Turnaround? Lowpe (J) vs Tiemanj (A) Stock

[Encircled]

There is of course the idea that by sending only small amounts of what you have, he begins to wonder what you have or have not in the area.

If he thinks thats all you have, then he's liable to be a bit more free with his movements, and that can create opportunities for you.

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

A couple of things. First: Multiple disjointed attacks probably wouldn't get thru the carrier CAP, and I would lose 200+ planes.

True, but one big attack just might.

This is from the last turn in my game with Loka.

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Portland Roads at 95,132

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 34 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 57
B5N2 Kate x 74
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 29

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 50
F4U-1 Corsair x 5
F6F-3 Hellcat x 45

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 4 destroyed
B5N2 Kate: 27 destroyed, 9 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 7 destroyed by flak
Ki-44-IIb Tojo: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 1 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
CV Enterprise
CV Wasp, Torpedo hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
CV Hornet, Torpedo hits 2, on fire
BB Washington
CV Yorktown, Torpedo hits 1
BB Indiana

Aircraft Attacking:
30 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Encircled

Banzai?

Its like watching it in real time!

I guess if there is a theme to this AAR, anytime there is something exciting I try to do a play by play and build suspense.

Glad you liked it, and the timing was good for the posts.[:)]

[Lowpe]

M-M, yeah, you dog I read about that attack! Green envy is eating at me.[:D]

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

M-M, yeah, you dog I read about that attack! Green envy is eating at me.[:D]

That's impossible, because I only ran the turn an hour ago! You're thinking of the CVE's I attacked, this one was on infintely more valuable fleet carriers.

It is said that God is always on the side of the big battalions. In AE, it seems that God is on the side of the big airstrikes.

If you'd 50 Lilys/Kates/Vals behind those Zeros, you'd almost certainly have gotten a similar result. My rule of thumb is quickly becoming "If you can't get 200 escorts and 150 strike planes in range, don't bother attacking".

[Lowpe]

M-M, why you are quite correct! I fear there will be lots of AFBs' gnashing their teeth![:D]

Now I am purple with envy![&o]

Wasp is very fragile...but don't let the Hornet get away. Banzai!

[Lowpe]

Licking my chops, thinking about those beautiful Irving-S NFs rolling off the production factory floor in a little more than a week I got to preparing the only squadron that can upgrade to the Irv. You can see how un-gamey I am -- they are still size 9!

And then, there it is: those wonderful letters S R. Gemminny Crickets! Who figured out that great idea! I think I spotted this before and blocked it out to protect my sanity....anyhow back to rant mode.

This game is just stacked against Japan! Come on guys, give us a fighting chance![:D] Its like the designers don't want Japan to win. Cripes, were they going for historical accuracy or something equally as silly?[:D]

So, like any good JFB, I am going to transfer those Jakes to my only remaining CS (if she doesn't get torpedoed this week), resize the group to 20 (take that!) and then I think the transfer to a carrier, even a second rate float plane carrier, will un-restrict the squadron? At least that is what I recall. If not maybe they can offload at Medan in boxes and be manually upgraded there to Irvs.

Normally, I don't do things like this. But, darn it all...this is war!

[Lowpe]

Converted two small factories to these Floats. I only have one factory of 30 Jakes, and they can't keep up, I do however have a Glen pool for the rest of the game, as well as Petes coming out my ears. In fact, Petes make up the 2nd largest pool of unused aircraft.[X(]

Jakes die to enemy CAP in amazing numbers. I would hate to be a IJN Pilot and get assigned to one. Maybe Norm can be better. At least Norm has long legs...maybe they should have changed the name to something with a little more charm...and female.

[mind_messing]

So, like any good JFB, I am going to transfer those Jakes to my only remaining CS (if she doesn't get torpedoed this week), resize the group to 20 (take that!) and then I think the transfer to a carrier, even a second rate float plane carrier, will un-restrict the squadron? At least that is what I recall. If not maybe they can offload at Medan in boxes and be manually upgraded there to Irvs.

I've became quite an expert at this.

Moving the squadron to a CS will cause it to change to the "Independent" command. Resize to 20, offload and upgrade to Irving.

If you really want to break the game, you can do it with pretty much any squadron using carrier aircraft or floatplanes. I've had a bunch of excess 24 sized floatplane squadrons training IJN pilots since the start of the war, as well as monster 81 and 72 sized units training fighter, dive bomber and torpedo bomber pilots.

The IJN pools look quite healthy as a result: the only shortage is in fresh replacement pilots to keep the program going!

RE: The Norm

I like the notion of using this plane on the IJN capital ships, where the extra range can be put to good use and the SR of 3 is less of an issue.

I'm still undecided about using it as a land-based search plane - the value of the Jake is that it can be up flying search day after day. I'll probably convert a few land-based squadrons for ASW duties or searching from bigger bases.

[Lowpe]

Planes have left Kusaie, I expect the Amis to detach a BB and bombard...moved other search planes around trying to avoid the expected heavy bomber response.

Planes have left their ambush from Moulmein...many bombers are going to target the Allied tanks heading into the jungle. I have had terrible results bombing Allied tanks, but maybe something will change with big numbers. Sweeps, Escorts, and LRCAP will protect the bombers.

The Irving will get its debut tonight fighting over Bangkok I suspect. Tracom pilots, one and all.

Dispatched the Djambi protective forces: AA, Eng, Naval Guard from the HI. Dispatched several ENG units to Bangkok they will head into Indochina to build up the air bases in the third line.

Subs hunting American carriers...maybe they will get lucky.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing
I've became quite an expert at this.

Moving the squadron to a CS will cause it to change to the "Independent" command. Resize to 20, offload and upgrade to Irving.

If you really want to break the game, you can do it with pretty much any squadron using carrier aircraft or floatplanes. I've had a bunch of excess 24 sized floatplane squadrons training IJN pilots since the start of the war, as well as monster 81 and 72 sized units training fighter, dive bomber and torpedo bomber pilots.

I inherited three or four monster groups. One size 91. Don't ask me how? I kind of think it is a borderline exploit and disbanded one of the squadrons (then I saw how much it cost to rebuild the unit!). So I still have a few of them...I think they could really throw off combat results early on...not so much at the end of the war and the large squadron size groups then.

The trade off is the cost in supplies and HI too, plus the drain on pilots.

I never played with this particular strategy against the AI...even with the Hermes starting air groups. How prevalent is it on the Allied side?

[Lowpe]

No turn, my mistake as I sent the wrong turn last night. You have done it too...admit it![:)]

Well, I am trying to devise strategies where I can hit the Allies on the periphery without using too much fuel. I am currently not looking for a decisive battle, rather a constant bleed. I need a strong IJN to act as force in being to slow down the Allied offensives.

There is too much at risk for a big carrier clash...so I hope to only use my carriers in an overwhelming force situation or on the edges or simply showing them to distract the Allies. That means land based air must step up their game a notch. This is a complete reversal of strategy from when I took over the game, where the Navy was used very hard to make up for the complete failure of land based air. Poor pilots, obsolete frames then.

I need time...time to ship resources from SRA to China. Time to better develop pilots and better planes. Time to get to the uber end war fighters.

However, the Allies are going to be super aggressive as always...and that is my only hope.

[Lowpe]

It is almost July, of 1943 and I have now over 3.2 million supply in the HI, and just a hair under 5 million total. My goal was 6 million, but I think it may be worthwhile to try and get more if the Allies let me.

I have added over 300K in the last month. My next turn I will adopt some more stringent supply savings and see if I can't grow that number by 10% or more.

Right now Burma is being supplied from Palembang; while China is on their own. The HI does ship to the Islands.

I continue to believe this is the most important economic hurdle.

[Lowpe]

More on supply:

Here is Obvert vs Jocke status at July 1, 1943. Now it is dangerous to compare your levels to another game. In this struggle, Obvert trashed Joc's carriers early and often,and even despite the great carrier destruction that Obvert wrought early on, the Allies were in the Marianas in mid 44. I fear I won't be as good.

It is amazing to see in Obvert's AAR the supply drain away in 45. Huge air battles, stunning progress in Indochina and China, massive losses, bombing and then even more bombing.

Still, it was a narrow run thing. Obvert came late to NF strategy: They HR'ed it away till 44, and Obvert hadn't planned accordingly coming very late to Nick, and the realization that NF is a numbers game: get as many possible squadrons flying as soon as possible, stuff your 3 industrial centers on the HI with as much AA as is humanely possible.

So how do I stack up against the gold standard: positive on resources, oil, and supplies, negative on fuel and HI. Manpower, who cares.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: mind_messing
I've became quite an expert at this.

Moving the squadron to a CS will cause it to change to the "Independent" command. Resize to 20, offload and upgrade to Irving.

If you really want to break the game, you can do it with pretty much any squadron using carrier aircraft or floatplanes. I've had a bunch of excess 24 sized floatplane squadrons training IJN pilots since the start of the war, as well as monster 81 and 72 sized units training fighter, dive bomber and torpedo bomber pilots.

I inherited three or four monster groups. One size 91. Don't ask me how? I kind of think it is a borderline exploit and disbanded one of the squadrons (then I saw how much it cost to rebuild the unit!). So I still have a few of them...I think they could really throw off combat results early on...not so much at the end of the war and the large squadron size groups then.

The trade off is the cost in supplies and HI too, plus the drain on pilots.

I never played with this particular strategy against the AI...even with the Hermes starting air groups. How prevalent is it on the Allied side?

Not very. Most squadrons resize multiple times, with the final resize being in 1944 or 1945. So the opportunity for large groups is almost nonexistent.

[ny59giants]

Supplies - I think an Allied player should try to use ground bombardment attacks when possible just to burn up Japanese supplies. It may not be much, but every little bit will help in the long term. I had a few stacks on the Burma/Thailand border that are doing so just for this purpose.

In Obvert vs Jocke they played with no stacking limits some of their ground battles really ate up supplies. Another was once the war got to China, Japan probably had to see their supply situation get worse.

[Lowpe]

Ok, you guys can talk all you want about destroying Japan's supplies, but only in this AAR![:D]

We have no stacking limit in this game, and I can see the supply burn that is Burma currently. I have been moving slowly in China in an effort to conserve supplies, but have a huge battle coming up in a few days (5000AV on Japans side) I hope I can get to where I want to go before the Allies open up the Burma road.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
Not very. Most squadrons resize multiple times, with the final resize being in 1944 or 1945. So the opportunity for large groups is almost nonexistent.

Can't you bounce them on a carrier and manually increase the size? I seem to recall that being an option with a least the British and the Hermes early on.

I wonder if m-m attack on you, that nailed the Wasp was one supersized torpedo group and that was allowed it to get thru your CAP. Just don't know what to think of the strategy, as is seems very powerful for Japan, but is it an exploit? Seems that way to me.

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
Not very. Most squadrons resize multiple times, with the final resize being in 1944 or 1945. So the opportunity for large groups is almost nonexistent.

Can't you bounce them on a carrier and manually increase the size? I seem to recall that being an option with a least the British and the Hermes early on.

I wonder if m-m attack on you, that nailed the Wasp was one supersized torpedo group and that was allowed it to get thru your CAP. Just don't know what to think of the strategy, as is seems very powerful for Japan, but is it an exploit? Seems that way to me.

The Kates that nailed Wasp were from a size 81 super-group.

To be quite honest, it probably is an "exploit" (if, indeed, you can really call it that), but there's no other solution to beating the Allied CAP wall with LBA. With the attackers co-ordination penalties, CAP can destroy strikes peicemeal. Then there's the wonky escort/bomber allocation - don't you just hate seeing 100 fighters escorting 10 bombers, while 50 bombers get 10 fighters as escort?

As for of resizing is an "exploit" or not, the devs added it to the game. I'm probably just the first person to tale it to the extreme and write an AAR about it.

I will grant that it's not "fair", but it's not "fair" that the Allies get vastly superior troops, ships and planes as the war progresses. What are some over-sized Japanese squadrons compared to the hoards of Fletchers and B-29's?

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
Not very. Most squadrons resize multiple times, with the final resize being in 1944 or 1945. So the opportunity for large groups is almost nonexistent.

Can't you bounce them on a carrier and manually increase the size? I seem to recall that being an option with a least the British and the Hermes early on.

I wonder if m-m attack on you, that nailed the Wasp was one supersized torpedo group and that was allowed it to get thru your CAP. Just don't know what to think of the strategy, as is seems very powerful for Japan, but is it an exploit? Seems that way to me.

I think it was one TB group, yes. The Ominato KuT-1. I haven't looked yet to see if that's a resizable group. I think it is. I also think he was desperate for planes, and started these on their way from a different location (Japan, maybe?) as they arrived almost a week later, and 74 planes flew. If he left 7 behind along the way from damaged landings over several hops... it stacks up.

Keep in mind that airfields still have stacking limits, and these groups require outsized portions of AvSupp and supply (making level 8 airfields for Japan all that much more important).

As for the USN/USMC groups... no, not really. You can resize the RN units, but you also have a much smaller pool of planes to pull from. Just forget about resizing the stringbag units, you'll never have enough planes to fill even one of them up. The Martlet units - sure, go ahead. I've resized a couple, but still checked on my total supply of airframes to see how many I could do. And then there are losses to take into account.

I resized some Fulmar units for their cameras, as you get plenty of those airframes, and then you realize that you can't split the units up into thirds, so....

A lot of the USN/USMC groups have hardcoded resizes running through sometime in 1944, which means you can't supersize them until after that.