted as having an assault value of 1/10 for odds calculations.

3.  Being 100% prepped for an objective is not in itself a 100% guarantee that the combat bonuses will be present.  Leader ratings also modify the availability and quantum of combat bonuses received.  A Command HQ can give a combat bonus within the range of 0% to 90%.  A Corps HQ can give a combat bonus within the range of 0% to 10%.  Having both Command and Corps HQs within range and at 100% prepped value, can give a combat bonus within the range 0% to 100%.

4.  In determining whether the HQs may provide a combat bonus, both the level and target of the HQ objective is checked.  See BigJ62's last post in this thread

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2223071&mpage=1&key=objective?

which is the only reference from a dev I have ever tracked down which expands on what the manual states on page 178.

5.  In practical terms, where time is not critical, the desirable prepped thresholds are:

for an atoll invasion - 100%, although anything above 80% might be OK if the landing troops have minimal disruption and the defenders are badly disrupted/fatigued etc
for land combat not in base - anything as objectives do not apply outside of base hexes
for land combat in a base - ideally 100% but anything above 50% will probably be of some value


The closer to 100% prepped for LCU and applicable HQs, the better it is.  However any level below 30 is almost guaranteed to be of no value.

Alfred

I'm assuming from this that Army HQ are treated as Corps HQ.

Correct.

Alfred

They are actually labeled that way as well. Look beyond the unit name and you'll see in the upper left corner of the LCU interface the type of HQ category it falls into is labeled.
Chinese Army HQs are all labeled as Corps HQs. War Area HQs are labeled as Command HQs.

[LeeChard]

Thanks, you've added to my confidence moving forward[:)]

[Mac Linehan]

Alfred -

This thread, and in particular your comments and clarifications, have brought together all of the varied posts and rules that I have read and collected through the years into one coherent whole.

Your posts, are as always, clear and concise.

Thank You for your hours of effort on our behalf.

"If a person has any greatness in them, it comes to light not in one flamboyant hour, but in the ledger of his daily work." Beryl Markham

Lokasenna -

Original:

You only need prep time for two (or three) things:

1) Amphibious landings
2) Defending
Possible 3) Negating your opponent's #2

You will never see a "preparation (+)" in the combat report, only "preparation (-)". That (-) occurs when the attacker's preparation is higher than the defenders.

If you are moving so quickly that you aren't prepped for the next base, then your opponent probably isn't prepped either. In a land war, prep isn't that important. It does make a difference in a small way, but in the grand scheme of a big push through Burma or China, it's not something you need to bother about.

Lokasenna -

Well and clearly said; I appreciate your insight and thoughts.

Mac

[Yaab]

1. LCU looks to see if a Corps HQ is in range. If a Corps HQ is found, proceed to points 2-6 below. If no Corps HQ is found, proceed to points 7-8 below


2. If Corps HQ is within range, the level and target of the Corps HQ is checked and a combat bonus within the range 0-10% may be given.

3. If more than one Corps HQ is within range, the levels and targets of the additional Corps HQs are not checked.

Alfred

Can anyone confirm point 3? I have a few places in China were several corps/army HQs are in one hex or several LCUs are in range 1 of many corps/army HQs. It seems in some places I have corps/army HQ that are actually misused.

[RangerJoe]

You only need one HQ unless you have damaged units that need lots of support to rebuild.

[Sardaukar]

Quite often you want more than 1 HQ, for support squads they add.

You'll easily see if you need more from other unit(s) screen where there is "Support needed". If red, it's good to have extra HQ.