Fools Rush In Where Angels Fear To Tread: Panjack (A) vs. Q-Ball (J)

[Panjack]

Tourist brochures for North Australia are now printed in Japanese and the finest restaurants in Darwin now serve wallaby tempura. Portland Roads has also been seized.

[Panjack]

Northern China: Japanese units were moving toward Lanchow but have now stopped somewhere in the red circle. Perhaps their move was largely to get me to move units to Lanchow to defend the city so these Chinese units are not available further south, where lots of action is occurring. Or perhaps the Japanese units are merely pausing to let supply catch up with them and they'll be moving once again in a few days.

The unit at the top has an uncertain destination. But with its long supply line I don't think it can go much further and still be effective. But who knows. Maybe its function is just to guard the northern flank of the units moving toward Lanchow. So much unknown!

[Panjack]

Sian Sector: Things are temporarily stable here. Chinese units were forced out of 3x terrain into the 2x terrain of the weak point indicated on the map. But I now have enough units to hold this key hex for awhile. But Japanese airplanes are relentlessly bombing this hex and those around it. Q-Ball is clearly interested in advancing here.

[Panjack]

Changsa Sector: Things were going SO well here but the relentless advance of Japanese forces here has caused many local Chinese political leaders to look for new housing in Chungking.

The "Bulge" slowly developed and was under control as it involved only 2 units. But now 6 Japanese units are now moving into this area. It's hard for me to get units here but I do think this advance will eventually be stopped. I hope.

Then: Oh no! 30k+ Japanese troops pushed out the defenders in the 3x hex and are now headed (they hope) into Nirvana: a clear terrain hex. But tomorrow a 400-AV Chinese unit will move into the hex with the advancing Japanese troops and other units are on their way. About 2000k of Chinese AV are in the area and I hope they can stop this Japanese advance. The threat of these Japanese units forced me to abandon Kukong, which I was likely foolish to try to hold so long because the units there should have been defending where the break in the line occurred.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Panjack

3. Karachi is important, but Bombay is the jewel. If you hold it he hasn't finished India. It's a huge industrial powerhouse. But it's only as good as the internal supply of Resources once he sieges. Production of Resources will stop....
Here's what I now have at Bombay:
Supply: 350k
Fuel: 160k
Resources: 130k

I need to read up, again, about production.

Do. But once an enemy is in the base hex Resources and Oil stop being produced from the ground. HI and LI continue to produce from in-stock amounts as long as they last. All LI needs is Resources. So pile it in. In stock Bombay makes only 60 Resources, but has about double that in LI capacity. HI also needs Resources, plus fuel. 130k isn't nearly enough.

I've been shipping fuel to Aden for a bit using xAPs and xAKs but they move so little and I only have 20k there. I'm now adding TKs to the job. I understand the need to have transports located in Aden for move reinforcements (if they appear) but it hurts me to imagine I might have a huge number ("hundreds"!) of transports just sitting in Aden waiting for a moment they can move reinforcements onto the map. I'm going to have to think about exactly how many transports I might need in Aden and what my plan will be when the time comes to move them. Certainly I need to have a bushel and a peck of transports sitting in Aden but I'm going to try to figure out how to do this in the most efficient way.[/b]

By "hundreds" I include shooters and small escorts/ASW. Not all transports. But look at the ER packages. You need enough transport to land very quickly as you may be doing so under fire. You don't need to tie them up camping in Aden for very long. Not the rest of the year or anything similar. But once he closes the naval door it's very hard to get them in. Cutting the corner NW of Scoodra is your only hope, and he can make that expensive.

4. Keep the amphib bonus expiration date in mind. He is. Once it expires it's much harder for him to do emerging, on-the-fly landings anywhere. Let that be a guideline for when he's coming if he's coming. You don't have many weeks to get ready.
When does it expire?

April 1. There has been debate on and off whether it has a small randomizer +/- But April 1 is a good rule of thumb.

[/quote]

[Panjack]

February 28, 1942
---------------------

Great Victory by the Beleaguered Chinese Army

Turn Back Japanese Attack 150 Miles East of Sian

Heavy Japanese Casualties Reported

[font="Courier New"]
Ground combat at 86,41 (near Loyang)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 34074 troops, 218 guns, 198 vehicles, Assault Value = 1113

Defending force 53148 troops, 215 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1279

Japanese adjusted assault: 475

Allied adjusted defense: 1911

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 4

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
3584 casualties reported
Squads: 10 destroyed, 365 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 25 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 24 disabled

Allied ground losses:
1389 casualties reported
Squads: 24 destroyed, 71 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 22 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled

Assaulting units:
17th Division
7th Ind.Mixed Brigade
12th Tank Regiment
4th Ind.Mixed Brigade
5th Tank Regiment
59th Infantry Brigade

Defending units:
23rd Chinese Corps
1st Chinese Corps
38th Chinese Corps
61st Chinese Corps
9th Chinese Corps
42nd Chinese Corps
76th Chinese Corps
7th Group Army
8th Group Army
15th Group Army
36th Group Army
[/font]

[Lokasenna]

In my experience, it's April 1. Hard stop.


What's he going to do with Portland Roads? Don't let him get Townsville on the cheap.


You should be able to send at least 1 Australian Division somewhere, to an island, without risking the defense of the little continent. The 1st Aus ID is the easiest to recombine, but there are other options.

[Panjack]

Moose,

I'm trying to draw all the resources I can to Bombay but not much is being drawn. Lots of resources are down Calcutta way, but they don't seem inclined to move up to my city of choice. Maybe if I set some city between the two cities to stockpile resources that might move them closer to Bombay.

[Panjack]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
...What's he going to do with Portland Roads? Don't let him get Townsville on the cheap.

You should be able to send at least 1 Australian Division somewhere, to an island, without risking the defense of the little continent. The 1st Aus ID is the easiest to recombine, but there are other options.

Thanks for the suggestions and insights.

Now Coen (the base south of Portland Roads) has turned red. I've sent a small Aussie armored car unit and a small Aussie tank unit driving up to the Coen area to see what's coming and, I hope, delay or stop it/them. But at 30 experience they likely won't do much.

I've only sent a couple of very small units to Noumea, but would like to send more. I'll need look more closely at units in Oz to see if I really can spare a whole division to Noumea...that seems like a whole lot to me right now!

[GreyJoy]

Great victory east of Sian, but don't overlook: Brad only used small infantry LCUs (mistake) and that +2 hex won't be holdable for long he commits full IDs and, above all, his bombers army.

At Changsha, if that 400 AV unit manages to get to the hex from where the japs are coming, you should be safe for the moment. However the real weak spot of the whole sector is the dot base 2 hexes south of Changsha (don't remember the name now). It's a rough terrain hex and, being a base-hex, supplies tend not to remain there.

If i was you, i would already send a decent corp to dig in the +3 hex south of Chikkiang, on the main road, just beyond the river. That is a key-hex for the control of the whole sector, once the japs will break through (and they will, sooner or later).

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Great victory east of Sian, but don't overlook: Brad only used small infantry LCUs (mistake) and that +2 hex won't be holdable for long he commits full IDs and, above all, his bombers army.

At Changsha, if that 400 AV unit manages to get to the hex from where the japs are coming, you should be safe for the moment. However the real weak spot of the whole sector is the dot base 2 hexes south of Changsha (don't remember the name now). It's a rough terrain hex and, being a base-hex, supplies tend not to remain there.

If i was you, i would already send a decent corp to dig in the +3 hex south of Chikkiang, on the main road, just beyond the river. That is a key-hex for the control of the whole sector, once the japs will break through (and they will, sooner or later).

+1

Also, that incursion south of Hengyang is going to be a thorn. You've already lost hex side control, so you're only hope here is the slowness of movement into the area and the lack of supply flow through the non-road wooded hex. You may want to keep units (ones you don't mind losing) in that x3 hex just North of Kukong to stop movement up that road. If he opens that road, bombs the bejesus out of anything in the clear South of Hengyang, you're toast.

The river crossing to Hengyang is the most dangerous of all in Central China for two reasons. One, it's on a road and supply will quickly fill in to the advancing Japanese hordes. Two, it is so far behind your line that he'll just push to Chikhiang after crossing before you can abandon Psingyiang and the other forward hexes in front of Changsha. You'll have a nice big pocket forming but worse, the Japanese will ignore that for now and simply move deep into your rear in blitz-urai style and take bases that should last months with good defense later.

If I were him now would come 200+ bombers on everything in the clear hex and about 2k AV of 4-5 divisions moving up from Kukong with as many tanks and artillery as he can find.

[Panjack]

GreyJoy and Obvert: thanks for your insights!

I guess that putting a big unit in the hex south of Chikkiang is to hinder the Japanese from moving toward Changsha if they take Chikkiang itself? And I guess defending the hex just north of Kukong is an important exception to the rule (in China) to not defend forward. But at least it's in 3x terrain.

The 400 AV Chinese unit was able to block the movement forward into Nirvana, the clear hex. After a Chinese bombardment, the Japanese did a DA but it was at 1-15 odds and did nothing. A unit is moving from the clear terrain hex into the now-contested hex and this will regain control of that important hex side. Q-Ball does seem to be shifting his bombers to this sector and lots of stuff is falling from the sky onto my brave soldiers defending this approach to Changsha.

Defending China is like putting fingers in the proverbial leaky dike: you keep putting your fingers in the leaks but at some point you just run out of fingers and the whole thing threatens to fall down. I feel like I'm up to 7 fingers now and can only plug up 3 more holes before I run out of units to block the Japanese advances.

[Panjack]

Double-checked to see what India-invasion reinforcements would appear in the scenario we're playing (DaIronBabes C). Turns out a slight difference exists with other scenarios. The Waziristan Division, which instantly appears in Karachi in regular scenarios, is already on the map at the start of the game in our scenario. So no immediate bump up in AV in Karachi after an India "invasion." Too bad. Everything appears in Aden or Abandan. Below is the message giving the relevant info.

So in our scenario: [changed as noted in posting below]

Appearing in Aden
XXI Corp HQ: 2,700 troop load; 0 cargo load
10th Indian: 12,000; 23,000
31st Armored: 4,000; 18,000
8th Indian: 13,000; 19,000
5th Indian: 11,000; 16,000
XXI Corp engineers: 1,900; 1,300

I think that's a total of 44,600 in troop load and 77,300 in cargo load in Aden. Maybe that's about 50 or so transports.

Appearing in Abadan
6th Indian 13,000 troop load; 9,000 cargo load. That's maybe 10 transports.

[Bullwinkle58]

Is the Emergency Convoy Supply Convoy the same as stock?

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Panjack

GreyJoy and Obvert: thanks for your insights!

I guess that putting a big unit in the hex south of Chikkiang is to hinder the Japanese from moving toward Changsha if they take Chikkiang itself? And I guess defending the hex just north of Kukong is an important exception to the rule (in China) to not defend forward. But at least it's in 3x terrain.

The 400 AV Chinese unit was able to block the movement forward into Nirvana, the clear hex. After a Chinese bombardment, the Japanese did a DA but it was at 1-15 odds and did nothing. A unit is moving from the clear terrain hex into the now-contested hex and this will regain control of that important hex side. Q-Ball does seem to be shifting his bombers to this sector and lots of stuff is falling from the sky onto my brave soldiers defending this approach to Changsha.

Defending China is like putting fingers in the proverbial leaky dike: you keep putting your fingers in the leaks but at some point you just run out of fingers and the whole thing threatens to fall down. I feel like I'm up to 7 fingers now and can only plug up 3 more holes before I run out of units to block the Japanese advances.

It'll be twelve fingers soon.

Great job stopping that advance through the woods. That is huge and will buy some time.

The only reason to defend forward on that road is that it's the only x3 hex available. not ideal, but it also takes time for him to try to maneuver around if he wants to do so, and you can bring units up the road to reinforce if needed. Those wooded hexes, like the one you just got into, might mean your troops there get isolated (due to slow movement in and out) if he breaks through elsewhere. Only keep what you need in them to stop his advance and make sure he can't win the battle.

You'll have to keep a watch for other attempts to get around your blocks, but the real weak point is now the x2 hex at Pingsiang. He can also knock your forts out since it's a base hex, and fighting tanks in x2 with air strikes in China is not fun. You can delay here, but I'd get especially troop like those next to Changsha (in the woods) back sooner rather than later. Prepare for the Pingsiang hex to fail, and make sure you know what to do wen it looks like it's about to go.

The hex below Chikhiang is simply a tough one to crack for the Japanese but an important road once they break through in the middle. They will eventually so the more forts you have already built the longer you can hold it later. It my game with GJ it took 3 months of intense fighting for him to get this hex, only to take almost two more for Chikhiang itself, so from this game and others he knows that it's important!

The hex to the West of Chikhiang that he's moving toward through the woods must surely be considered, but you mainly have to stop his advance in the woods x3 there off road. Tough for him to sustain attacks in that territory, so if you stop one he could get stuck.

[Panjack]

I changed the numbers above for troops and cargo. I had previously just used the screen shots Mr. Moose had presented for his investigation of the emergency package. But it turns out that the units appearing in our scenario seem to have somewhat different components. The components above are what appear in DaIronBabes C.

[Panjack]

Below is the emergency supply package. I don't know how it compares to the stock package, nor if it varies with when the package appears. Nor do I know with PDU off (what we're using) which of these AC are really available to current units.

Edit: I compared the below to what Mr. Moose got fb.asp?m=2616667

The numbers for the devices seem the same but the number on the left for "supplies" is very different. In stock supplies equals 200 but in the screen shot below (from our scenario) the number is 180,000! This supply gets dumped at Aden. I guess no reason to ship more supplies to Aden (as I'm now doing).


[font="Tahoma"][/font]

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Panjack

Below is the emergency supply package. I don't know how it compares to the stock package, nor if it varies with when the package appears. Nor do I know with PDU off (what we're using) which of these AC are really available to current units.

Edit: I compared the below to what Mr. Moose got fb.asp?m=2616667

The numbers for the devices seem the same but the number on the left for "supplies" is very different. In stock supplies equals 200 but in the screen shot below (from our scenario) the number is 180,000! This supply gets dumped at Aden. I guess no reason to ship more supplies to Aden (as I'm now doing).


[font="Tahoma"][/font]

Later on, don't recall when, Aden gets a bunch of the supply convoys CT gets early. Not in 1942 I don't think, but after Aden opens to the Med. It's millions of units by the end of the game.

Yeah, I don't know how PDU OFF would affect you being able to pull the Spits into a unit now that will upgrade to them eventually. Might prevent it; don't know. The 25-pounder guns are very valuable though, as are the Indian 1942 squads.

Every day that ticks by and he doesn't come is a good day.

[witpqs]

Better you check the ground unit arrivals for country Commonwealth - in DBB all the Aden and Panama Canal convoys got re-done and in the version that I am playing they all go to Cape Town.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Better you check the ground unit arrivals for country Commonwealth - in DBB all the Aden and Panama Canal convoys got re-done and in the version that I am playing they all go to Cape Town.

What I know about DBB is minimal. Thanks.