Greyjoy(J) vs. Obvert(A) - The air war in China- DBB, SLs, PDU OFF

[Cap Mandrake]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

And here's the butcher's bill of the day.
Not bad

Santa Maria! It's like the Schweinfurt raid with B-24's [X(]

[GreyJoy]

Nov 28, 1942

CENTPAC: enemy's CVs spotted near Ellice Islands, moving NW!

CHINA: this was an important day in China. At Kweyiang we've swept out of the skies the few P-40Ks and P-66s that were defending the big base. Then 300 bombers plastered the enemy's defences and, after that, the tank army attacked. Despite having less than 75% of the needed supplies, the attack went better than expected. The city won't hold for long now. If erik doesn't abandon it immediately, he risks of having several groups cut off from any source of supplies.
This is the moment in China. We must keep on pushing. in 3 days i'll have a total of 5 crack infantry divisions, 3 Tank Divisions, 11 Tank regiments and several artillery units ready for Kweyang.

Ground combat at Kweiyang (74,49)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 27194 troops, 471 guns, 2146 vehicles, Assault Value = 1406

Defending force 47946 troops, 239 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1294

Japanese adjusted assault: 833

Allied adjusted defense: 685

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1 (fort level 3)

Japanese Assault reduces fortifications to 2

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), disruption(-), preparation(-)
experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
646 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 32 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 34 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled
Vehicles lost 83 (5 destroyed, 78 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
1814 casualties reported
Squads: 7 destroyed, 218 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 28 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 12 disabled
Guns lost 15 (2 destroyed, 13 disabled)

Assaulting units:
12th Tank Regiment
19th Tank Regiment
1st Tank Division
7th Ind.Tank Brigade
2nd Tank Division
15th Tank Regiment
17th Tank Regiment
18th Tank Regiment
4th Tank Regiment
11th Tank Regiment
13th Tank Regiment
3rd Tank Regiment
Guards Tank Division
23rd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
21st Mortar Battalion
11th Army
1st Medium Field Artillery Regiment
8th Medium Field Artillery Regiment

Defending units:
30th Chinese Corps
71st Chinese Corps
35th Chinese Corps
78th Chinese Corps
Central Reserve

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
In centpac, the allied CVs made their appearance! Our Betties attacked an enemy's TF near Makin and got butchered by a CAP composed by Wildcats coming from CVs and CVEs... BBs and CVs are also spotted directly 1 hex SE of Makin... Mili is being reconned heavily so I guess he's going to attack. Roi Namur is being reconned...so my CAP is ready.
My CVs are moving from truk as we speak, along with 2 BBs and 8 CAs... let's see if we can dance this time.

This is a dangerous time to attack the upper Marshalls. Great opportunity for you to make the USN pay when you still have a qualitative edge in planes and pilots.

Whats your LBA situation like? In my experience LBA here can make a huge difference for the Japanese.

In the Marshalls the LBA situation is just decent, even if the long distances from the good bases will surely declass my ability to counter a good supported invasion.
I think i'll be forced to rely on the CV/CVEs only for a counter-move

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: crsutton
Well at this point the Allies have the P38 in sufficient numbers and will start getting the corsair in two weeks. Not air superiority but certainly by concentrating these models superiority can be attained at the point of attack. Nothing in the Japanese inventory near as good.

PDU off, won't be as big a presence as normally.

One naval engagement and the Centpac stabilizes for a few months I think...

Exciting times!

Yes, PDU OFF really changes the tables and the balances we are all used to.
Erik have to chose carefully where to send his squadrons that can upgrade to P-38s. Once in a theatre, they will be stuck there for a long time.
Same goes for me, obviously. My 5 Tojo groups (IIa and IIb) for example, are all stuck in India/China and won't be able to do much in SOPAC/CENTPAC for the time being. I'll have to rely down there only to the KI-43 IIa and the A6M3a... not exactly the best in nov 42

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: leehunt27@bloomberg.net

How strong is the garrison at Ponape? CD's, AA units, Infantry, Arty, HQ's etc? Or garrison units with base forces? You know what I mean? My bases of the latter, even with 300 AV, have been steamrolled by just two US Marine divisions lately. Can you double that AV number and create a transport link between bases for more reinforcements, aircraft etc?

Ponape is well garrisoned for the moment. CD units are present, AA units (heavy and light) too. Forces are up to 5 and building.
For the next months I'm planning to send there 2 heavy Artillery units (30 and 24 cm guns) and a division.
Don't think he can risk anything directly at Ponape yet. By the time he'll have the Hellcats, Ponape will be a true fortress

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Nov 18-27, 1942


Economy: bad, really bad on supplies. I'm burning them at a rate I cannot really stand. Down to 2.7 millions...[:(]

Yes, I really think that in the long run, this is the Achilles Heel of a prolonged campaign in India.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Nov 18-27, 1942


Economy: bad, really bad on supplies. I'm burning them at a rate I cannot really stand. Down to 2.7 millions...[:(]

Yes, I really think that in the long run, this is the Achilles Heel of a prolonged campaign in India.

But, a part from the big battle fought near Patna last month, I haven't done much in India. Yes, I built some bases, but nothing that extreme imho.
What is killing me is the RnD program in a PDU OFF environement...
And China... China is sucking up my supplies much more than India. That is certain. At least India, produces some of the supplies spent there. China sees every day hundreds of bombers and constant land battles. it's China (and the RnD) the real problem for me

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

ORIGINAL: crsutton

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Nov 18-27, 1942


Economy: bad, really bad on supplies. I'm burning them at a rate I cannot really stand. Down to 2.7 millions...[:(]

Yes, I really think that in the long run, this is the Achilles Heel of a prolonged campaign in India.

But, a part from the big battle fought near Patna last month, I haven't done much in India. Yes, I built some bases, but nothing that extreme imho.
What is killing me is the RnD program in a PDU OFF environement...
And China... China is sucking up my supplies much more than India. That is certain. At least India, produces some of the supplies spent there. China sees every day hundreds of bombers and constant land battles. it's China (and the RnD) the real problem for me

Your supplies are really low. What would happen if you started curtailing some operations? I think you might have to.

[Lowpe]

I thought PDU off would save supplies for you!

[Q-Ball]

The whole KB is now equipped with the D1Y1[8D]

RnD...some light here:
A6M2Sen Baku available on 12/42

Economy: bad, really bad on supplies. I'm burning them at a rate I cannot really stand. Down to 2.7 millions...

These things seem pretty related.....Nic, seems like you max-out your R&D and aircraft production, you certainly did vs. me, but there is a price to pay for that methinks. Do you wish you weren't so aggressive there?

How do you get your R&D factories to repair to 30 so fast? I have tons, but they repair so SLOW, despite having supplies pumped into the hex

[veji1]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I thought PDU off would save supplies for you!

It should if you only research some of the planes (main lines) and let the other upgrade per their historical rythm. But if you try to research several lines or to mega maximize the few main lines, then it can be just as bad if not worse.

R&D is really a self limitation exercice. It is too easy to just do as much as you can, and you only realise in 44 that once the oil is gone you only have 4 months left instead of 12...

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

The whole KB is now equipped with the D1Y1[8D]

RnD...some light here:
A6M2Sen Baku available on 12/42

Economy: bad, really bad on supplies. I'm burning them at a rate I cannot really stand. Down to 2.7 millions...

These things seem pretty related.....Nic, seems like you max-out your R&D and aircraft production, you certainly did vs. me, but there is a price to pay for that methinks. Do you wish you weren't so aggressive there?

How do you get your R&D factories to repair to 30 so fast? I have tons, but they repair so SLOW, despite having supplies pumped into the hex

Yes, RnD did impact a lot on my supplies. Don't know Brad... it's easy to say i shouldn't have pushed so much on the RnD program... i know... but with PDU OFF i thought i had to.
My thoughts were that, in a PDU OFF game, the only way to avoid to lose the air war completely in early 1943 was to optmize the RND program so to have the major A/c lines available way earlier than possibile (A6M and KI-43 lines).
I surely pushed a lot on those two lines (something like 20 RnD factories in the A6M and 10 more in the KI-43 line).
The results have been positive so far, allowing me to win the few battles we've had in India.
But that has come with a price... a huge supplies expenditure. And by mid 1943 i'll have to push again when all those RnD factories will need to be changed to something else...

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: veji1

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I thought PDU off would save supplies for you!

It should if you only research some of the planes (main lines) and let the other upgrade per their historical rythm. But if you try to research several lines or to mega maximize the few main lines, then it can be just as bad if not worse.

R&D is really a self limitation exercice. It is too easy to just do as much as you can, and you only realise in 44 that once the oil is gone you only have 4 months left instead of 12...

Yup, agree. I will be fighting the supply-war sooner than expected. My fault. Hopefully i'll be challenging Obvert enough to make him pay for his advances anyway

[GreyJoy]

Nov 29-30, 1942

CHINA: Another risky run at Kweiyang. A Deliberate attack ends up at 1-1 with forts down to 1... but supplies are almost over and i had to stop for th 30th and the 1st Dec

Ground combat at Kweiyang (74,49)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 26598 troops, 471 guns, 2142 vehicles, Assault Value = 1321

Defending force 42769 troops, 237 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1072

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 1

Japanese adjusted assault: 334

Allied adjusted defense: 261

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1 (fort level 1)

Japanese Assault reduces fortifications to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), disruption(-), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker: supply(-)

Japanese ground losses:
455 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 30 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 47 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled
Vehicles lost 77 (5 destroyed, 72 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
2584 casualties reported
Squads: 10 destroyed, 214 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 17 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 15 disabled

Assaulting units:
17th Tank Regiment
1st Tank Division
13th Tank Regiment
15th Tank Regiment
12th Tank Regiment
2nd Tank Division
7th Ind.Tank Brigade
19th Tank Regiment
11th Tank Regiment
4th Tank Regiment
18th Tank Regiment
3rd Tank Regiment
Guards Tank Division
23rd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
1st Medium Field Artillery Regiment
21st Mortar Battalion
11th Army
8th Medium Field Artillery Regiment

Defending units:
30th Chinese Corps
71st Chinese Corps
35th Chinese Corps
78th Chinese Corps


The enemy is showing to be abbandoning the city moving north. So Kweyiang should be ours sooner than expected!
That's an important strategic victory imho...

CENTPAC: Nauru Island seems to be a target again... 4Es and B25s plastered the island, preceeded by P-38s on sweep. Lost contact with the enemy's CVs...

INDIA: lots of movement by his troops... Ceylon is being heavily reconned

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

ORIGINAL: crsutton

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Nov 18-27, 1942


Economy: bad, really bad on supplies. I'm burning them at a rate I cannot really stand. Down to 2.7 millions...[:(]

Yes, I really think that in the long run, this is the Achilles Heel of a prolonged campaign in India.

But, a part from the big battle fought near Patna last month, I haven't done much in India. Yes, I built some bases, but nothing that extreme imho.
What is killing me is the RnD program in a PDU OFF environement...
And China... China is sucking up my supplies much more than India. That is certain. At least India, produces some of the supplies spent there. China sees every day hundreds of bombers and constant land battles. it's China (and the RnD) the real problem for me

But what about fuel stocks? You have shifted the KB and some of the fuel hog BBs back and forth between theaters, Not to mention the long trips to ship supplies and troops to India. Has this had an impact on your stocks?

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

The whole KB is now equipped with the D1Y1[8D]

RnD...some light here:
A6M2Sen Baku available on 12/42

Economy: bad, really bad on supplies. I'm burning them at a rate I cannot really stand. Down to 2.7 millions...

These things seem pretty related.....Nic, seems like you max-out your R&D and aircraft production, you certainly did vs. me, but there is a price to pay for that methinks. Do you wish you weren't so aggressive there?

How do you get your R&D factories to repair to 30 so fast? I have tons, but they repair so SLOW, despite having supplies pumped into the hex

For reference, I didn't have enough Judys until mid-January 1943 to equip all of KB. And I didn't ignore R&D on it... I allocated 4 factories.

[Lowpe]

I don't think Judy is worth too much in accelerated R&D. For the simple reason they most likely won't get used much. Vals are adequate...save the supply.

R&D fighters, nightfighters, Grace. But be choosy.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

ORIGINAL: crsutton




Yes, I really think that in the long run, this is the Achilles Heel of a prolonged campaign in India.

But, a part from the big battle fought near Patna last month, I haven't done much in India. Yes, I built some bases, but nothing that extreme imho.
What is killing me is the RnD program in a PDU OFF environement...
And China... China is sucking up my supplies much more than India. That is certain. At least India, produces some of the supplies spent there. China sees every day hundreds of bombers and constant land battles. it's China (and the RnD) the real problem for me

But what about fuel stocks? You have shifted the KB and some of the fuel hog BBs back and forth between theaters, Not to mention the long trips to ship supplies and troops to India. Has this had an impact on your stocks?

Fuel is the only thing I'm not missing. 6M+ fuel and 7.5M considered the bunkers.
KB hasn't moved much as you think. When in the I.O. the KB has been parked in a single hex, not moving..or moving very seldom. Same for BBs. I haven't moved them much

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I don't think Judy is worth too much in accelerated R&D. For the simple reason they most likely won't get used much. Vals are adequate...save the supply.

R&D fighters, nightfighters, Grace. But be choosy.

I've found that the Judy is a MUST-HAVE plane, both for the KB and for the few LBA units that can be equipped with it.
At 7 hexes, it makes all the difference in the world to attack with bombs of 125kg or 250.
When the Judy 3 will arrive, 500kg at 7 hexes is a big enhancement for the KB's DB groups.

My RnD program has been explained in detail when the match begun. I haven't RnDed any bomber/recon except for the D4Y line and the Jill one. Devoted 3 RnD factories each...oh, and obviously the Grace...3x30. Not more.
The rest is just fighters. Night fighters not much, cause we are in PDU OFF, so I will have to build every single NF model[8|]

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Night fighters not much, cause we are in PDU OFF, so I will have to build every single NF model[8|]

That bad?[:(]