Do we try to hard to drag old games along with us into the future?

[Rosseau]

Yes, Steel Panthers (and MBT) would be incredible if they could (optionally) take out some of the micromanagement for us older folks. I will not be buying WitW, because I'll never have time to play it, and I'm trying to find someone to take World in Flames off my hands [8|]

To some extent, the Mrs. may be talking about getting jaded. Years ago, when I had a limited number of games I would be sure to play the best ones last, so I wouldn't get jaded. But I lost that habit. Now, how can I not possibly become jaded after playing games like CMANO and WitP-AE? I recently booted up the latest Harpoon series and almost threw up [:)]

[rwenstrup]

I agree with the observations here...Steel Panthers and the others should be in their third or fourth iteration. The quality of games has gone down in my opinion. More are made...but the extent of effort is less.

Seems to me that there is a market for a new publisher who works on classic games. They would probably cost a lot more that the ipad games you can buy today...but they would have the depth and play-ability that would make them worth it. I would definitely buy them.

I have been a loyal fan of Matrix Games since they released Steel Panthers for free. I thought it was a brilliant strategy. Seems to me they have lost the insight they once displayed and now aspire to be a mass distributor of games. So be it...another publisher will come along. I suspect that the recent change by the Command Ops team had something to do with this issue.

Sad...

[geozero]

I beta tested World In Flames years ago and asked kindly to get out. It was a mess back then and it is now I suspect. The game has no AI from my understanding as that was ditched. The designers wanted to stick to original board game graphics instead of bringing it to a more current look... bad mistake IMO. At that point your entire marketing hinges on the gamers that already have WiF and just looking for a PC version so they can reclaim their dinner table. It does nothing to bring on new players or foster the wargaming genre. And the cost... holy cow...

[aaatoysandmore]

ORIGINAL: geozero

BTW there was actually a Squad Leader PC game that came out in 2000!!!

http://www.gamespot.com/squad-leader/

Omg did someone speak of that awful game? I cannot believe they got to put the good name of Squad Leader on that mess of a game.

[geozero]

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

ORIGINAL: geozero

BTW there was actually a Squad Leader PC game that came out in 2000!!!

http://www.gamespot.com/squad-leader/

Omg did someone speak of that awful game? I cannot believe they got to put the good name of Squad Leader on that mess of a game.

Yes, and now you will have nightmare visions of a game gone horribly wrong.

Actually the story behind that was that AH was going to support that game, and then I think AH went belly up and HASBRO who took over did a terrible job and thought they would do well...

Something like that if my feeble memory serves me correct.

I actually still had that boxed game until about 3 months ago... I threw out a lot of games. Just sick of the whole thing. LOL

[MrsWargamer]

ORIGINAL: geozero

I beta tested World In Flames years ago and asked kindly to get out. It was a mess back then and it is now I suspect. The game has no AI from my understanding as that was ditched. The designers wanted to stick to original board game graphics instead of bringing it to a more current look... bad mistake IMO. At that point your entire marketing hinges on the gamers that already have WiF and just looking for a PC version so they can reclaim their dinner table. It does nothing to bring on new players or foster the wargaming genre. And the cost... holy cow...

Actually, the ONLY reason I bought it was the table reason. I have a perfectly good copy of the boar game, and, it basically comes down to it or use the room for everything else. It lost the fight for the room. The books are great, no denying their value. Noooooooot entirely sure about the software. I have kinda fizzled in my drive to get into it.

No AI, couldn't care less. I find it fascinating people seriously believe an AI is actually going to play that game credibly. Want to buy some swamp land?

Then there are other famous board games, and really they were designed on the assumption that being a board game, it would be played by one of more real people, and the turn sequence wouldn't be a problem, because the other person would be sitting there waiting to impart their actions.
ASL as an option through VASL works because it's just an interface for two people playing it at the same time. As a computer program, hehe that's really kinda funny. I wouldn't beta it at gun point.

It's not that games need awesome graphics, they need awesome designs. If the game is a bad idea, it won't matter how great it looks, because a great looking bad idea is still not worth anything from being a bad idea.

I think a lot of the games coming out on tablets have a lot of potential to deliver on the fun not because they tablet games, but because being tablet games, they have had to be made simple, uncluttered with unneeded excess and are easy to play. My only emerging truth, is if I am in the same room as my laptop, while using my tablet, why not use the laptop?

But I got into wargaming, when a wargame looked like Tactics II (which would be awesome on a tablet), and when Squad Leader was considered the bench mark for a complicated game. Then it was rated I think a 7-9 out of 10 for complexity. Today, it might be lucky to reach a 5 if you compare it to our cluttered, complicated, poorly thought out interfaces in wargames.

I have noticed, they don't make manuals to explain the game, they make manuals to explain the interface. I am used to reading manuals to explain the game, and the interface needs no explanation at all. That is actually what is great about Battle Academy. The tutorial lasts about a minute maybe two, and it is blindly simple. There is almost no reason for a manual for Battle Academy. Everything you learn, is basically experience based learning. Finding out what units do what best. That's like learning how to win in Chess.

[rhondabrwn]

Great observations Mrs Wargamer... enjoying the thread.

Let me add this one... you have a game in your collection that you haven't gotten into yet, but then... then... the new and improved edition comes out. Example... Birth of America > Birth of America 2: Wars in America. Now do I just trash the original game (having wasted the money) or stubbornly insist on playing it to "get my money's worth"? How about the games that now have an "AE" edition? "Victoria" and "Victoria II"... Cross of Iron I, II, III, IV... Europa Universalis I, II, III, and now IV?

Sometimes the newer games are not arguably better, just different, so the older games are not obsolete.

Ah... the dilemma of being a game collector who buys everything in sight and then can't find the time to play more than a handful of them Sometimes I think I get more enjoyment out of the act of installation and updating and maintaining my collection than I ever get out of playing them. I religiously download and install every patch for every game that I have installed... I seek out mods and install them... all for a game that has never been played and probably never will be... totally insane behavior!

Deleting old games makes a lot of sense if you have the willpower to do so [&o]

[aaatoysandmore]

Wouldn't you just love though to see a computer version of "Feudal"? My 2nd ex and I used to play that all the time. Loved the minatures aspect of it and the chesslike play, it was actually made for chesslike play and not really any kind of wargame although it presented itself in a medieval atmosphere. Great game. I can't believe no one has ever converted it to pc. Course I can't believe a lot of good games that are boardgames haven't been converted to the pc like American Heritage games. I've wanted a "DogFight" conversion for years and "Broadsides" was a lot of fun too. Even "BattleCry" was pretty good but I didn't play it as much as the other two. I never had "Hit the Beach" though.

[chemkid]

.

[ribaluigi]

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer
I'd rather turn on the computer and see 5 games I actually MIGHT play, instead of seeing more than 50 games, and I never get around to them and in some cases I fail to notice that they don't even run now.

I totally agree! Now I try to only install games that I might play and I have completely stopped buying new ones (at least for one year). Having only a game (or two) on your pc forces you to actually play them.

[MrsWargamer]

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn

Great observations Mrs Wargamer... enjoying the thread.

Let me add this one... you have a game in your collection that you haven't gotten into yet, but then... then... the new and improved edition comes out. Example... Birth of America > Birth of America 2: Wars in America. Now do I just trash the original game (having wasted the money) or stubbornly insist on playing it to "get my money's worth"? How about the games that now have an "AE" edition? "Victoria" and "Victoria II"... Cross of Iron I, II, III, IV... Europa Universalis I, II, III, and now IV?

Sometimes the newer games are not arguably better, just different, so the older games are not obsolete.

Ah... the dilemma of being a game collector who buys everything in sight and then can't find the time to play more than a handful of them Sometimes I think I get more enjoyment out of the act of installation and updating and maintaining my collection than I ever get out of playing them. I religiously download and install every patch for every game that I have installed... I seek out mods and install them... all for a game that has never been played and probably never will be... totally insane behavior!

Deleting old games makes a lot of sense if you have the willpower to do so [&o]

It's a shame you are female like me If you were a guy it wouldn't be as vexing. Then I could be less bothered by our shared traits of reinstalling and updating, and fidgeting with games I have yet to even play. Sounds too much now like re arranging the damned furniture hehe

Which I do a lot of as well.

For a while I was telling myself 'oh I am just doing test installs to help with telling people what might be needed who have recently bought the game'. Then I realize that is not really honestly the case, I'm just being fussy.

[rhondabrwn]

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn

Great observations Mrs Wargamer... enjoying the thread.

Let me add this one... you have a game in your collection that you haven't gotten into yet, but then... then... the new and improved edition comes out. Example... Birth of America > Birth of America 2: Wars in America. Now do I just trash the original game (having wasted the money) or stubbornly insist on playing it to "get my money's worth"? How about the games that now have an "AE" edition? "Victoria" and "Victoria II"... Cross of Iron I, II, III, IV... Europa Universalis I, II, III, and now IV?

Sometimes the newer games are not arguably better, just different, so the older games are not obsolete.

Ah... the dilemma of being a game collector who buys everything in sight and then can't find the time to play more than a handful of them Sometimes I think I get more enjoyment out of the act of installation and updating and maintaining my collection than I ever get out of playing them. I religiously download and install every patch for every game that I have installed... I seek out mods and install them... all for a game that has never been played and probably never will be... totally insane behavior!

Deleting old games makes a lot of sense if you have the willpower to do so [&o]

It's a shame you are female like me If you were a guy it wouldn't be as vexing. Then I could be less bothered by our shared traits of reinstalling and updating, and fidgeting with games I have yet to even play. Sounds too much now like re arranging the damned furniture hehe

Which I do a lot of as well.

For a while I was telling myself 'oh I am just doing test installs to help with telling people what might be needed who have recently bought the game'. Then I realize that is not really honestly the case, I'm just being fussy.

Right on! [&o]

It's all good mental exercise to keep old age dementia at bay
[:D]

[rhondabrwn]

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

Wouldn't you just love though to see a computer version of "Feudal"? My 2nd ex and I used to play that all the time. Loved the minatures aspect of it and the chesslike play, it was actually made for chesslike play and not really any kind of wargame although it presented itself in a medieval atmosphere. Great game. I can't believe no one has ever converted it to pc. Course I can't believe a lot of good games that are boardgames haven't been converted to the pc like American Heritage games. I've wanted a "DogFight" conversion for years and "Broadsides" was a lot of fun too. Even "BattleCry" was pretty good but I didn't play it as much as the other two. I never had "Hit the Beach" though.

Ah yes, some of my all time favorites! I had "Feudal" in my classroom and the kids loved playing it (though I lost some pieces to theft). It would make a good computer game.

"Broadside" was always fun and that would also make a great casual computer game, especially for tablets.

"Dogfight" does have some similar computer games out there. Look into Sid Miers "Ace Patrol" which sounds a lot like "Dogfight" to me. It's inexpensive as well and there is a WWII Pacific version.

Ace Patrol

[geozero]

I remember Broadside and Dogfight games. They were a lot of fun.

I have Ace Patrol and it is quite fun and yes very much in the vein of the Dogfight boardgame.

These games are simple... and that means you will likely play many hours. I look at cost vs. enjoyment. My rule of thumb has changed with inflation, but the way I look at it is entertainment is worth about $8-$10 per hour (length of a theater movie's cost, or an 8-10 hour stay at an amusement park, etc.). Anyway if a game costs $30 I should get at LEAST 3 hours of play and fun out of it. If I get more it was a good investment. If I get less than it is a dud.

And there is where you can judge a game to see if it is good or bad.

With ASL it can take hours to set up, hours to argue and only a few minutes of actual play. That in my book is NOT FUN.