Greyjoy(J) vs. Obvert(A) - The air war in China- DBB, SLs, PDU OFF

[crsutton]

At this stage he just does not have the qualitative superiority to bull Japanese troops out of a position. Six months will change that.

[GreyJoy]

Six months is all i need.
The plan is to stay that far in India untill Jan 1943, then we'll retire to Ceylon (which is getting fortified now) and to Burma.

Same for Oz. We will move back from Western Oz in few months. Already prepping the new defensive line around Port Hedland/Koepang

[GreyJoy]

Now what will Erik do at Hyderabad? Will he try to attack? Will he retire back?Will he switch to some easier targets?

[Sangeli]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Now what will Erik do at Hyderabad? Will he try to attack? Will he retire back?Will he switch to some easier targets?

Considering he's come this far and its only 2x terrain I think Erik will go for the attack. But even if it fails he'll probably go for another target anyway. Be sure to keep a large reserve force if he disengages.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Now what will Erik do at Hyderabad? Will he try to attack? Will he retire back?Will he switch to some easier targets?

Considering he's come this far and its only 2x terrain I think Erik will go for the attack. But even if it fails he'll probably go for another target anyway. Be sure to keep a large reserve force if he disengages.

If he wants to have a single chance to dislodge 1200 Japanese AVs, he will need all the forces present at the moment at Hyderabad. 2 to 1 in terms of AVs isn't much. It is also true that 2 out of the 3 IDs I have there have a very low exp (rebuilt IDs destroyed during the battle of Sian), but he cannot know it...
However I do hope he's going to attack. I think he'll be in deep trouble if he does... but we'll see soon enough.

If he disengage, yes, i'll reposition my units and will build back a strategic reserve (at the moment I have 4 IDs in that part of India, all of them committed at Hyderabad... so I need to relocate them)

[GreyJoy]

A screenshot of the present allied offensive at Hyderabad

[GreyJoy]

August 19, 1942

The allies don't attack at Hyderabad, nor they move back. Don't understand...[&:][&:][&:]

in 2 days my units will move to the hex NW of the city, thus threatening the allied advanced position.
One of the 3 IDs I have in the city will be out of town in 2 days, reinforcing the flanking position on my left.
Will risk having only 800 AVs in town... let's see if it pays off


Very quiet everywhere else...

[Sangeli]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
in 2 days my units will move to the hex NW of the city, thus threatening the allied advanced position.
One of the 3 IDs I have in the city will be out of town in 2 days, reinforcing the flanking position on my left.
Will risk having only 800 AVs in town... let's see if it pays off

What do you really gain by doing this? Sure the Allied LCUs will be stuck in Hyderbad but you said they aren't moving anyway. Best case after a few weeks the Allies bring reserves and force you to fall back and you do so unmolested because you have no chance of actually defeating the Hyderabad stack. On the other hand, by splitting your LCUs you are handing an opportunity to the Allies to defeat your units in detail which could severely compromise your Indian holdings. And I bet that he is waiting in Hyderbad for reinforcements which are probably on the way so it's even more risky. There is no reason to add more risk to the situation which is getting more and more tenuous every day as the Allies grow in strength.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
in 2 days my units will move to the hex NW of the city, thus threatening the allied advanced position.
One of the 3 IDs I have in the city will be out of town in 2 days, reinforcing the flanking position on my left.
Will risk having only 800 AVs in town... let's see if it pays off

What do you really gain by doing this? Sure the Allied LCUs will be stuck in Hyderbad but you said they aren't moving anyway. Best case after a few weeks the Allies bring reserves and force you to fall back and you do so unmolested because you have no chance of actually defeating the Hyderabad stack. On the other hand, by splitting your LCUs you are handing an opportunity to the Allies to defeat your units in detail which could severely compromise your Indian holdings. And I bet that he is waiting in Hyderbad for reinforcements which are probably on the way so it's even more risky. There is no reason to add more risk to the situation which is getting more and more tenuous every day as the Allies grow in strength.

Your considerations are all wise and all make very much sense.
The only thing i need to consider is that we are still in 1942, when the allies aren't that strong at all, even in a place like India.
If i ever get a chance of inflicting a good loss to the allied army, that chance is now or never.
I will do my best.

August 20-21, 1942

The allies keep on making reconing bombardments at Hyderabad. Not very effective at the moment. Just few squads disabled on both sides. I had kept my 36th ID moving west and tomorrow it should be out of the town...so tomorrow he could attack facing only 2 divisions...i just hope he doesn't smell the right timing and miss the opportunity.
100K supplies are delivered in these days at Madras and Calcutta, in order to support the expensive indian campaign. Strategically, i now see the flaw of the whole project... i've spent way too many supplies for conquering and holding India in the last 8 months...still don't know if the delay caused to the allied offensive in CBI will be worth this expenditure...probably not.

In front of Patna another storm is rising. Not less than 400 planes are spotted in the allied bases (Allahlabad, Gorkapur etc). Intense air recon shows the allied grown insterest for the Assam basin.
We've optimized as best as we could the defences at Patna and Ranchi. More AA units have arrived in the last days and the CAP is now a mix of A6M3, KI-44a and KI-43 IIb. The best i can field

A6M5 is being produced at a great rate. 400 planes/monthly. Should be able to equip most of my LBA within the next month.


CHINA: we're ready to launch another attack south of Chikkiang.

[JohnDillworth]

The only thing i need to consider is that we are still in 1942, when the allies aren't that strong at all, even in a place like India.

Keep in mind he has some pretty good units there. 2 of those divisions are among the best Allied units in the game. Don't know much about devices but these are not the America Army divisions of 1942 so they do have he punch, experience and morale

[veji1]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy]
i've spent way too many supplies for conquering and holding India in the last 8 months...still don't know if the delay caused to the allied offensive in CBI will be worth this expenditure...probably not.

Your unfortune in China makes it look worse I suppose. Suddenly all those troops and planes seem like they could have been so much more useful in busting the Chinese lines to reduce China to the inner plains, from which you know there isn't much to fear until very very late in the game...

What would you differently if you were to start again ?

I would like to see, just for fun, a player go for an all in Australia strategy. Here the goal wouldn't be to hold anything on the east coast for long, but really just to destroy troops and wreck industry. not strategically sound I suppose, but as a spectator...

[GreyJoy]

August 22, 1942

One day too short... damn!

My left wing west of Hyderabad moved into the enemy's controlled hex NW of the city. Yesterday there was only a small cav unit defending that hex. The 21st ID, supported by some heavy artillery, tried a shock attack, in order to trap the enemy's army at Hyderabad.
Erik spotted the danger and immediately sent 3 tank units back from Hyderabad (major road, so only one day travel for the tanks).
In a +3 terrain, I knew I had only a small chance...but an attempt was mandatory.
The Japanese division shock attacked and got mauled by the enemy tanks arrived just in time. Now a counterattack is possible...and the risk is high.
In the meanwhile 4 Japanese IDs are arriving at Hyderabad, while Erik seems to be moving back the whole stack... he risked a bit here eh!?[:D]

At the same time Erik LRCAPped and sweeped his own hex (didn't know it was possible to sweep own controlled hex!), finding thin air, while a 27 A6M3s sentai of mine countersweeped. 7-7 the odds. Not that good this time.

so now I need to save my 21st ID... let's see what happens. I have the 36th ID 4 days from that contested hex... will he push me out?

Hyderabad is more than safe anyway. With 4 more divisions there's no risk...

Planned a major shock attack south of Chikkiang for tomorrow...finger crossed

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: veji1

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy]
i've spent way too many supplies for conquering and holding India in the last 8 months...still don't know if the delay caused to the allied offensive in CBI will be worth this expenditure...probably not.

Your unfortune in China makes it look worse I suppose. Suddenly all those troops and planes seem like they could have been so much more useful in busting the Chinese lines to reduce China to the inner plains, from which you know there isn't much to fear until very very late in the game...

What would you differently if you were to start again ?

I would like to see, just for fun, a player go for an all in Australia strategy. Here the goal wouldn't be to hold anything on the east coast for long, but really just to destroy troops and wreck industry. not strategically sound I suppose, but as a spectator...

The Battle of Sian (where japan lost more than 60,000 men in early feb 1942) was a major turning point in the war.
We were already deeply involved in india and I couldn't just unplug there and push in China...the damage was already done...better to proceed and follow the plan...

However yes, probably now I'd go for a very limited offensive in India (Assam) and concentrate a lot more against China in the first 3 months...

Now I really risk of having a SUPER China to fight against starting from 1943...which could make the whole pacific front completely irrelevant...scary

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

ORIGINAL: veji1

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy]
i've spent way too many supplies for conquering and holding India in the last 8 months...still don't know if the delay caused to the allied offensive in CBI will be worth this expenditure...probably not.

Your unfortune in China makes it look worse I suppose. Suddenly all those troops and planes seem like they could have been so much more useful in busting the Chinese lines to reduce China to the inner plains, from which you know there isn't much to fear until very very late in the game...

What would you differently if you were to start again ?

I would like to see, just for fun, a player go for an all in Australia strategy. Here the goal wouldn't be to hold anything on the east coast for long, but really just to destroy troops and wreck industry. not strategically sound I suppose, but as a spectator...

The Battle of Sian (where japan lost more than 60,000 men in early feb 1942) was a major turning point in the war.
We were already deeply involved in india and I couldn't just unplug there and push in China...the damage was already done...better to proceed and follow the plan...

However yes, probably now I'd go for a very limited offensive in India (Assam) and concentrate a lot more against China in the first 3 months...

Now I really risk of having a SUPER China to fight against starting from 1943...which could make the whole pacific front completely irrelevant...scary

Such a "super" China still requires supply.

[Sangeli]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
Such a "super" China still requires supply.

By invading India you basically preclude a "super" China by means of supply. They might be stout on defense but that's it. Which IMO is a very good reason to invade India.

That being said, even a "super" China isn't that super. I've managed to take the offensive as China in early 1942 but the best you can really hope for is to catch the Japanese napping and rout a brigade or two in the open plains. And this is only possible b/c my opponent is being careless.

[GreyJoy]

August 23, 1942

INDIA: The enemy's stack at Hyderabad is moving back to cover the hex where we tried a failed shock attack. Thank God Erik didn't counterattack so we could recover a bit of fatigue and distruction. The 21st ID that tried the shock has 50% of its squads disabled... not good. His units will sure arrive sooner than my reinforcements. I expect a countrattack tomorrow or the day after.
The enemy 4Es arrived over Warangal (SE of Hyderabad) and plastered the base. Usual combo of Sweeps+LRCAP by Erik. The Flak take out 2 fortresses at least.
Hyderabad is safe now with 2 more IDs just arrived. Now i need to save the 21st ID....
I am bit confused in India now. Don't really know how much is wise to invest in terms of troops in order to keep this deep defense on two different fronts (Madras-Hyderabad and Calcutta-Patna basin)...Supply expenditure is really high


Heavy recon at Ansalon, Ranchi, Jamespur in the Calcutta basin.

CHINA: Another failed shock attack. Despite the heavy air bombings (more than 250 bombers involved) and the use of 7 tank regiments, along with the best possible artillery at my disposal, it seems to be just impossible to breackthrough south of Chikkiang. Not even close to a 1-1 result... and he always has the chance to reinforce faster than me... he simply has too many supplies and i can't burn enough of them.


SOPAC: my CVs made a trip to the Solomons, but got spotted...[:-][:o]. The surprise is gone and am moving back again to the shadows...

[Mike McCreery]

In late 42 the Allies have close to 4000 AV. It may not be quality troops but I almost surrounded and destroyed a whole army of NJP's troops in 42.

[GreyJoy]

August 25, 1942

Getting tense now...

In CHINA: The attack fails again... and he's already reinforcing....My tank regiments are shattered:-(

In INDIA:... well, he attacked...with 1500 AVs... the 21st ID held the line...but it's now almost shattered... don't think it will last another attack. The 36th ID is arriving, but it's doubtfull it could really help against those odds... made a huge mistake here... oh well...

Ground combat at 78,51 (near Chihkiang)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 32627 troops, 420 guns, 992 vehicles, Assault Value = 1084

Defending force 40217 troops, 200 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 874

Japanese adjusted assault: 620

Allied adjusted defense: 1099

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 2

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
308 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 28 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 25 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Vehicles lost 63 (1 destroyed, 62 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
1566 casualties reported
Squads: 17 destroyed, 135 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 10 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 11 disabled
Guns lost 31 (2 destroyed, 29 disabled)

Assaulting units:
3rd Tank Regiment
19th Tank Regiment
12th Tank Regiment
18th Tank Regiment
23rd Tank Regiment
15th Tank Regiment
13th Tank Regiment
39th Division
9th Tank Regiment
40th Division
11th Tank Regiment
6th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
4th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
3rd Hvy.Artillery Regiment
15th Ind.Medium Field Artillery Regiment
2nd Hvy.Artillery Regiment
12th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
13th Army
4th Mortar Battalion
11th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
Tonei Hvy Gun Regiment
14th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
1st Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
7th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
13th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
5th Ind.Hvy.Art Battalion

Defending units:
9th Prov Chinese Corps
44th Chinese Corps
84th Chinese Corps
37th Chinese Corps
65th Chinese Corps
86th Chinese Corps



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 38,31 (near Hyderabad)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 48777 troops, 810 guns, 1065 vehicles, Assault Value = 1579

Defending force 13521 troops, 271 guns, 199 vehicles, Assault Value = 329

Allied adjusted assault: 627

Japanese adjusted defense: 1144

Allied assault odds: 1 to 2

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
655 casualties reported
Squads: 8 destroyed, 113 disabled
Non Combat: 5 destroyed, 32 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Guns lost 79 (10 destroyed, 69 disabled)
Vehicles lost 68 (17 destroyed, 51 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
492 casualties reported
Squads: 3 destroyed, 105 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 21 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 44 disabled
Guns lost 22 (4 destroyed, 18 disabled)
Vehicles lost 78 (8 destroyed, 70 disabled)

Assaulting units:
3rd Carabiniers Regiment
70th British Division
7th Armoured Brigade
637th Tank Destroyer Battalion
7th Australian Division
44th Cavalry Regiment
I Aus Corps Engineer Battalion
762nd Tank Battalion
2nd British Division
98th Coast AA Regiment
2/9th Field Regiment
260th Coast AA Regiment
251st Coast AA Regiment
64th Coast AA Regiment
6th Medium Regiment
85th British AT Gun Regiment

Defending units:
21st Division
14th Tank Regiment
45th Ind.AA Gun Co
50th Field AA Battalion
15th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
18th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
45th Field AA Battalion
2nd Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
26th Fld AA Gun Co
31st Fld AA Gun Co
4th Air Defense AA Regiment
9th RF Gun Battalion

[Lowpe]

Ouch! I guess hanging out in the jungle with a relatively short lines, not using lots of supply, has its attraction right about now. Boring, but safer...

You had planned on using those troops to defend and die at Madras right?

Overall, I think you need to re-examine your entire defense of India. I just don't see what it gets you.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Ouch! I guess hanging out in the jungle with a relatively short lines, not using lots of supply, has its attraction right about now. Boring, but safer...

You had planned on using those troops to defend and die at Madras right?

Overall, I think you need to re-examine your entire defense of India. I just don't see what it gets you.

Well, time for one thing. The whole Japanese game (save for a stab at auto vicotry) is to keep the Allies away from the Home Island for as long as possible.