Awakening of the Sheep! - JocMeister (A) vs. Richard III (J)

[Bullwinkle58]

I agree with your observations, but would shorten the post to "121 B-17s hauling supplies?! Huh?!!!!"

[HansBolter]

For the duration that its possible to maintain air superiority over Rangoon with the AVG and Brits (tenuous I know) it is possible to ship 50k-100k supplies into Rangoon per week and pull much of it into China.

I start the effort on December 8th. Losing a couple of dozen xAKs to torpedo bomber penetrations of the air cover to get hundreds or even thousands of tons of supplies into China is well worth it in my book

[JocMeister]

Thanks for the advice Tom. [:)] I´ll certainly try to fly as much in as I can. But I fear I have nowhere near those numbers yet!

Speaking of Chinese supply. I´ve never been able to successfully draw much supply into China. Only a trickle. Can anyone walk me through how to get good numbers flowing?

[MrKane]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: MrBlizzard

ORIGINAL: MrKane

Well ...

Currently Sep '42  RA scenario:
127 C-47 & C-33 etc.       x 3       = 381
121 B-17                        x 3       =  363
58 B-26 & B-25               x 2       = 116
71 Blenheim                   x 1        = 71
33 A-29                         x 1         = 33 
23 Wellington                 x 2         = 46    
--------------------------------------------
                                                 = 1010

however I am using planes with 30% rest settings so actual number is reduced by 30%

This sounds familiar Tom...[;)]
Jocke I can confirm you that Tom's chinese army is never without supplies. Some chinese corps have increased till 450, 500 AV in september '42...[X(]
The Chinese resistence has become stiff also with all Manchukuo thanks in action...
This is a very good advice for any Allied player

So it's possible to get to 70% of 1k/day but at quite an opportunity cost and only if you can protect Ledo, Dimapur, Jorhat in 42 as well as your destination bases.

Some of my troops in China were at 400-500 simply through lack of combat without any extra supplies by the summer of 42. It doesn't cost supplies to repair disablements, and the majority of big Corps are 50% disabled when the game starts.

So to be able to do this firstly your opponent can't attack India.

Secondly you have to put all of your best bombers into bases within range of the IJA and hope for the best when you still are not close to being able to control the skies. Seems like a good recipe for a disastrous counter. This assumes your opponent lets you build bases big enough to host the planes to do this in the first place. With your Blenheims you'll be flying max range and likely only able to reach the mountains, so those will suffer over time.

Thirdly you have to get all of these planes here, by which point your opponent may have broken through in China anyway. If I remember correctly Mr Kane was already in Chungking against Jocke in July!!! So a much smaller number of planes would have been feeding these supplies into China earlier and at risk of heavy ops losses or losses to Japanese LR CAP once within range.

So assuming complete non-action by the Japanese player it is indeed possible to get 70% of 1k supply into China by late summer 42 (for a short term duration, although with ops losses that will diminish over time), although still at a high opportunity cost, not to mention actual VP cost of lost airframes.

Now, if the Japanese player isn't pushing so hard in CBI that this kind of supply situation works, then it's probably not needed anyway and those bombers are better off training pilots for the future or hitting other targets as they are available, possibly in other theaters entirely.

I never said it is easy, and it work in any situation There is price attached to solution, but I in my opinion 120 B-17 it is worth saving China.
Ops are not issue in my case, pilots with exp 50+ do not crash everyday.
Well, I do not understand you issue with defending bases. With allied super heavy AA in DB scenarios there is not need for CAP over bases.

BTW. I am playing RA, so not need bombers and fighters for pilots training program.

[Sangeli]

One very useful thing I rarely see get mentioned about China is the importance of pulling back units with high numbers of disabled squads into bases for R&R. On the front line those disabled squads will take a long time to recover but in larger bases it will go much faster. Typically when a Chinese corps has been through the meatgrinder I will pull it off the lines, send it to garrison a city, split it into 3rds, and let it rest. If you can avoid getting the Chinese army destroyed in the first few months, get supply into place, and recover most of your disabled squads, the Chinese army really becomes a powerful force. I've even managed to gain the strategic initiative in China in my current game despite sending a sizable contingent via PPs spent to Burma.

[JocMeister]

Started punching through the 2nd turn. Yuck. Malaya and China done. Hope I will get most of the DEI and China done tonight. Tomorrow I´ll try and get the rest done.

At least this helps with things...not the best IPA I had. Too sweet for my taste!
http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/napa-smith ... pa/215146/

Discovered this song while watching Walking Dead!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWwSCuU7plk

[KenchiSulla]

Joc, are you watching season 4? Just got the blu rey and we've been watching every evening! I luv it....

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

I agree with your observations, but would shorten the post to "121 B-17s hauling supplies?! Huh?!!!!"

Agree, although I don't think it's a terrible use for the ones that start in the PI. Those withdraw after June '42 anyway. I'd still use them for periodic bombing missions, but...

[KenchiSulla]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

I agree with your observations, but would shorten the post to "121 B-17s hauling supplies?! Huh?!!!!"

Agree, although I don't think it's a terrible use for the ones that start in the PI. Those withdraw after June '42 anyway. I'd still use them for periodic bombing missions, but...

I love to use the B17Ds for ASW duty!

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder

Joc, are you watching season 4? Just got the blu rey and we've been watching every evening! I luv it....

Yeah, finished all seasons! Eagerly awaiting season 5. [&o] There is a trailer available for it on Youtube. You might want to finish season 4 before watching it though. [:)]

[JocMeister]

I would still like some hints on getting supply to flow from Rangoon to Chungking... [:)]

[Lowpe]

Try raising the supply arrow at Lashio, so that it draws from Rangoon, then turn it off and see where the supply goes, you might want to raise the supply arrow at Paoshan when you lower Lashio.

[JocMeister]

Yeah, tried that before. I can get small amounts flowing into China that way. But people seem to be talking about 6 figure digits while I manage 3 digit numbers... can´t get it to work properly. [:(]Either it flows back to Rangoon or back into India. Can never get any big numbers across the mountains.

[Sangeli]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Yeah, tried that before. I can get small amounts flowing into China that way. But people seem to be talking about 6 figure digits while I manage 3 digit numbers... can´t get it to work properly. [:(]Either it flows back to Rangoon or back into India. Can never get any big numbers across the mountains.

Ya, I too have issues actually seeing the supply stockpiles build up from my larger ones in Burma. I've tried using the supply stockpile mechanics but that doesn't seem to do much. That being said, when I actually look at what I have in China I know the Burma road is working. My hypothesis is that the 500 supply that gets added to Tsuyung is immediately sent to other Chinese cities and troops such that you can't really notice the supply actually arriving.

[JocMeister]

Heh, good to hear I´m not alone. [:)]

Have anyone gotten it to work?

[JocMeister]

Got the DEI, India and China done last night. Hope to get OZ done during the morning and the US tonight.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Yeah, tried that before. I can get small amounts flowing into China that way. But people seem to be talking about 6 figure digits while I manage 3 digit numbers... can´t get it to work properly. [:(]Either it flows back to Rangoon or back into India. Can never get any big numbers across the mountains.

Ya, I too have issues actually seeing the supply stockpiles build up from my larger ones in Burma. I've tried using the supply stockpile mechanics but that doesn't seem to do much. That being said, when I actually look at what I have in China I know the Burma road is working. My hypothesis is that the 500 supply that gets added to Tsuyung is immediately sent to other Chinese cities and troops such that you can't really notice the supply actually arriving.

This did used to work in stock, but I think the various changes in the betas have done something to restrict the movements through the mountain bases especially. Although it was nice, it also was pretty fantastical to get so much going up this road.

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: obvert
This did used to work in stock, but I think the various changes in the betas have done something to restrict the movements through the mountain bases especially. Although it was nice, it also was pretty fantastical to get so much going up this road.

Yeah, if its not working its a good thing IMO! [:)]

[JocMeister]

Managed to send the horrendous Allied 2nd turn off to Richard! Now lets see what the next turn brings. [&o]

[Grollub]

Good luck! I'll (as always) follow your proceedings. [:)]