Greyjoy(J) vs. Obvert(A) - The air war in China- DBB, SLs, PDU OFF

[pontiouspilot]

Happy hans....thanks, it was all news to me too....i guess it means I leave the bulk of recon on auto pilot

[Sangeli]

If you really want the Allies to take the Solomon route you need to reinforce Milne bay and other bases in that area. The Allies already has a base in the island chain east of NG and it shouldn't be too hard for them to occupy the undefended Woodlark Island. And I'm not sure how well that fortified zone on the western part of New Britain and the Lae area on NG will deter or slow down the Allies from moving through there. I think priority needs to be containing the Allies in their small holdings in the Solomon Sea to prevent the masses of Allied LBA from dominating the area. And if it's too late for that then you should work to establish depth behind Lae so you have bases out of range of LBA when the Allies advance.

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Crap! I have been playing this game forever and did not know this..[:@] Ok, now I do...[;)]

Guys, the same is true for any kind of air mission. Don't set a target and the tactical AI chooses it for you.

This has always been the default for NAV bombing as the player has never been able to choose NAV bombing targets, but it works just the same for ground bombing missions.

Leaving the choice of any random in range target for ground bombing up to the tactical AI probably isn't the wisest choice a player could make though.

This is very evident when playing the AI. It forever recons bypassed bases in never captures such as the base buried in the middle of Borneo. The AI recons that base every turn for the entire game.
Likely because the AI is very poor at moving air assets forward and whatever recon squadron it is using spends the rest of the war at a locale where the only Allied base in range for it to randomly choose is the base in the middle of Borneo.

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Crap! I have been playing this game forever and did not know this..[:@] Ok, now I do...[;)]

Same here, basically. Learn something every day!

[leehunt27@bloomberg.net]

Interesting strategy Greyjoy on trying to force the Allies away from the New Guinea coast and towards the Central Pacific. That's also a bet on the Japanese Navy remaining strong too. In my PBEM game my Allied opponent is muscling into the Marianas as of early 1944 and though its proving almost a pyrrhic victory for him, I no longer have much of a fleet to contest the landings. He's lost a lot of carriers, Marines and BB's to my land based air force, but my army is all but abandoned to its fate without naval support. A Central Pacific offensive also puts the Allies within bomber range of mainland Japan sooner, though perhaps at the expense of the DEI continuing to supply oil/fuel to the Empire a while longer. The question is, Japanese defenses being equal, which is preferable to the Allied player and most harmful to the Japanese?

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Crap! I have been playing this game forever and did not know this..[:@] Ok, now I do...[;)]

Guys, the same is true for any kind of air mission. Don't set a target and the tactical AI chooses it for you.

This has always been the default for NAV bombing as the player has never been able to choose NAV bombing targets, but it works just the same for ground bombing missions.

Leaving the choice of any random in range target for ground bombing up to the tactical AI probably isn't the wisest choice a player could make though.

This is very evident when playing the AI. It forever recons bypassed bases in never captures such as the base buried in the middle of Borneo. The AI recons that base every turn for the entire game.
Likely because the AI is very poor at moving air assets forward and whatever recon squadron it is using spends the rest of the war at a locale where the only Allied base in range for it to randomly choose is the base in the middle of Borneo.

Yes, but I did not know it worked that way with recon and units moving around out of bases. I always assumed it was the air superiority calibration that determined when random units would show up..

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

If you really want the Allies to take the Solomon route you need to reinforce Milne bay and other bases in that area. The Allies already has a base in the island chain east of NG and it shouldn't be too hard for them to occupy the undefended Woodlark Island. And I'm not sure how well that fortified zone on the western part of New Britain and the Lae area on NG will deter or slow down the Allies from moving through there. I think priority needs to be containing the Allies in their small holdings in the Solomon Sea to prevent the masses of Allied LBA from dominating the area. And if it's too late for that then you should work to establish depth behind Lae so you have bases out of range of LBA when the Allies advance.

Hi Sangeli,

no, Milne Bay, Woodlark etc are too exposed and it's already too late for reinforcing them. The Solomons/NG are a PITA for Japan.Too many islands/bases to garrison and develop...the risk is to invest too much there....not worth it, imho. I know i cannot stop him. my only goal here is to slow him down as much as possible, without seeing too many good units cut off when he finally breaks into my lines....and it's not easy to do!
I've chosen Finshtafen-Umboi-Saidor because it's a bottleneck and those bases are needed if he wants to move north with his fleet. He can't simply bypass them if he wants to use the NG coastal route...and are close enough to Rabaul to be supported by the LBA and by the Navy operating on the northern coast of New Britain.
And yes, the whole strategy is built up to buy time to build and fortify the next line (Sarmi-Biak-Truk-Ponape). Sami Biak is a strong position imho. I haven't developed Hollandia-Wewak area on pourpose, so he will have to build them all...but before he needs to move through Umboi Island... my hope is that this will require some time.

I am not saying this is the best possible strategy...but considering how much i am already involved in other theatres...this seems to be the best one to maximise the effects minimizing the investments...

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: leehunt27@bloomberg.net

Interesting strategy Greyjoy on trying to force the Allies away from the New Guinea coast and towards the Central Pacific. That's also a bet on the Japanese Navy remaining strong too. In my PBEM game my Allied opponent is muscling into the Marianas as of early 1944 and though its proving almost a pyrrhic victory for him, I no longer have much of a fleet to contest the landings. He's lost a lot of carriers, Marines and BB's to my land based air force, but my army is all but abandoned to its fate without naval support. A Central Pacific offensive also puts the Allies within bomber range of mainland Japan sooner, though perhaps at the expense of the DEI continuing to supply oil/fuel to the Empire a while longer. The question is, Japanese defenses being equal, which is preferable to the Allied player and most harmful to the Japanese?

Really hard to answer...don't know.
One thing i know is that Japan needs to force the allies to go into those geographical areas where there are the less number of dot/bases... I remember how bad was for me against Brad when he decided to take the southern DEI route...it was impossible to defend all those dot bases...while in the Mariannas...well...there are just a few bases...and they can be all well garrisoned.
Hope it makes sense...this morning my ability to write in english seems to have gone away with Morpheus[&:]

[GreyJoy]

And now a strategic question for the audience:

What should i do in Western Oz?
I may easily send 4 Divisions to Kalgoorite/Esperance in order to stop that little (20,000 men) army advancing on the road on foot... but should i? In 4 days we'll be in 1943... should i keep on investing in western Oz in 1943?
I am tempted...but i know that, from now on, the allies gets stronger and stronger every day... mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm............... any ideas?

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: veji1

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy


I would invest much much less in the RnD program of the A6M and the KI-43 line and possibly use much less bombers in China (even if those bombers may be less usefull if the Chinese campaign had gone better with an early conquest of Sian).
Also the supply invested to get the engine bonus has been massive... I wouldn't do that again. There are simply too few sentais that can get the benefits of a steamlined model-line that the outcome in terms of cost/benefits is always negative

How much supply do you think you could have saved and how much delay you would have had in terms of arrival of your main aircrafts ? I am quite curious of the impact in a PDU off game.

Hard to say, and math isn't exactly my field...but i think at least 1,000,000 supplies...at least!

Also difficult to say how much delay it would have caused... let's say 12 months for the main lines...so A6M5b in late 1943 and KI-43 IIb just now.... probably if i had to fight the battles fought at Patna in October with the KI-43 Ic and IIa i may have lost them easily...but i don't have any counter-proof for that.
Probably the worst mistake was the A6M line. After the A6M5 the next models are not that better (while the Oscar line keeps on getting better)...and against QBall (PDU ON, mind you) i had no problem using the A6M5 even in mid 1944 (in that game i decided to stop the RnD of the Zeke right when i reached the A6M5)... the armour is important but not that much when it comes to CV-CV fight.

Now i got the KI-43 IIIa...let's see how it performs

[GreyJoy]

This beauty is now in production....would it be usefull?
It's faster than any Zeke, with armour but undergunned (even if, against fighters, the two 50mm MG might be enough).

[GreyJoy]

my fighter pools...production rates are adjusted for a PDU OFF environement. I need to keep on producing planes for groups that are bound not to upgrade or that upgrade to a very late model that i won't have for long time (A6M3a is an example)

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

my fighter pools...production rates are adjusted for a PDU OFF environement. I need to keep on producing planes for groups that are bound not to upgrade or that upgrade to a very late model that i won't have for long time (A6M3a is an example)

The Allies would KILL for pools like that.

[GreyJoy]

Sure, but believe me when i tell you that, the japanese air force (both IJN and IJA) in dec 1942 looks really different from a PDU ON environement!

[leehunt27@bloomberg.net]

Gun value 6 on the Oscar IIIa, yuck. Not enough firepower for me personally. Go for the big guns You know you need 'em against 4E bombers

[Encircled]

But on PDU off, its about the earliest Jap plane that has armor.

I'm waiting for its arrival daily in my game!

[MrKane]

ORIGINAL: leehunt27@bloomberg.net

Gun value 6 on the Oscar IIIa, yuck. Not enough firepower for me personally. Go for the big guns You know you need 'em against 4E bombers

Well, can you point for us those "big guns". I am fun of big guns too, however I cannot find such a/c available for Japan Army in Dec '42. And I would like to have them

[MrKane]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

my fighter pools...production rates are adjusted for a PDU OFF environement. I need to keep on producing planes for groups that are bound not to upgrade or that upgrade to a very late model that i won't have for long time (A6M3a is an example)

Very nice pools. However it seems to me you little overproduced A6M2. I had similar problem, you can used them to protect bases out of range for allied fighters. Intel does not tell what king of planes are defending base, and view of intel report showing 200 fighters sometimes is quite good protection against allied heavy bombers.

[Lecivius]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

(even if, against fighters, the two 50mm MG might be enough).

[X(][X(][X(][:D]

[Sangeli]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

And now a strategic question for the audience:

What should i do in Western Oz?
I may easily send 4 Divisions to Kalgoorite/Esperance in order to stop that little (20,000 men) army advancing on the road on foot... but should i? In 4 days we'll be in 1943... should i keep on investing in western Oz in 1943?
I am tempted...but i know that, from now on, the allies gets stronger and stronger every day... mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm............... any ideas?

If he's already marched this far I say let him have it. Even though it takes forever for units to march along the RR, they will actually be in excellent supply which makes it a bit different than some of the other overland marching routes in OZ. Once Kalgoorlie falls the Allies will quickly be able to move in whatever they want via major rail. If that happens it may prove very difficult to make a clean escape from Western OZ. Best to escape while it will still easy.