Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse V - Fat AARse

[warspite1]

Jul//Aug 1940
Impulse: Production

Germany:
INF
ARM HQ
2 x FTR
LND
SUB (2nd Cycle)
SUB (1st Cycle)

Italy:
Roma (2nd Cycle)
NAV
SUB (1st Cycle)

Japan:
Yamato and TRS (2nd Cycle)
FTR
2 x Cruiser (1st Cycle)
Light Carrier (1st Cycle)
Ryuho (2nd Cycle)
SUB (1st Cycle)

[warspite1]

Jul//Aug 1940
Impulse: Production

China:
INF HQ

Commonwealth:
HMS Indomitable and HMS Prince of Wales (2nd Cycle)
INF HQ
FTR
LND
Pilot

USA:
USS Washington, AMPH and TRS (2nd Cycle)
SUB (2nd Cycle)

USSR:
INF
ARM
CAV
FTR
Pilot

[warspite1]

Sep/Oct 1940
Impulse: Reinforcement

Germany:
3 x FTR
4 x LND
INF
MECH

Italy:
Aquila has been placed in the Construction Pool

Japan:
Junyo and Hiyo have been placed in the Construction Pool
Takao
Atago
SUB
INF

[warspite1]

Sep/Oct 1940
Impulse: Reinforcement

China:
INF + INF DIV - there is no place for these units to arrive. These units will try and arrive next turn.


Commonwealth:
AMPH has been placed in the Construction Pool
FTR

France:
Nothing

USA:
AMPH and USS Hornet and USS South Dakota have been placed in the Construction Pool
TRS

USSR:
LND
3 x INF

[brian brian]

soldiering on, thanks so much for all the posts. I'm inspired to push a few counters around later tonight I hope. Work is a four letter word for a reason sometimes.


I see on the main forum you are stuck at Reinforcement….best of luck with that. Fortunately with all the auto-saves, perhaps there is an easy point to pick things up again and work around the stuck point.

You make a lot of great posts and I wouldn't expect you to post every detail. Clearly in this game situation, the Germans have every reason in the world to not yet install a Vichy government. However the program should have also offered the French a chance to surrender, which is now _possibly_ in the interest of the Allies to do so. Of course, as the Alllied Supreme Commander, this is your choice. Just curious to know if you had considered that.

Upside = France and it's largely intact Fleet can get on with the coming struggle for the Mediterranean, with combat supply. And North Africa will not suddenly become quasi-Axis territory.

Downside = there will never be a Vichy France, which means there will never be a Free France that can cooperate with the British, though I believe they would with the Yanks, later on. The French might also have plans to extricate a few survivors from France, and I am unclear on what happens depending on which port a naval unit is in at the time of a Surrender.

Lots of rules questions to absorb before such a decision, though I don't think any of them would take a lot of time to research. One other such question would probably appear next turn … in the Peace Step, would the Germans be able to install Vichy before the French had a chance to surrender? This could be important to the Allied decision, I think.

Most likely you made this decision and moved on into the new turn. Partially just curious to check that the program correctly offered this choice in the just completed Peace Step.

[warspite1]

Thanks for your assistance as ever brian brian. There seems no way of saving the situation* (the computer thinks I can place the French units - but there is no place for them so the game is stuck). I went back and surrendered France instead.

A new home has been set up in Senegal.

Of the French ships under construction and in the repair pool:

1 x SUB goes to the CW
Jean Bart II, Paris and Courbet goes to Italy

A CP, TRS and 2 x SUB escape to Morocco.

There was one US Entry Chit drawn for the Germans conquering France.

* Turns out that was incorrect. There was one (of three) reinforcements that could be legally placed. By placing that unit, the program then brings up notification that the other two cannot be placed and the game can move on. However, for an inexperienced player, just trying to place either the INF or Flying Boat is met with a big X. The program works [&o] but could be more intuitive for the newbie.

[warspite1]

Sep/Oct 1940
Impulse: Initiative and Weather

Axis 3:6 Allies

No re-roll available

Weather = 2 Fine everywhere.

[warspite1]

So presumably the French "rump" is still a major power - albeit one that cannot produce (no factories) and that still cannot co-operate with the CW?

[warspite1]

So, to add to the Allies woes:

- Italy can build three more battleships - one of which is Jean Bart.
- Not realising that the final Chinese Communist city was about to fall I have only scrapped two Communist infantry. The Chinese could therefore be wasting builds in future on infantry and Mao!

[warspite1]

Things to do:

- Get another US CP to the Caribbean to make up the full 40 US factories producing.
- Check out the Japanese resource - factory - convoy situation as a result of what has happened in the north of China.
- Ditto for the CW. The Med is too dangerous now for convoys so I need to ensure resources are being sent around the Cape.
- Check the Nazi-Soviet Pact garrisons. Soviet units are almost all back from Finland and new units are being built all the time.
- Get the US lending to France to build some TERR!
- Save a BP next turn (any nation) and ensure it is added to the BP's the turn after.

[brian brian]

well, you can only scrap units that are three years old from the Force Pool, or when they are killed in combat. so you can at least remove some I expect.


in this case the Allies are now sorely missing the not-yet-coded City Based Volunteers…esp. as you can't even build them either, I think, in MWiF

France should have their TERRitorials in a force pool, and the Senegal MIL. those could be built with loans from the other Allies, such as via a US Entry option Lend-Lease to Western Allies, or from Winston. And then in 1941 they would get lots of nifty new units, and on through the war - quite good units actually. One approach would be to loan France a few BP per turn, save them up, and have them build a factory. This might tax the MWiF systems a bit, from what I've read here. you might want to wait for what my friend Bob calls "Uncle Sugar" to hand out the goods in this case. Winnie will soon need to give his "on the beaches, on the fields and in the streets, in the hills" speech and CW BPs will be rather precious while they fight in their Finest Hour now.

but no, the French can not cooperate with the CW, until perhaps the CW Liberates Paris. but I think you made the right decision. I believe the French battle fleet left port before the end of July, and perhaps stayed at sea? or returned to base in Africa? Either way, if the French couldn't place a reinforcement, neither could they have re-organized the Fleet.

[composer99]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

So presumably the French "rump" is still a major power - albeit one that cannot produce (no factories) and that still cannot co-operate with the CW?

1 - Yes, France is still a major power. (Think of the government having fled from Paris to wherever - as it fled to Bordeaux, IIRC, during the actual war, and moving on from there to the colonies.)

2 - Yes, France is unable to produce until someone lends it enough bps for it to build a factory (although that's probably too much lending...)

3 - Yes, France does not cooperate with the CW, but will eventually cooperate with the US. (This is, I think, a hole in the rules. IMO an unconquered (or incompletely conquered) France should eventually cooperate with the CW.)

[warspite1]

This is the state of play in North Africa. Not a single land unit to defend the French possessions with....

I'll add lending to the French from the US to my list.

[brian brian]

I agree with the rule actually. The French bitterly protested the CW decision to withdraw several fighter squadrons from France, and cited it as one of the reasons they declared Paris an Open City as the government fled to Bordeaux, iirc. French disagreements with the CW on landing more troops after Dunkirk were also cited as a reason to sign the Armistice, again iirc.

If your country has been completely unexpectedly conquered by a new style of warfare, a human nature thing to do would be to blame it on your Ally leaving you in the lurch. And then not work well with them, moving forward. It wasn't easy for the British and French to be Allies after centuries of being enemies…a lot of mistrust, particularly on the French side.

[brian brian]

An upside for the French here is that the Italians already used their Surprise Impulse. So they can't just invade a hex in French North Africa as easily as they might if Italy was still neutral.

This game is an example of how interning the Bearn shouldn't be as automatic an Allied decision as some players think.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: brian brian

I agree with the rule actually. The French bitterly protested the CW decision to withdraw several fighter squadrons from France, and cited it as one of the reasons they declared Paris an Open City as the government fled to Bordeaux, iirc. French disagreements with the CW on landing more troops after Dunkirk were also cited as a reason to sign the Armistice, again iirc.

If your country has been completely unexpectedly conquered by a new style of warfare, a human nature thing to do would be to blame it on your Ally leaving you in the lurch. And then not work well with them, moving forward. It wasn't easy for the British and French to be Allies after centuries of being enemies…a lot of mistrust, particularly on the French side.

warspite1

At the time of the armistice the French had loads of aircraft in its depots unused.....

From the air university Review 1985.

Since the mid-1960s, fragments of information--aviator's memoirs, production reports, aircraft inventories, and Anglo-French correspondence--have come to light. These sources reveal four new facts about the French Air Force.
•The French aviation industry (with modest assistance--about 15 percent-from American and Dutch producers) had produced enough modern combat aircraft (4360) by May 1940 to defeat the Luftwaffe, which fielded a force of 3270.
•The French planes were comparable in combat capability and performance to the German aircraft.
•The French had only about one-fourth of their modern combat aircraft in operational formations on the Western Front on 10 May 1940.
•The Royal Air Force stationed a larger proportion (30 percent) of its fighter force in France than the French committed from their own resources (25 percent).

Interesting stuff....


After Dunkirk, the number of British troops available was never going to tip the balance - and the number of troops with equipment was even less.

As you say, there were difficulties in the whole French / British relationship that only 30-odd years of Entente Cordiale could not simply erase.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: composer99

ORIGINAL: warspite1

So presumably the French "rump" is still a major power - albeit one that cannot produce (no factories) and that still cannot co-operate with the CW?

3 - Yes, France does not cooperate with the CW, but will eventually cooperate with the US. (This is, I think, a hole in the rules. IMO an unconquered (or incompletely conquered) France should eventually cooperate with the CW.)

warspite1

I agree to an extent. But its like the minor countries not co-operating rule. I think you can make the case for - some should (Holland / Belgium possibly?) and some definitely shouldn't (Hungary/Romania). But WIF likes to keep things simple doesn't it and not have a load of special rules if it can help it (which is usually a good decision).

[JeffroK]

Its hard to have a rule based on an historical event which may never happen in game, or maybe have a % possibility of co-ordination.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Its hard to have a rule based on an historical event which may never happen in game, or maybe have a % possibility of co-ordination.

warspite1

Indeed - that is why I am ultimately in favour of ADG's one rule for all.

[composer99]

My brother once borrowed a book that discussed euphemism in the English language, in which the author explained that the strongest epithet in the (UK) diplomat's vernacular was "unfortunate", which was reserved for dealings with the French.

So my preferences aside I can buy ongoing non-cooperation issues between the CW and France. (Although IMO, at least in-game, the entry of the US into the war should put paid to such issues.)

I should note, however, that the universally applicable rules for cooperation are the rules pertaining to minor countries.

Each major power already has unique rules regarding who it may cooperate with (the default being non-cooperation unless explicitly specified otherwise).

---

Staying on topic of the actual game in progress, the French may be required to retire from the Med temporarily, until they have some of their own land units to defend their ports (primarily Oran). I don't know where they're going to scrape together the land units, but I suppose the CW needs to churn them out to defend North Africa until lending kicks in.