Sapper222 vs Callistrid (no Sapper222 pls)

[timmyab]

lol at the South. Where's Manstein!
It confirms in my mind though that this isn't Sapper you are playing unless he's very very drunk. Good Axis players don't lose army groups, even bad ones don't.

[Callistrid]

Sapper222 made several huge mistakes.
First, he rail out around 10 infantry divisions from south. The frontline from Kiev to D-town was protected only by 10-12 german infantry divisions, what is really small number, for a 20-25 hex wide frontline. The lower Donec only by 4 rumanian division, and they protect 12-15 wide hex frontline.

Second the old german "snake" frontline strategy no longer works. Need to secure the flank protection, and spread.

Third, the german don't really care about the massive bridgeheads around Donyec river. There was a railpont end on the southern part of the river, where the reinforcements arrives without crossing the river on foot.

[timmyab]

The game does have an experiment gone wrong feel to it. Maybe that's what it is.
The idea of stripping the South to the bare minimum is interesting, perhaps his mistake was to assume that you would also strip it bare. Going for Leningrad via Estonia can surely never be correct. (imo)

[Peltonx]

Good moves.

[HITMAN202]

What a beautiful AGS sector offensive Callistrid. Guys, Sapper222 (you can't duplicate user names) hasn't made a mistake, he's clearly trying something new. He's an incredibly active player (# of games.) He and MT over the last 2 years have shown some of the most creative German strategy and we are seeing further evidence of it. But it's pretty ugly bad !!!

[Flaviusx]

Wow. What a strange game. Head scratching moves by Sapper.

[mktours]

ORIGINAL: Callistrid

Sapper222 made several huge mistakes.
First, he rail out around 10 infantry divisions from south. The frontline from Kiev to D-town was protected only by 10-12 german infantry divisions, what is really small number, for a 20-25 hex wide frontline. The lower Donec only by 4 rumanian division, and they protect 12-15 wide hex frontline.

Second the old german "snake" frontline strategy no longer works. Need to secure the flank protection, and spread.

Third, the german don't really care about the massive bridgeheads around Donyec river. There was a railpont end on the southern part of the river, where the reinforcements arrives without crossing the river on foot.

So Saper is playing 3 games at the same time, one against you, one against Pelton, and one against me. The game between Saper and me should be very stressful for him as we are in mid-1943 and Germany troops are being pocketed turn after turn, (that doesn’t mean I am better than him as we are playing old blizzard in our game so it is hugely in favor of my side).
He started this game in a wrong timing when I happened to pocketed about 40 Germany divisions in one turn, he did a superb job to get half of them out, but that should be very stressful event for him, I believe that might lead to his under performance in doing this opening.
Saper is a very good player, I believe he could make a good come back in this game, just like he did after losing 40+ divisions in the old blizzard in the game between him and me. He is a very good player and you will have a good game.
By the way, did you have an agreement about not allowing extend Lvov pocket in this game (it looks like he is intentionally refrained from doing it)? If Germany can’t do extend Lvov, then it is not worthwhile to borrow 2 Pz corps from AGC, I will always do it if I play GHC.
Your offensive in the south is very impressive, which shows you are a very good player, in my opinion, you don’t need to against that opening, you could handle it.

[Callistrid]

T09 South

Well, I can say sapper222 is one of the best WITE player. He not just break my encirclement, but rout my cavalry divisions out, make them unusable this turn.
However, I still pocketed the southern front, this in time two separate parts, but his ,ot divisions are real dangerous. Supplying by air, the motorized troops allways have enough fuel, and supply to fight.

But threre is a big threat. Around Gomel the german center front has a massive panzer spearhead, and those guys can drive south to rescue the encircled front, plus encircle mine.
That is a bad and good news. If the panzers can't connect with the southern front, they will be still eliminate. But if yes, 20% of my full army will be in danger.

The massive fight around south still weak my defense possibilities on other fronts. Leningrad is close to collapse, Moscow is on danger, and 60 % of my army fight south, with low succes.

[Callistrid]

T09 Center

Perhaps that was my last major retreat. Need massive reincorcements to protect the fromt, but from where?
The southern front fight must be end next turn.

[Callistrid]

T09 Leningrad

The german speahead moves south, to support the Moscow offense, plus/or de something with the encircled south front.
In current situation the city will fall on 3-4 turn, what is far more acceptable then the last turn situation was.
The full industry in Leningrad was evacuated.

[Flaviusx]

You're going to have to start stripping the south soon I think. Just get the evacuation completed down there and begin transfers. By turn 10 you ought to have most everything west of Rostov out.

Even if you fail to destroy the AGS panzers, you've bought yourself the time needed down there. Don't lose sight of the bigger picture. Sapper's all in up north and center cannot be ignored much longer.

[Callistrid]

Yes, I see the danger... but encircle the full souther front was the most delicious price... However the soviet is not enough strong for a simultanios attack and defence.
Next turn I must rail out troops.

[smokindave34]

ORIGINAL: Callistrid

Yes, I see the danger... but encircle the full souther front was the most delicious price... However the soviet is not enough strong for a simultanios attack and defence.
Next turn I must rail out troops.

If you keep on capturing axis armored/motorized divisions in '41 your going to have a hard time finding an axis opponent [;)]!

Very impressive Callistrid

[Callistrid]

ORIGINAL: smokindave34

ORIGINAL: Callistrid

Yes, I see the danger... but encircle the full souther front was the most delicious price... However the soviet is not enough strong for a simultanios attack and defence.
Next turn I must rail out troops.

If you keep on capturing axis armored/motorized divisions in '41 your going to have a hard time finding an axis opponent [;)]!

Very impressive Callistrid

Let's see the results Sappert is a tough player.

[mktours]

ORIGINAL: Callistrid

T09 South

Well, I can say sapper222 is one of the best WITE player. He not just break my encirclement, but rout my cavalry divisions out, make them unusable this turn.
However, I still pocketed the southern front, this in time two separate parts, but his ,ot divisions are real dangerous. Supplying by air, the motorized troops allways have enough fuel, and supply to fight.

But threre is a big threat. Around Gomel the german center front has a massive panzer spearhead, and those guys can drive south to rescue the encircled front, plus encircle mine.
That is a bad and good news. If the panzers can't connect with the southern front, they will be still eliminate. But if yes, 20% of my full army will be in danger.

The massive fight around south still weak my defense possibilities on other fronts. Leningrad is close to collapse, Moscow is on danger, and 60 % of my army fight south, with low succes.

I am afraid that you are already in very dangerous situation. The pockets looks like easy to be broken.
Your best chance is that he could not break the pocket in T8, once he did break the pocket, the chance should be slim for you to kill the isolated troops, as in T8, we could suppose at lease 1 pz corps would be on rail towards south (after shocking news reach OKH), it would arrive at T10, so your T9 pockets are impossible to hold.
If the Kharkov Rail is still damaged, then he only need to cut the rail near Kursk to put you in big trouble in T10, the Soviet infantry could not escape after the rail being cut.
Perhaps you should retreat in T9, T10 is too late.

[Peltonx]

Game is at a critical pt.

SHC has gone all in.

One side will take massive losses which they will NEVER recover from.

IF sapper did and HQBU with his center panzers and heads south lol MASSIVE pocket.

Be and interesting few turn.

At this point only SHC losses really matter because if they get crushed during the next 3 turns the blizzard will be weak and by summer 1942 they get smoked.

SHC has taken a risk that it never should have, but makes for an interesting ARR

[Callistrid]

T10 Full front

German panzers arives on south, so my forces retreat back to the river, and rail points. The Bryansk Front was railed to Moscow, prepearing for the future decesive battles.
4 motorized division (3 SS, one regular) had been eliminated, so the german has only 27 operative mot/pz division, and 12 of them locate on southern front, the rest near Moscow.

I've sent 12 division to Leningrad, reinforce the city, and give more time, before will fall. Only 18-20 german division attack the citym but they are close from cuting the rail line.

Next turn I will send more troops from south to other fronts.

[Callistrid]

The lost german divisions.

[Callistrid]

mktours, I allways take care and spot on the german rail lines, so when panzer forces arrives, my troops fall back. On T10 german panzers appears

[timmyab]

4 motorized divisions destroyed and AGS cut off again - ouch!
Back to the drawing board for Sapper I think.
AGS plan revised to include flank protection