What a day in the city of Ottawa

[danlongman]

I once read a statement where somebody said:
"Isn't funny how so many talented musicians are Mormons?"
I thought that was one of the dumbest things I had ever read.
I do not think that any more.
I am getting out of here before somebody assigns me to
one of the tribal hate groups people are so happy to join.


" And why behold thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but consider not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
—Matthew 7:1-5 KJV (Matthew 7:1-5 other versions)

Apologies to Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle

[GaryChildress]

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

ORIGINAL: gradenko_2000

OK.

So then what is their motivation?
If its not because they were "oppressed" or were subject to economic pressure, and its not (as if some have claimed) a motivation by Islam, then what it their motivation to travel to Syria or Iraq and fight on the side of a group (ISIS) whose aims are to impose their strict (sharia) beliefs on others?

When one fights for a cause, its normally because they have something in common with, or share in the beliefs of the cause that they are fighting for.

You said it yourself - they share a belief in the cause being fought for. You do not need to be personally oppressed to want to help others whom you believe are being oppressed themselves.

In other words the Religion, thanks for admitting it.

No. As many of us are all trying to point out to you religion is not the common thread here. Please try to learn...please. For all our sakes...

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: chijohnaok

How many Christians/westerns run around beheading people, suicide bomb others, use force to impose their set of beliefs on the lives of others, and will use violence against or kill those who refuse to submit?

warspite1

I actually think you are asking that seriously....

I'm getting the %^&* out of this increasingly bizarre thread. I apologise to Matrix for getting involved in such a politically sensitive thread.

I am sensing a double standard here so I do not think you need to apoligize to Matrix. But it is kind of you to do so.

I am out as well.

[GaryChildress]

Well, me three then...

[Twotribes]

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

ORIGINAL: gradenko_2000



You said it yourself - they share a belief in the cause being fought for. You do not need to be personally oppressed to want to help others whom you believe are being oppressed themselves.

In other words the Religion, thanks for admitting it.

No. As many of us are all trying to point out to you religion is not the common thread here. Please try to learn...please. For all our sakes...

Ya cause after all the ONLY thing in common they have is they were all oppressed right? Ignore the fact that Islam teaches Jihad, ignore the fact that when a Muslim murders and kills in the name of Islam MILLIONS of Muslims cheer and praise him, ignore the fact that when a christian murders in the supposed name of God the Christian community around the world condemns him and pillories him. Just pretend Islam has nothing to do with it, bury that head foirmly in the sand and chant over and over nothing to see here, nothing to see here.

[Chijohnaok2]

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

Army of God (USA) anyone?

http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_army_of_god.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_of_God_(United_States)

One example you provide.

I never said that there were not examples of contemporary violent acts committed by some in the name of Christianity (or a purported Christian belief).

I did say however to look at it from a statistical viewpoint:

Weekly Jihad Report
Oct 18 - Oct 24
Jihad Attacks: 58

Allah Akbars*: 10

Dead Bodies: 417

Critically Injured: 519

*Suicide Attacks
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

There were more people killed and injured in Jihadist attacks in one week in October than in the entire history of this "Army of God" group.

Which movement is (statistically) more dangerous?

One can look at the numbers and draw a conclusion from that....or one can bury their head in the sand and simply ignore the facts/reality.


"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."
― Aldous Huxley

"Living is Easy with Eyes Closed."
― John Lennon


This is my last post in this thread.

No amount of discussion will change the minds of those that refuse to acknowledge facts.

[gradenko2k]

12.7% of all Muslims, about 204 million of them, live in Indonesia. Are you really comfortable with lumping exactly all of them into the "all of these people are violent Jihadists" over the actions of less a tenth of their co-religionists? What about the ones in Uzbekistan, Bangladesh, Algeria, Morocco and China?

Because if you are, then that's hardly "judging by their actions" and is really falling into the same rhetoric that their radical extremists use to justify their own movement.

[Twotribes]

ORIGINAL: gradenko_2000

12.7% of all Muslims, about 204 million of them, live in Indonesia. Are you really comfortable with lumping exactly all of them into the "all of these people are violent Jihadists" over the actions of less a tenth of their co-religionists? What about the ones in Uzbekistan, Bangladesh, Algeria, Morocco and China?

Because if you are, then that's hardly "judging by their actions" and is really falling into the same rhetoric that their radical extremists use to justify their own movement.

Meanwhile you make excuses for the vast majority that in fact are supporters of terrorism and murder.

[gradenko2k]

I'm not even arguing that those that are actively supporters of terrorism and murder should not face the full consequences of their actions, nor that their actions are justified.

All I'm pointing out is that a person is not instantly a terrorist nor a murderer simply for being a practicing Muslim.

[Zap]

I had to change some of your words to accommodate the other culprits in society.

What upsets me sometimes is people who were born to Secular (Atheist, agnostics)
families in Western Europe or North America make judgments of others
based on the lofty moral state that they were born into through no actions
of their own. This kind of unthinking tribalism is the root of a lot of
evil. When I see the comments of left wing type bigots
in my society I get the feeling that these are the very same kind of people who embrace
the jihad in Muslim countries. Violent intolerance is a religion all it's
own and it can hide inside any other Secular culture. People forget that their secular ideology
and their culture are overwhelming derived from who their parents were and where they
were born. It is not some gift of superior thinking or intellect that others
lack by nature. Some of our friends here in North Am would be perfectly content
in taking part, at least verbally, in the jihad if the sandal was on the other foot.
I know a lot of people first hand who would have gleefully joined Stalin in his
crusade against freedom if they had been born in Russia instead of USA!
(They had neat uniforms, armbands and cool tanks!!!!!!)
Where you were born does not automatically make you and yours superior or inferior people.
There are many different ways to slaughter or oppress innocents to further your political aim. And the communist, Marxists used them.

[Chijohnaok2]

BUMP
( I am not posting comments in this thread--simply bumping it)

[Orm]

Edit: Late as usual.

[PipFromSlitherine]

Yeah. Locking this up. Sorry guys.

Cheers

Pip