Greyjoy(J) vs. Obvert(A) - The air war in China- DBB, SLs, PDU OFF

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

That was a very good day for you Nic. [:)] The Allies don't have the B-24 production numbers to replace those losses until 2/43. That is one whole BG (48 planes) now out of action.

Yes, that's a good day Micheal. Also these days are a negative boost for the allied squadrons morale. I know, by experience, how fast the morale of those 4E squadrons can drop after a day like this.

In fact, on Nov 10th, the allies have evacuated most of the bases around Madras. The basterds moved back their whole air force. That means Madras can breath again and my squadrons are back to their max strenght[:D]

[GreyJoy]

10th Nov

CENTPAC: allied bombers keep on pounding Makin and Mili. An invasion is likely anytime soon now. I am moving some stuff to this sector, but won't be able to do much for a while i guess

[uncivil_servant]

Really dumb question - But I don't see the draw of playing DBB as this game, and another game, makes it so easy for the IJ forces to conquer all of China and to actually invade India, at the same time the base game allows industrial specialization enabling them to churn out planes fast er than the Arsenal of Democracy did.

Serious question - I don't see the draw of the hyper unrealistic capabilities and apparent near impossible mountain to climb to take any of it back.

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: uncivil_servant

Really dumb question - But I don't see the draw of playing DBB as this game, and another game, makes it so easy for the IJ forces to conquer all of China and to actually invade India, at the same time the base game allows industrial specialization enabling them to churn out planes fast er than the Arsenal of Democracy did.

Serious question - I don't see the draw of the hyper unrealistic capabilities and apparent near impossible mountain to climb to take any of it back.

You will get little traction or sympathies for your perspective here.
Most PBEM players have accepted the reality of a game skewed in favor of the Japanese under the guise of the argument that the side HAS to be enhanced to make it a viable side for any gamer to want to play.
I've tried repeatedly to make the point, also with little traction, that the "argument" begs for an enhancement of the Japanese side AFTER the tide has turned against them and NOT at game start which enables them to run rampant and conquer most of the map.
It is what it is and any attempts to curtail Japanese uberness meets with loud vocal opposition from the plethora of JFBs.

You will be told that if you want history read a book or watch a movie. You will be told this is a game and not a simulation, although those telling you turn a blind eye to the simple reality that it is BOTH.
If it was just a game and not a simulation, it would be chess or Big Blue against Great Red and NOT a depiction of a variant of WWII.

In other words give up now and save yourself the grief I have encountered.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: uncivil_servant

Really dumb question - But I don't see the draw of playing DBB as this game, and another game, makes it so easy for the IJ forces to conquer all of China and to actually invade India, at the same time the base game allows industrial specialization enabling them to churn out planes fast er than the Arsenal of Democracy did.

Serious question - I don't see the draw of the hyper unrealistic capabilities and apparent near impossible mountain to climb to take any of it back.

You're missing the critical point. DBB does not make it easier than stock for Japan to conquer China. It makes it more difficult. Various discussions have centered around whether it is yet difficult enough.

Nor does DBB make it easier to invade India. Nor does DBB allow for more IJ aircraft production.

[Yaab]

ORIGINAL: uncivil_servant

Really dumb question - But I don't see the draw of playing DBB as this game, and another game, makes it so easy for the IJ forces to conquer all of China and to actually invade India, at the same time the base game allows industrial specialization enabling them to churn out planes fast er than the Arsenal of Democracy did.

Serious question - I don't see the draw of the hyper unrealistic capabilities and apparent near impossible mountain to climb to take any of it back.

Wait until you see China in the RHS mod. The horror, the horror!

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: uncivil_servant

Really dumb question - But I don't see the draw of playing DBB as this game, and another game, makes it so easy for the IJ forces to conquer all of China and to actually invade India, at the same time the base game allows industrial specialization enabling them to churn out planes fast er than the Arsenal of Democracy did.

Serious question - I don't see the draw of the hyper unrealistic capabilities and apparent near impossible mountain to climb to take any of it back.

'
Why do you think DBB makes it easier to conquer China and/or India than Stock?

DBB has stacking limits (which, for example in China, favours the defender) and, above all, refineries do not produce supplies, which measn that every sip of supply you spend overseas must be brought by ship from Japan. Just these two things should make you consider DBB harder than stock.
Then the enanched AA (which means the japanese bombers are doomed against anything really defended) and the reduced cargo...

in a word: i don't see your point. DBB surely isn't easier than stock for Japan. Probably even more difficult, but easier no, not at all

[GreyJoy]

Some good news coming from the continent and some bad ones from SOPAC/CENTPAC....

[GreyJoy]

Nov 11-15, 1942

India: deadly quiet. I'm waiting for another air offensive against Madras or Ceylon.

China: here are the good news. The tank army (1 Tank ID + 9 tank regiments) managed to reach Kweyang unmolested from the east! Erik, for some reasons, decided not to defend the +3 hex east of Kweyang, focusing on my "artillery army" on the main road that leads from Chikkiang to Kweyiang. My tanks used all their mobility to move on rough terrain and, some of them, reached the +3 hex east of Kweiyang and then marched on the major road directly to the city. Now the squeezing movement is almost completed and we can now focus on fighting on +2 terrain, using all the power of my tanks. If we will manage to take Kweyang, then another big pocket will be formed and we could drive north.

CENTPAC/SOPAC: here are the bad news. The allies, after a long series of unmolested bombardments, conquer Makin and start to target Mili and the bases north.
At the same time Onnekotan Java is threatened and they have landed at Lunga unmolested. The whole Solomons are now in their hands. I tried to test his air defences over Tulagi/Lunga...sent 45+27 planes on sweep... result? Despite the numbers were in my favour, i lost 35 zeros and 12 Oscars to only 12 enemy's planes...a debacle![X(]
BBs spotted at Tarawa.... the CVs must be nearby.
I have a strong SCTF and some CVs in the area, but i don't feel that confortable to attack now, untill i know where his CVs are...
However, the truth is that by november 1942 the allies already are where they were, in RL, in mid 1943...sad but true. That's the price to be paid for the Indian/Western Oz strategy...oh well

[GreyJoy]

Ok guys, I am becoming a bit nervous. My general strategy is not working as well as I had hoped.
The allies are advancing too fast and too bold, almost everywhere and I am losing the grip on the whole pacific theatre.
Need to understand and decide what to do.

The Marshalls are compromised. The loss of Makin and the inability to defend Nauru Island is now completely clear to my eyes. The Allies are ready to get to Onnekotan Java, thus cutting Nauru garrison from any attempt of relief and exposing my whole right flank of Rabaul-Bouganville complex to a flanking manoeuvre.
At the same time, the strong presence of the allies on Tagula and nearby islands, make the whole southern New Guinea at risk, and, at the moment, I have very little to stop them.

The idea is to fight, yes, but committing only a shadow force and, where possible, fall back without getting too many troops cut out and isolated.

But fall back where...???

My idea now is a defensive line that goes from Sarmi-Biak to the Mariannas-Truk-Ponape-Wake.
Everything beyond this line, Rabaul-Bouganville, PM and New Guinea and the Marshalls included, will only have a shadow force...in order not to give up anything for free...but can't really hope to stop them if they are really committed... I need to gain time in order to create a defensive line that is solid...which is not easy considering how few my engineers units are.
I also need to solidify the Horn-Island-Mereuake-Darwin line, if I want to avoid a push to the hear of the DEI from that side.

Port Hedland-Broome will be my new defensive line in Oz.

But one thing is clear... my perimeter is way too big now. I need to get rid of China asap, in order to be able to fall back from India and shrink the western perimeter. The situation is dire...really dire. I should have been more conservative. The way I did with QBall was the right way, imho. I should have known better...

But live and learn! This war is yet to be fought

[Cribtop]

Don't panic, but there is cause for concern.

IMHO Ponape is the key to the region you are fighting in now.

[Yaab]

Greyjoy, where is your Umboi Festung? DO you have MTBs and SSXs, Wake CD unit, Oscars IIb, etc. in place?

Gary Oldman on Umboi Fetsung: "EVERYYOOOONEEEE!"

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

Don't panic, but there is cause for concern.

IMHO Ponape is the key to the region you are fighting in now.

Ponape is very well defended, thanks God. Already 340 AVs behind 5 forts, with 40k supplies, mines, heavy artillery and flak. Should be well safe for a while

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Greyjoy, where is your Umboi Festung? DO you have MTBs and SSXs, Wake CD unit, Oscars IIb, etc. in place?

Gary Oldman on Umboi Fetsung: "EVERYYOOOONEEEE!"

Umboi is being built, but it cannot be defended if Finshtafen isn't built and well guarded too. That's why I am sending several units there, in order to build up that base too.

Let's see if Erik will give me the time to do so or not...

[GreyJoy]

Nov 16-17, 1942

Bad news.
West of Kweyang we got another bloody nose. 1-2 despite the heavy air bombings and the presence of 2 tank divisions. The lack of supplies is dooming my attacks there...
The only good thing is that we've reached Kweyiang from the east and, even if I don't know how many forts Erik got there, I am confident I will be able to get the city once my Divisions will arrive (will take a couple of weeks tough).

In centpac, the allied CVs made their appearance! Our Betties attacked an enemy's TF near Makin and got butchered by a CAP composed by Wildcats coming from CVs and CVEs... BBs and CVs are also spotted directly 1 hex SE of Makin... Mili is being reconned heavily so I guess he's going to attack. Roi Namur is being reconned...so my CAP is ready.
My CVs are moving from truk as we speak, along with 2 BBs and 8 CAs... let's see if we can dance this time.

two divisions recently arrived in SOPAC, to fix some holes in our defences.

All quiet in India. moving back some of my Engineers to Burma and Sumatra. Need to start forts building.

A6M2Sen Baku will be ready in 12/42, thus letting 2 45planes sentais to upgrade to the A6M5 [&o], then we'll concentrate even more on the A6M5c and A6M8.

Oscar KI-43 IIIa should be available by 3/43. Good news.
KI-45c is now operative and have already a 42 planes sentai operating this model, in combo with the KI-45a which will remain in production until 1944 at least.

Decided to move the CS Chitose and Chyoda to Tokyo for the CVL conversions. Hope this will be the right decision.

[Sangeli]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
In centpac, the allied CVs made their appearance! Our Betties attacked an enemy's TF near Makin and got butchered by a CAP composed by Wildcats coming from CVs and CVEs... BBs and CVs are also spotted directly 1 hex SE of Makin... Mili is being reconned heavily so I guess he's going to attack. Roi Namur is being reconned...so my CAP is ready.
My CVs are moving from truk as we speak, along with 2 BBs and 8 CAs... let's see if we can dance this time.

This is a dangerous time to attack the upper Marshalls. Great opportunity for you to make the USN pay when you still have a qualitative edge in planes and pilots.

Whats your LBA situation like? In my experience LBA here can make a huge difference for the Japanese.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
In centpac, the allied CVs made their appearance! Our Betties attacked an enemy's TF near Makin and got butchered by a CAP composed by Wildcats coming from CVs and CVEs... BBs and CVs are also spotted directly 1 hex SE of Makin... Mili is being reconned heavily so I guess he's going to attack. Roi Namur is being reconned...so my CAP is ready.
My CVs are moving from truk as we speak, along with 2 BBs and 8 CAs... let's see if we can dance this time.

This is a dangerous time to attack the upper Marshalls. Great opportunity for you to make the USN pay when you still have a qualitative edge in planes and pilots.

Whats your LBA situation like? In my experience LBA here can make a huge difference for the Japanese.

Well at this point the Allies have the P38 in sufficient numbers and will start getting the corsair in two weeks. Not air superiority but certainly by concentrating these models superiority can be attained at the point of attack. Nothing in the Japanese inventory near as good.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: crsutton
Well at this point the Allies have the P38 in sufficient numbers and will start getting the corsair in two weeks. Not air superiority but certainly by concentrating these models superiority can be attained at the point of attack. Nothing in the Japanese inventory near as good.

PDU off, won't be as big a presence as normally.

One naval engagement and the Centpac stabilizes for a few months I think...

Exciting times!

[leehunt27@bloomberg.net]

How strong is the garrison at Ponape? CD's, AA units, Infantry, Arty, HQ's etc? Or garrison units with base forces? You know what I mean? My bases of the latter, even with 300 AV, have been steamrolled by just two US Marine divisions lately. Can you double that AV number and create a transport link between bases for more reinforcements, aircraft etc?

[GreyJoy]

Nov 18-27, 1942

9 more days have passed!

CHINA: here is where we're doing some progresses. Obvert abandons the hex W of Kweyiang!!! This is a great news, cause now my two arms of the pinch can close and connect at Kweyiang! The tank Army is finally re-united after a long ride started in June 42!
A good number of Chinese units moved back and are evacuating the area of Kweyiang-Tuyun, clearly seeing the threat of being cut out. The allied fighters are trying to ambush my bombers from Chungking (and sometimes they managed to!). 72 fighters spotted there.
The only bad news is that he's always falling back before I am able to inflict any defeat, so no major losses on his side and his armies keep on getting stronger every day. But we soldier on... for the moment at least! Now Kweyiang is really in sight and I am positive I can do something good there.

INDIA: quiet everywhere, except for a lot of recon at Madras, Trico, Colombo and Ansalon area.

OZ: lots of long range recon to Kalgoorite and Esperance...

SOPAC: the allies keep on building the whole Solomon complex.

CENTPAC: Mili hasn't been attacked yet since we reinforced it. The air bridge worked fine and he even tried to naval bomb it, but the CD units did make the American cruisers pay for that! Several good hits and I am pretty confident they will need some yard time!
My CVs are lingering north of the Marshalls, dancing with his subs. His CVEs are spotted (along with several BBs and CA/CLs south of Tabiutea...

In the meanwhile we're sending reinforcements to the pacific. 2 newly bought Divisions and several support units are moving down. The perimeter is slowly taking shape.

The whole KB is now equipped with the D1Y1[8D]

Economy: bad, really bad on supplies. I'm burning them at a rate I cannot really stand. Down to 2.7 millions...[:(]

RnD...some light here:
A6M2Sen Baku available on 12/42


BB Musashi has arrived![:D] now I just need to understand what to do with her[8|]