Any news on the 1.08 patch?

[Joel Billings]

We are not a large company. We are a very small company. Basically I have to get Pavel to make a release exe (he has a full time job and is working on critical WitW items and is on the other side of the globe from me). Next, I have to assemble all the files from Dominik, and then pass them on in the format that Matrix would like them to be in. I happen to be working on a deadline now for the WitW manual, while also dealing with several issues with WitW that need immediate attention, and many others that need attention but won't get it immediately. As it is, my wife complains that I spend too much time working on these silly games. Once I have the files to Matrix, they then have to put it in their production queue. They are a bigger company than 2by3, but not much bigger in terms of number of employees. Yet they produce tons of games every year, all of them requiring periodic updating. Dominik, Dennis and the WitE testers have done a fantastic job working on this 1.08 patch. It is absolutely true that we had to end our support of WitE and without these guys no further work on WitE would have happened. We cannot continue to work on a game endlessly when there is little revenue to be gained from it (yes, even if this patch made the game so perfect that everyone agreed it was the best operational Eastern Front game ever made, it would still earn us relatively few extra dollars). I'm sorry if some of you have pushed WitE to the point where you are disappointed, but I'd bet that for every one of you there are 100 customers happy with WitE and the number of hours of enjoyment they got from the game. We cannot continue to support a product for that 1 out of 100 (I will admit the 1 is vocal).

The interesting thing about our customer base is it's pretty experienced and savvy (I could say old, but I wont't go there). Many of you have a lot of business experience and know the position we are in. We do the best we can with the resources we have. We aren't Microsoft or Google and you can be sure we aren't making Microsoft or Google wages. When people like Dominik and Dennis come along and are willing to volunteer a lot of their time to improve a game, we say thank you very much and let them go at it. We try to support them the best that we can. Feel free to believe what you want about the evil 2by3 and Matrix, but be sure to appreciate what these volunteers have done. We will get the patch out as soon as we can. It's nice to know that people are excited to see it come out.

And please, everyone, stop the name calling.

[charlie0311]

Joel, very well stated. Some of my remarks have been out of line. There was NEVER any intention to paint 2x3 as "evil". My opinion, well substantiated, is that wite 1.0 was released prematurely. The question is if there is a viable solution going forward. 2x3 seems to have decided to, and are, going forward with witw. I wish you success. I hope you guys have alpha and beta'd and whatever else so you/we don't get a replay of the wite adventure

[PS Pita]

Joel, my apologies, you obviously aren't a large company (not even like EA) thank God!) and I do appreciate the fact that so much work is being done to make us or most of us happy with WITE.


Love your games and hope WITW to be a big success for you.

[Sorta]

I haven't made any posts about 1.08 as it will arrive when it arrives and I'm having a fun PBEM right now. However I would like to take this opportunity to make a pre-emptive apology.

[rsallen64]

If it wasn't for small companies like 2by3 and Matrix, etc., I wouldn't hardly have any games to play. God knows I can't tolerate 99.9% of the fluff released as games by the market today. So, thank you so much for all you do, as well as all the work done by the dedicated fans that add content, mods, patches, etc. I am truly in your debt...[&o]

[hfarrish]

-

[Wuffer]

ORIGINAL: hfarrish

ORIGINAL: rsallen64

If it wasn't for small companies like 2by3 and Matrix, etc., I wouldn't hardly have any games to play. God knows I can't tolerate 99.9% of the fluff released as games by the market today. So, thank you so much for all you do, as well as all the work done by the dedicated fans that add content, mods, patches, etc. I am truly in your debt...[&o]

Amen...

it takes nearly 2000 years to found the last known exploits in chess, so...

... thx morveal we are very good in time!

[cmunson]

If it wasn't for small companies like 2by3 and Matrix, etc., I wouldn't hardly have any games to play. God knows I can't tolerate 99.9% of the fluff released as games by the market today. So, thank you so much for all you do, as well as all the work done by the dedicated fans that add content, mods, patches, etc. I am truly in your debt...

Agree wholeheartedly. I have played WitE for years and it has given me countless hours of gaming enjoyment. Hats off to Matrix which allows small publishers to get their games into our hands. I don't give thanks often enough to those who work so cheaply or even for free to bring these games to us.

I don't give anyone a pass for a bad game. I have not seen one yet from Grigsby or 2by3. Any game as complicated and with as small a development team as WitE had will have bugs. I remember an early game where Stavka switched to German control. It made me laugh and I found a way to trick it back to Russian allegiance and kept playing. I would rather have that bug pop up than wait another year for the game to be released. I challenge anyone to name a game company that responds to gamer input as well as 2by3, who will fix a major bug and post an update sometimes only days after it is discovered.

Enough soap box, apologies in advance to anyone I've offended.

[swkuh]

Can always develop one's own game and, when perfected, publish. Just look over your shoulder at your roomful of programmers and historians and put them to work... not holding my breath.

Useful discussion of exploits, techniques, history, strategies is useful; that's not complaining.

[heliodorus04]

Hey, did anyone fix the units that surrendered at Stalingrad from exiting the game for the West Front with their vehicles, manpower, and irreplaceable counter, despite the fact that the game already accounts for production/manpower allocated to the other theaters of conflict?

I thought not...
Hey Mr. Billings, still not reading me?

Yeah. Still not buying War in the West, because I learned from War in the East.

Sincere thanks to Morvael and the testers.

[Aurelian]

ORIGINAL: heliodorus04

Hey, did anyone fix the units that surrendered at Stalingrad from exiting the game for the West Front with their vehicles, manpower, and irreplaceable counter, despite the fact that the game already accounts for production/manpower allocated to the other theaters of conflict?

I thought not...
Hey Mr. Billings, still not reading me?

Yeah. Still not buying War in the West, because I learned from War in the East.

Sincere thanks to Morvael and the testers.

Why fix what isn't a problem? You do know that after rebuilding they went west, right? Someone was going west, and as you're not OKW, the choice is not yours.

[misesfan]

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

ORIGINAL: heliodorus04

Hey, did anyone fix the units that surrendered at Stalingrad from exiting the game for the West Front with their vehicles, manpower, and irreplaceable counter, despite the fact that the game already accounts for production/manpower allocated to the other theaters of conflict?

I thought not...
Hey Mr. Billings, still not reading me?

Yeah. Still not buying War in the West, because I learned from War in the East.

Sincere thanks to Morvael and the testers.

Why fix what isn't a problem? You do know that after rebuilding they went west, right? Someone was going west, and as you're not OKW, the choice is not yours.

Aurelian - you know that Helio is bringing up the point that he has made much earlier on these boards. That is, 1) Manpower/vehicles/production is lost automatically in 1943 due to additional fronts opening up - see rule 21.4 (Production to other fronts) AND 2) The OB is similarly affected (press i in game to see the withdrawal schedule) AND 3) These formations are withdrawn at their current level of strength, although they were severely mauled historically at Stalingrad.

These units were not 'rebuilt' in the east, they were withdrawn to the west in order to be re-constituted. So not only do you have several large formations withdrawing from the OOB but you have a production hit as well. Double-dipping if you will.

Further, I remember this conversation proceeding into the morale hit during 1943, even if large German formations are not destroyed. One may be able to justify the production decision, but the morale decision seems capricious at best - at least to me.

[BleedingOrange]

The German player is penalized by taking that division because of something that hasn't happened in the current game. They not only pull the division, but fill it out with equipment from your pools before it goes. If the division isn't destroyed they would still have the equipment and men to form the unit that was historically sent West. It would just have a different designation. If the historical unit is sent West, the unit that wasn't destroyed should stay East.

[Denniss]

Don't forget the units that were historically destroyed during Operation Bagration etc and their setup as withdrawing from the east due to the rebuilt unit being used in the west.
Morvael is still looking for an option to trigger a unit disband instead of a withdrawal but it doesn't seem to be easily done.

At least Germany won't lose the two mot divs that withdrew and came back as inf divs (AFAIR one even became a PzG div) but now properly transform to inf divs (lost a lot of tanks and a hell lot of vehicles from this). On the other hand they will lose a Luftflotte and Fliegerkorps HQ that historically went to Italy/Africa.

[Naughteous Maximus]

There is an editor. I use it all the time to modify events, equipment, add leaders. I've got a (R.O.A) army commanded by Vlasov, that forms late in the war and is actively engaged on the eastern front. I've also added vehicles in the game that were still in development when the war ended. I've created the entire Bulgarian army, OOB, and leaders. Just waiting for them to unlock the Balkans.

[GamesaurusRex]

ORIGINAL: charlie0311

translation, 2x3 has WITW almost ready and when that's finished they will get around to the .08 patch when they feel like it.

Evidence in "two weeks" everything but marketing will be done on WITW then one month of hype, the proof is the use of the words marketing schedules.

maybe somebody could tell me why the same guys who sold us the wite fiasco will do any different with witw.

Ps one can play wite with necessary work arounds, i do, still not a decent product

This is not at all a fair assessment of WITE. It is an exceptionally complex game program, and like all complex programs, has had it's share of issues with balancing and other assorted bugs. However, I have been very pleased with the 2x3/Matrix efforts to correct these issues as they have been discovered and find WITE to be an excellent game.

The basic functionality of the program is generally free of bugs and has worked for me without incident. The game design is well thought out and is manageable to play, despite it's massive scale. There are, to be sure, remaining balancing adjustments that the players must make themselves, but these adjustments are unique to each player's tastes and can now be easily made via the newly added initial settings funtionality in the recent 1.08 patch. In my opinion, the game is an entertaining exercise in gaming the East Front Theater.

As for WITW, I am sure it is an evolutionary improvement from lessons learned in WITE. Given the history of the 2x3/Matrix efforts to continue to refine WITE after it's initial release, I have no doubt they will support WITW in similar fashion. I highly recommend WITE to anyone interested in the East Front Theater.

[cmunson]

I highly recommend WITE to anyone interested in the East Front Theater.

Indeed, any perceived balance issues are easily corrected. You can up German morale any time you want if you feel it is too low. You can use the editor to modify withdraw dates.

Most of all you can ask to be a beta tester for WitE 2.0 and see your input put into the game.

[SuluSea]

Check every day for the .08 patch to no avail.

Feeling like a kid in the back of a car saying are we there yet?


Thanks again for all your hard work Morvael!!!

[Commanderski]

I know what you mean... [:)]

[morvael]

Final .exe has been compiled and all the files were handed by 2by3 to Matrix. So they are in the last stage of the pipeline.