::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J)

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I would think twice about Mili -- isn't there a fairly nasty static gun unit there?

There is a fort there, but I have two BBs in the amphib TF and I've been working the base a bit already with bombers and naval bombardments. Two USN BBs will usually soak up the hits and leave the amphibs just fine. It's more a naval presence that I'm concerned with here.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I would think twice about Mili -- isn't there a fairly nasty static gun unit there?

There is a fort there, but I have two BBs in the amphib TF and I've been working the base a bit already with bombers and naval bombardments. Two USN BBs will usually soak up the hits and leave the amphibs just fine. It's more a naval presence that I'm concerned with here.

In stock, Mili Naval fort has 8x 15 cm, 3x 14 CM, 8x 12 cm and 4x 8.8 cm guns. Nothing heavy, but lots of them to mess up transports and bleed the troops on the beach.

[EHansen]

In my scenario 1 game, I did 6 or 7 Naval Bombardments with 5 BBs and there was nothing left on the island.

[mind_messing]

I think you've got the wrong axis when it comes to the Marshalls. Why work your way up the chain when you can very easily bypass it to the west?

Taking Narau and following it up by paradrops on Ebon and Namorik will give you a nice secure lodgement. Granted, none of those bases are much worth bar Narau, but they put you in a good position to make a move on Kusaie Island. Once Kusaie is yours, you'll have a size 6 airbase right in the middle of the supply line from the Marshalls to Truk and an excellent springboard to take Ponape and suppress Truk at a later date.

This route has the advantage of forcing Greyjoy's land-based air to operate at a pretty extreme range: there's a fair distance between the big airbases of the Northern Marshalls and Kusaie. Only Mili is close enough to be a real threat, and that can be easily suppressed from your bases in the Gilberts. Only the IJN 2E bombers will have the range to interfere, rather than the single-engine strike planes that will be in range if you work northwards from Makin.

I also second ny59giants point on Ailinglaplap - don't overlook this base just because it's a dot hex.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I would think twice about Mili -- isn't there a fairly nasty static gun unit there?

There is a fort there, but I have two BBs in the amphib TF and I've been working the base a bit already with bombers and naval bombardments. Two USN BBs will usually soak up the hits and leave the amphibs just fine. It's more a naval presence that I'm concerned with here.

Bomb the port.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: obvert
There is a fort there, but I have two BBs in the amphib TF and I've been working the base a bit already with bombers and naval bombardments. Two USN BBs will usually soak up the hits and leave the amphibs just fine. It's more a naval presence that I'm concerned with here.

As always, you are way ahead of me.[:)]

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

I think you've got the wrong axis when it comes to the Marshalls. Why work your way up the chain when you can very easily bypass it to the west?

Taking Narau and following it up by paradrops on Ebon and Namorik will give you a nice secure lodgement. Granted, none of those bases are much worth bar Narau, but they put you in a good position to make a move on Kusaie Island. Once Kusaie is yours, you'll have a size 6 airbase right in the middle of the supply line from the Marshalls to Truk and an excellent springboard to take Ponape and suppress Truk at a later date.

This route has the advantage of forcing Greyjoy's land-based air to operate at a pretty extreme range: there's a fair distance between the big airbases of the Northern Marshalls and Kusaie. Only Mili is close enough to be a real threat, and that can be easily suppressed from your bases in the Gilberts. Only the IJN 2E bombers will have the range to interfere, rather than the single-engine strike planes that will be in range if you work northwards from Makin.

I also second ny59giants point on Ailinglaplap - don't overlook this base just because it's a dot hex.

Thanks for this. Great ideas. Here is a map of the region and some thoughts about what I'm trying to do here.

First, this was not one of the areas I'd planned to move into this early, and I'd even considered that if I had to go late it might not be necessary at all. Nick's moves in India and China left most of the Pacific less well defended, so I've been using this as an area of opportunity while he has been occupied elsewhere. It's pretty early to hold all of the Gilberts as functioning bases and be challenging the Marshalls. I am wary of the KB coming to shut things down, and therefore my moves have to be small and less well supported.

After I challenged Ocean Island Nick reinforced Nauru to bring the total here to 9 units of about 9-10k troops. See map. With the Special Base Force here I know he's serious about holding it and will fight for it. It's also a bit closer for a run in from Rabaul/Truk, and there are still blind spots in my search on the vectors moving toward it. So I can't easily pound away to my heart's content here, and I don't want to invade until I know more about the troops that are there. I have only an incomplete list right now.

Units are prepping and it will be a target soon I hope, but for now I may as well see if I can move up the chain to Mili and beyond. These bases are less well defended (other than the naval forts, which are significant) and it's tougher for him to surprise me here without me getting a whiff of something coming. I just went in to bombard Mili and got a bit chewed up using CL and some older DDs. Nothing is in danger though, and the guns there look like they took a beating. Now for some follow-up B-25 runs and hopefully the CD guns will be less of a factor if we can make it in to land.

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[font="Trebuchet MS"]
Night Naval bombardment of Mili at 136,121 - Coastal Guns Fire Back!

441 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
CL St. Louis, Shell hits 12
CL Detroit, Shell hits 4
DD King, Shell hits 2, heavy fires
DD Gilmer, Shell hits 1
DD Clark
DD Balch
DD Bailey, Shell hits 1

Japanese ground losses:
119 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 13 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled
Guns lost 19 (1 destroyed, 18 disabled)

CL St. Louis firing at Mili Naval Fortress
Mili Naval Fortress firing at CL St. Louis
OS2U-3 Kingfisher acting as spotter for CL Detroit[/font]

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I would think twice about Mili -- isn't there a fairly nasty static gun unit there?

There is a fort there, but I have two BBs in the amphib TF and I've been working the base a bit already with bombers and naval bombardments. Two USN BBs will usually soak up the hits and leave the amphibs just fine. It's more a naval presence that I'm concerned with here.

In stock, Mili Naval fort has 8x 15 cm, 3x 14 CM, 8x 12 cm and 4x 8.8 cm guns. Nothing heavy, but lots of them to mess up transports and bleed the troops on the beach.

I'd forgotten it was so much! The 15cm and the 14cm are significant. I definitely want to shut as many down as possible before sending boots on the beaches.

[mind_messing]

Narau looks a nasty little fortress, as does Ponape. No easy flanks for you.

Considering that, your current plan seems pretty solid. Grab Mili, build it up, then jump to Ailinglaplap, sweeping Ebon, Namoirk and Jaluit up for good measure. Ailinglaplap gives you a good airbase to hit Kusaie from (and perhaps even get recon on Truk?) and to shut down the remaining Japanese bases in the Marshalls.

The only problem is where to go from there. Ponape looks pretty nasty, might be wise to leave that festung till '43 while you build on your excellent progress in the Marshalls and Gilberts.

EDIT: The 21st Special Base Force on Narau only has 4 8cm DP guns - it's not one of the IJN Base Forces with the big CD guns.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: obvert




There is a fort there, but I have two BBs in the amphib TF and I've been working the base a bit already with bombers and naval bombardments. Two USN BBs will usually soak up the hits and leave the amphibs just fine. It's more a naval presence that I'm concerned with here.

In stock, Mili Naval fort has 8x 15 cm, 3x 14 CM, 8x 12 cm and 4x 8.8 cm guns. Nothing heavy, but lots of them to mess up transports and bleed the troops on the beach.

I'd forgotten it was so much! The 15cm and the 14cm are significant. I definitely want to shut as many down as possible before sending boots on the beaches.

Looks like your bombardment did alright. I'd keep it up, but you'll need cruisers to do lots of lifting there for sure. I've found that CD guns get disabled at a decent rate just from counterbattery fire from ships in an amphib TF. I had 12 6" guns at Cocos Island a while back and it got invaded, about 1/3 of the IJN present...after 2 days of landings, I only had 5 operable guns. And that's without any port strikes...

[Lokasenna]

Why Ebon and Namorik? They're not really worth anything. Tiny islands with SPS of 0/0. I guess you could station float planes there, but... ho-hum.

Not all of the Marshalls have fortresses. The smaller ones, like Jaluit, have smaller fortresses. Mili's a bigger island and has a bigger fort. Not really cause and effect, but that's how the OOB is set up. Mostly.

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Why Ebon and Namorik? They're not really worth anything. Tiny islands with SPS of 0/0. I guess you could station float planes there, but... ho-hum.

Not all of the Marshalls have fortresses. The smaller ones, like Jaluit, have smaller fortresses. Mili's a bigger island and has a bigger fort. Not really cause and effect, but that's how the OOB is set up. Mostly.

Because making the effort to drop a few squads of paratroopers at Ebon and Namorik is worth the security of knowing that those bases won't be used by the Japanese to conduct sneaky floatplane operations.

Plus, it's two more bases you can run ships in to hide, or base PT boats from, or fly Catalina's from ect ect. Just as it's SPS is 0/0 doesn't mean it's without value!

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Why Ebon and Namorik? They're not really worth anything. Tiny islands with SPS of 0/0. I guess you could station float planes there, but... ho-hum.

Not all of the Marshalls have fortresses. The smaller ones, like Jaluit, have smaller fortresses. Mili's a bigger island and has a bigger fort. Not really cause and effect, but that's how the OOB is set up. Mostly.

Because making the effort to drop a few squads of paratroopers at Ebon and Namorik is worth the security of knowing that those bases won't be used by the Japanese to conduct sneaky floatplane operations.

Plus, it's two more bases you can run ships in to hide, or base PT boats from, or fly Catalina's from ect ect. Just as it's SPS is 0/0 doesn't mean it's without value!

I've considered them for forward intermittent use as PBY bases, but I need to be closer to suppress Roi Namur for that to happen. He'll just pound anything I put there right now unless I can reach his main bases. Hence the move up the chain.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Why Ebon and Namorik? They're not really worth anything. Tiny islands with SPS of 0/0. I guess you could station float planes there, but... ho-hum.

Not all of the Marshalls have fortresses. The smaller ones, like Jaluit, have smaller fortresses. Mili's a bigger island and has a bigger fort. Not really cause and effect, but that's how the OOB is set up. Mostly.

Because making the effort to drop a few squads of paratroopers at Ebon and Namorik is worth the security of knowing that those bases won't be used by the Japanese to conduct sneaky floatplane operations.

Plus, it's two more bases you can run ships in to hide, or base PT boats from, or fly Catalina's from ect ect. Just as it's SPS is 0/0 doesn't mean it's without value!

I've considered them for forward intermittent use as PBY bases, but I need to be closer to suppress Roi Namur for that to happen. He'll just pound anything I put there right now unless I can reach his main bases. Hence the move up the chain.

That's basically my read on it also.

[crsutton]

You and Nic are playing at a much faster pace than I am in my campaign but it really does mimic yours. I am fighting tooth and nail in India but it has cost Ark critical position in the Pacific. My advance has been through the Solomons with Rabaul just falling to my Marines. Now I got to hold it but it is hard for Ark to pull KB away from the critical fighting in India. I just don't think India is a very good idea for Japan to pursue. Yeah, there are resources and it does delay the push to the DEI, but after mid 1943, the game becomes a naval contest. And that fight takes place in the Pacific. I don't think a Japanese player can let the Allies put their foot in the door in 1942 and win. I may be totally wrong about this but we will see.

The one real advantage is that by taking India, he is effectively starving me in China and I may lose China as a result. However, I think that I am willing to lose China for a head start in the Pacific.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

You and Nic are playing at a much faster pace than I am in my campaign but it really does mimic yours. I am fighting tooth and nail in India but it has cost Ark critical position in the Pacific. My advance has been through the Solomons with Rabaul just falling to my Marines. Now I got to hold it but it is hard for Ark to pull KB away from the critical fighting in India. I just don't think India is a very good idea for Japan to pursue. Yeah, there are resources and it does delay the push to the DEI, but after mid 1943, the game becomes a naval contest. And that fight takes place in the Pacific. I don't think a Japanese player can let the Allies put their foot in the door in 1942 and win. I may be totally wrong about this but we will see.

The one real advantage is that by taking India, he is effectively starving me in China and I may lose China as a result. However, I think that I am willing to lose China for a head start in the Pacific.

+1. Going for India so early allows the Allies the opportunity to control SOPAC, which means fewer delays in getting started on the naval game.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

You and Nic are playing at a much faster pace than I am in my campaign but it really does mimic yours. I am fighting tooth and nail in India but it has cost Ark critical position in the Pacific. My advance has been through the Solomons with Rabaul just falling to my Marines. Now I got to hold it but it is hard for Ark to pull KB away from the critical fighting in India. I just don't think India is a very good idea for Japan to pursue. Yeah, there are resources and it does delay the push to the DEI, but after mid 1943, the game becomes a naval contest. And that fight takes place in the Pacific. I don't think a Japanese player can let the Allies put their foot in the door in 1942 and win. I may be totally wrong about this but we will see.

The one real advantage is that by taking India, he is effectively starving me in China and I may lose China as a result. However, I think that I am willing to lose China for a head start in the Pacific.

This may happen to me too, and I can see this is a focus by the emphasis he put on heading me off in the Patna>Darjeeling area. He gave up the whole center to Southern tip to stop me there. So it's going to be interesting to see how this idea turns. out. If I can hold him to 1-2months for each hex in China, I could conceivably still save some portion of that as well.

We're doing 2-3 turns a day now which is fun, but every few I have to do a long one and make sure I'm not forgetting critical stuff. It won't help me to go fast in real time if I'm having to go slowly in game due to missed prep assignments, not enough fuel moving forward and units waiting for transport to get into critical areas.

I certainly didn't plan on a Cent Pac strategy, but hey, I'll take it. Maybe his thinking is that I can be stopped later at more critical bases when the KB returns. This is where I have to really get moving onto New Guinea while the gettins good. If I get some established bases there it's a third vector he'll have to stop and the KB can't do as much about that one popping along the coast from base to base.

[obvert]

Here is a shot of the St Louis after the Mili bombardment. Not too bad for taking 12 shots including at least one 15cm hit. [:)]

One four-stacker, the DD King, is needing some yard time, but all other ships can reload and go again. Good news.

The other advantage of being able to start this part of the naval game early is that crews get experience in less dangerous environments. At 61/57 it's looking pretty good already.

[obvert]

[font="Times New Roman"]Nov 17 - 19, 1942[/font]

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[font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]SUBS: [/font] AM Gale puts the hurt on RO-62 with 11 hits near Makin. One direct. At least four different IJN subs are in this area. Unfortunately one of the ROs spots the amphib TF with confirmed BB/AP/AK. No more surprise there.

[font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]INDIA: [/font] Still a tense interlude over here. I have to be vigilant but it looks like nothing major coming our way as recent gains are built and fortified.

[font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]CENT PAC: [/font] Makin is fortified with some base forces and supply. The Japanese send 9 Bettys out to challenge, and interestingly 6 of those get through thanks to some persistent Oscar pilots on escort. Most of these CVE Wildcat pilots are true newbies, at 50-55exp and 60-70 air skill. The Bettys dropped bombs which is interesting.

There were also LR CAP and very experienced pilots from the Wasp involved, so I'm not sure how 6 of the 9 Bettys got through, but this doesn't bode well for a CV engagement right now. I'd like to get to Makin, but with the unknown TF hanging out up to the North in the Marshalls, right now seems like poor timing. I'm calling it off and I'll unload the Marines at Tabiteuaea.

[font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]SO PAC: [/font] Lunga is invaded and after two DAs falls on the 19th!! It will take some time to hunt down and eradicate all Japanese resistance, but this effectively punctuates the end of Operation Grapeshot, which is a resounding success. By pushing far into Japanese space, making them fight for the deep penetration at Rekata Bay, a closer more sustainable foothold is gained and enlarged at Tulagi. Lunga falling means the next significant Japanese base complex in the area is at Buin/Torokina. I'l get engineers and base forces in and also try to land small commando units on forward bases that are unoccupied to again force either a challenge or an acquiescence to the persistence of the Allied moves in So Pac. It's also time to start thinking about New Guinea.

[font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]CHINA: [/font] Troops keep getting a beating from the air. I'll try to move some fighters in again as the Japanese have only Oscars here now.

[font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]SIGINT:[/font] Nick is getting started early in the Marianas. An Air Division also on the way there.

[font="Trebuchet MS"]54th Division is loaded on xAP Ohtaka Maru moving to Saipan.[/font]

[font="Trebuchet MS"]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Nov 17, 42
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Morning Air attack on TF, near Makin at 136,125

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 9
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 27

Allied aircraft
P-38G Lightning x 4
P-39D Airacobra x 4
F4F-4 Wildcat x 28

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 4 destroyed

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
DMS Chandler
xAP Maori

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x G4M1 Betty bombing from 10000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
VF-71 with F4F-4 Wildcat (10 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(10 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
10 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 10000.
Raid is overhead
VRF-1F with F4F-4 Wildcat (8 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(8 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
8 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 10000.
Raid is overhead
VRF-5F with F4F-4 Wildcat (5 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(5 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
5 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 10000.
Raid is overhead
VMF-441 with F4F-4 Wildcat (5 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
5 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 15000.
Raid is overhead
15th FG/46th FS with P-39D Airacobra (4 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 10000.
Raid is overhead
8th FG/80th FS with P-38G Lightning (4 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 12000.
Raid is overhead

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AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Nov 18, 42
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Ground combat at Lunga (114,138)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 4355 troops, 40 guns, 89 vehicles, Assault Value = 186

Defending force 4248 troops, 27 guns, 2 vehicles, Assault Value = 104

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 1

Allied adjusted assault: 120

Japanese adjusted defense: 43

Allied assault odds: 2 to 1 (fort level 1)

Allied Assault reduces fortifications to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), disruption(-), fatigue(-), experience(-)
supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
274 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 23 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Allied ground losses:
240 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 30 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Assaulting units:
6th Marine Regiment
632nd Tank Destroyer Battalion

Defending units:
Maizuru 2nd SNLF
53rd Naval Guard Unit
47th JNAF AF Unit

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AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Nov 19, 42
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ASW attack near Abemama at 136,129

Japanese Ships
SS RO-63, hits 1

Allied Ships
BB Idaho
BB Tennessee
AP President Monroe
AP President Hayes
AP President Adams
AP President Jackson
AK Titania
DD Helm
DD Bagley
DD Frazier

SS RO-63 is sighted by escort
DD Helm fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Bagley fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Frazier attacking submerged sub ....
Escort abandons search for sub


Ground combat at Lunga (114,138)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 4194 troops, 40 guns, 89 vehicles, Assault Value = 164

Defending force 3996 troops, 27 guns, 2 vehicles, Assault Value = 83

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 0

Allied adjusted assault: 56

Japanese adjusted defense: 19

Allied assault odds: 2 to 1 (fort level 0)

Allied forces CAPTURE Lunga !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), leaders(-), disruption(-), fatigue(-)
experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
408 casualties reported
Squads: 3 destroyed, 26 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 8 disabled
Engineers: 10 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 8 (2 destroyed, 6 disabled)
Vehicles lost 2 (2 destroyed, 0 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
65 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 10 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
6th Marine Regiment
632nd Tank Destroyer Battalion

Defending units:
Maizuru 2nd SNLF
53rd Naval Guard Unit
47th JNAF AF Unit

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[font="Trebuchet MS"]Lots of refits and upgrades being completed, and the 40mm Bofors being added will definitely give the USN flak even more bite. [/font]

[Yaab]

Oscars escorting Bettys? IJA and IJN together - that is the war winning strategy for sure.