Ya, I can't think of any good reason to do this. What harm would come to the Allies if Madras was simply isolated and left alone? Wouldn't take more than 1000 AV to keep Madras under control leaving 5000 AV available for other moves. It's going to take a while to take down Madras and given the fact it is only early 1943, those divisions will be reformed and may even make it back to Eastern India to fight again. Very possible Obvert will end up fighting some of these divisions twice in India.ORIGINAL: crsutton
Yes, I find fault with Obvert going for a massive siege in Madras. He knows you have one tank division bottled up there and with his superior mobile units should be driving down the open ground between Deli and Calcutta. It is a total waste to use these great units in siege fighting. No Japanese unit at this stage can fight them in open ground. In 1944 the Allies can engage in slugging matches but in early 43 they need to capitalize on their mobility.
Greyjoy(J) vs. Obvert(A) - The air war in China- DBB, SLs, PDU OFF
Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition
RE: 1943!
RE: 1943!
ORIGINAL: Sangeli
Ya, I can't think of any good reason to do this. What harm would come to the Allies if Madras was simply isolated and left alone? Wouldn't take more than 1000 AV to keep Madras under control leaving 5000 AV available for other moves. It's going to take a while to take down Madras and given the fact it is only early 1943, those divisions will be reformed and may even make it back to Eastern India to fight again. Very possible Obvert will end up fighting some of these divisions twice in India.ORIGINAL: crsutton
Yes, I find fault with Obvert going for a massive siege in Madras. He knows you have one tank division bottled up there and with his superior mobile units should be driving down the open ground between Deli and Calcutta. It is a total waste to use these great units in siege fighting. No Japanese unit at this stage can fight them in open ground. In 1944 the Allies can engage in slugging matches but in early 43 they need to capitalize on their mobility.
You seem to imply that Madras is going to fall soon. Based on what you see in terms of composition of the opposing forces, do you think 6 forts aren't enough at this point?
RE: 1943!
SW Oz: if those are really the allied CVs (a glen equipped sub spotted just 4 CAs, but obviously the DL was low. The main indicator that those are CVs is the fact that i had a sub sunk by TBFs pretty far from any big base so those can't be LBA avengers performing ASW), what Erik is doing?
Trying to support a landing in SW Oz? That's a possibility. If it is so, i am not going to play with my luck there. The best units have already been evacuated long time ago. Only SNLF units and a couple of base forces are present in Perth.
The surface fleet will be ready to steam north, but won't do it untill the very last moment. Timing will be esssential.
Once i'll lose Perth, i will need to reinforce a lot Sumatra, Cocos, Christmas I.O. and Timor. Hopeully, before he can mount a serious threat to those targerts, the situation in China will b stabilized and i will be able to extract what i need to reinforce those key-positions.
Sure the next months will be very very tense...
Trying to support a landing in SW Oz? That's a possibility. If it is so, i am not going to play with my luck there. The best units have already been evacuated long time ago. Only SNLF units and a couple of base forces are present in Perth.
The surface fleet will be ready to steam north, but won't do it untill the very last moment. Timing will be esssential.
Once i'll lose Perth, i will need to reinforce a lot Sumatra, Cocos, Christmas I.O. and Timor. Hopeully, before he can mount a serious threat to those targerts, the situation in China will b stabilized and i will be able to extract what i need to reinforce those key-positions.
Sure the next months will be very very tense...
RE: 1943!
Now that 3/1943 is arriving, I need to re-organize my A/C production and RnD systems.
To be honest, sometimes I really feel as lost with the PDU OFF environement. It is so hard to determine the future needs (in terms of A/C and engine models) of the many sentais present and arriving that the task seems sometimes unaffordable.
Anyway, now that the Zero line is reaching its zenith, I have many many factories to change.
Made many mistakes. Now I see. I overproduced the Ha-35 line in order to keep up with the needs of the RnD of the zeke line, but now that I have to switch the biggest part of the production to the Ha-33 engine for the future needs (A6M8, D4Y3, Ki-100s and many more, all use the Ha-33 instead of the Ha-35 or the Ha-60!), I find that I will have to spend TONS of supplies to convert engine factories...[:o]
Need to make choices. HArd choices. I can't produce or research what I'd want.
So here are the decisions taken:
No jet or turbo jet planes will be researched or produced.
No J7W1 will be researched.
No KI-93s
Very few dedicated Kamikaze planes or fighter-bomber plane will be produced. None researched.
Won't RnD any LBA bomber.
Will try to minimize the production from now on. I have produced far too many planes that were not really used and even too many engines for some outdated lines (KI-44a and b, for example, hardly saw any combat and I have produced more than 500 planes!!!)
We will invest in new RnD factories and will pump up the engine factories ONLY for these lines:
D4Y
Grace
Frank-a (not the b)
KI-60
KI-100
KI-94
The rest will remain as it is, with all its mistakes, problems and stupidity
To be honest, sometimes I really feel as lost with the PDU OFF environement. It is so hard to determine the future needs (in terms of A/C and engine models) of the many sentais present and arriving that the task seems sometimes unaffordable.
Anyway, now that the Zero line is reaching its zenith, I have many many factories to change.
Made many mistakes. Now I see. I overproduced the Ha-35 line in order to keep up with the needs of the RnD of the zeke line, but now that I have to switch the biggest part of the production to the Ha-33 engine for the future needs (A6M8, D4Y3, Ki-100s and many more, all use the Ha-33 instead of the Ha-35 or the Ha-60!), I find that I will have to spend TONS of supplies to convert engine factories...[:o]
Need to make choices. HArd choices. I can't produce or research what I'd want.
So here are the decisions taken:
No jet or turbo jet planes will be researched or produced.
No J7W1 will be researched.
No KI-93s
Very few dedicated Kamikaze planes or fighter-bomber plane will be produced. None researched.
Won't RnD any LBA bomber.
Will try to minimize the production from now on. I have produced far too many planes that were not really used and even too many engines for some outdated lines (KI-44a and b, for example, hardly saw any combat and I have produced more than 500 planes!!!)
We will invest in new RnD factories and will pump up the engine factories ONLY for these lines:
D4Y
Grace
Frank-a (not the b)
KI-60
KI-100
KI-94
The rest will remain as it is, with all its mistakes, problems and stupidity
RE: 1943!
What is the end goal in terms of front line in China before you pack it up there ? Bottling Chungking rather than taking it ? Do you clean up Sian and north China (I would do it), do you leave Kunming alone or go for it ?
Adieu Ô Dieu odieux... signé Adam
RE: 1943!
ORIGINAL: veji1
What is the end goal in terms of front line in China before you pack it up there ? Bottling Chungking rather than taking it ? Do you clean up Sian and north China (I would do it), do you leave Kunming alone or go for it ?
Chungking will be bottled up. Too much time to conquer it and too many supplies.
I will shrink its perimeter as much as possible and then i'll bottle it up, starting a strat bombing campaign so to keep its supply production at its minimum.
Then I have to decide between Kunming and Sian. Don't think I can do both. not without leaving too many units in China anyway.
Kunming is closer to my main army, so it may be easier, but I hate the idea of a slug fest in those nasty mountain hexes...
Don't have decided yet. It all depends on how much it will take for Changsha...
RE: 1943!
ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
ORIGINAL: veji1
What is the end goal in terms of front line in China before you pack it up there ? Bottling Chungking rather than taking it ? Do you clean up Sian and north China (I would do it), do you leave Kunming alone or go for it ?
Chungking will be bottled up. Too much time to conquer it and too many supplies.
I will shrink its perimeter as much as possible and then i'll bottle it up, starting a strat bombing campaign so to keep its supply production at its minimum.
Then I have to decide between Kunming and Sian. Don't think I can do both. not without leaving too many units in China anyway.
Kunming is closer to my main army, so it may be easier, but I hate the idea of a slug fest in those nasty mountain hexes...
Don't have decided yet. It all depends on how much it will take for Changsha...
In terms of defensive perimeter once the allies come back having a solide MLR in the mountains around Kunming is a must though.
Do you keep reconing the Sian zone ? How much troops does he have there ?
Adieu Ô Dieu odieux... signé Adam
RE: 1943!
ORIGINAL: veji1
ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
ORIGINAL: veji1
What is the end goal in terms of front line in China before you pack it up there ? Bottling Chungking rather than taking it ? Do you clean up Sian and north China (I would do it), do you leave Kunming alone or go for it ?
Chungking will be bottled up. Too much time to conquer it and too many supplies.
I will shrink its perimeter as much as possible and then i'll bottle it up, starting a strat bombing campaign so to keep its supply production at its minimum.
Then I have to decide between Kunming and Sian. Don't think I can do both. not without leaving too many units in China anyway.
Kunming is closer to my main army, so it may be easier, but I hate the idea of a slug fest in those nasty mountain hexes...
Don't have decided yet. It all depends on how much it will take for Changsha...
In terms of defensive perimeter once the allies come back having a solide MLR in the mountains around Kunming is a must though.
Do you keep reconing the Sian zone ? How much troops does he have there ?
I agree, but yet i do not have unlimited forces. I can't advance towards Kunming and Sian at the same time while i keep Chungking bottled up.
Need to make a choice.
Sian should be doable. There are less than 100,000 troopers there now, even if forts could be very high by now.
To get there, however, i need to shift completely the front, which takes quite a lot of time.
Probably Kunming is a better option at this point of the war...
mmmm....
We'll see. For the moment i am moving down from the plains one more Tank Division, substituted by 2 regular Inf divisions.
I will try to use mainly tanks on the Mountain Hexes that approaches Kunming, so to maximise the firepower in those very tiny SL hexes 20,000/25,000 at max
RE: 1943!
No, that's not what I'm implying. What I'm trying to say is that Obvert is going to take Madras before he moves into eastern India regardless of how long it takes. Why else would he devote nearly 6,000 AV in a siege away from the main front lines? If I had to guess, I'd say Madras lasts until early summer 1943 which I don't consider "soon". Eventually Allied firepower will be too much but even then it will take a heavy toll on the attackers.ORIGINAL: GreyJoyYou seem to imply that Madras is going to fall soon. Based on what you see in terms of composition of the opposing forces, do you think 6 forts aren't enough at this point?ORIGINAL: Sangeli
Ya, I can't think of any good reason to do this. What harm would come to the Allies if Madras was simply isolated and left alone? Wouldn't take more than 1000 AV to keep Madras under control leaving 5000 AV available for other moves. It's going to take a while to take down Madras and given the fact it is only early 1943, those divisions will be reformed and may even make it back to Eastern India to fight again. Very possible Obvert will end up fighting some of these divisions twice in India.
In my mind this is a very easy choice: you go for Kunming for sure. No matter what, you need to clear out the Kunming pocket before the Allies reach Burma. Leaving it alone means you are taking a risk in case the Allies take Burma with some surprise attack. If those Chinese forces there somehow escape, they will be able to withdraw and rebuild to help fill the manpower shortage the Allies have in the India theatre. Let's not forget that even though China is nearly destroyed, their squad production is unchanged and those Chinese corps can become behemoths. Moreover, an advance through the mountains here puts your units in position to reinforce Burma immediately after the operation is over without having to board ships. And based off the current state of things they will probably become available in Burma just as you really need them to be. On the other hand, Sian is very isolated and there isn't too much issue leaving it alone for a while. If you did take it it would be a number of months before those units could redeploy somewhere else to be useful.ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
I agree, but yet i do not have unlimited forces. I can't advance towards Kunming and Sian at the same time while i keep Chungking bottled up.
Need to make a choice.
Sian should be doable. There are less than 100,000 troopers there now, even if forts could be very high by now.
To get there, however, i need to shift completely the front, which takes quite a lot of time.
Probably Kunming is a better option at this point of the war...
mmmm....
We'll see. For the moment i am moving down from the plains one more Tank Division, substituted by 2 regular Inf divisions.
I will try to use mainly tanks on the Mountain Hexes that approaches Kunming, so to maximise the firepower in those very tiny SL hexes 20,000/25,000 at max
RE: 1943!
ORIGINAL: Sangeli
Ya, I can't think of any good reason to do this. What harm would come to the Allies if Madras was simply isolated and left alone? Wouldn't take more than 1000 AV to keep Madras under control leaving 5000 AV available for other moves. It's going to take a while to take down Madras and given the fact it is only early 1943, those divisions will be reformed and may even make it back to Eastern India to fight again. Very possible Obvert will end up fighting some of these divisions twice in India.ORIGINAL: crsutton
Yes, I find fault with Obvert going for a massive siege in Madras. He knows you have one tank division bottled up there and with his superior mobile units should be driving down the open ground between Deli and Calcutta. It is a total waste to use these great units in siege fighting. No Japanese unit at this stage can fight them in open ground. In 1944 the Allies can engage in slugging matches but in early 43 they need to capitalize on their mobility.
Well, it is always good to destroy Japanese divisions. Rebuilding them cost scant resources and they never come back with the experience that they once had. Frankly it is only the high experience of Japanese troops that give them a chance vs 1943 TO&E Allied units.
I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.
Sigismund of Luxemburg
Sigismund of Luxemburg
RE: 1943!
Agreed but it depends on the cost of destroying those divisions. At Madras I expect the cost to be very high in both time spent and destroyed squads as the Japanese have good supply and even naval superiority. At this point there probably isn't a more costly place for the Allies to attack than Madras. Not to mention under the current circumstances it may be possible for Japan to evacuate some of those units before they are destroyed which would really make it a waste for the Allies.ORIGINAL: crsutton
Well, it is always good to destroy Japanese divisions. Rebuilding them cost scant resources and they never come back with the experience that they once had. Frankly it is only the high experience of Japanese troops that give them a chance vs 1943 TO&E Allied units.
EDIT: More costly place for a land attack. Amphibious invasions are a different story.
RE: 1943!
ORIGINAL: Sangeli
Agreed but it depends on the cost of destroying those divisions. At Madras I expect the cost to be very high in both time spent and destroyed squads as the Japanese have good supply and even naval superiority. At this point there probably isn't a more costly place for the Allies to attack than Madras. Not to mention under the current circumstances it may be possible for Japan to evacuate some of those units before they are destroyed which would really make it a waste for the Allies.ORIGINAL: crsutton
Well, it is always good to destroy Japanese divisions. Rebuilding them cost scant resources and they never come back with the experience that they once had. Frankly it is only the high experience of Japanese troops that give them a chance vs 1943 TO&E Allied units.
EDIT: More costly place for a land attack. Amphibious invasions are a different story.
I agree. That's why i chose to stay at Madras. It can be a trap, i know, but there is a chance to fix 250,000 allied army there. There's even a USMC division (3rd marines) there. As long as those units are there, they are not threatening Burma or the DEI.
Also, i have had such a bad experiences agaist Mr.Kane in these kind of sieges that i wanna try to do the same.
Now more 45,000 supplies are unloading at Madras. The arrival of the KI-44c and the A6M5c could help me contest the air throughout mid 1943. Obviously, if i will have teh chance, i will abbandon Madras by the summer of 1943...but considering that i was already falling back from my advanced positions in India by October 1942, i consider the last 5/6 months a tactical and strategical victory my still being in India strong
RE: 1943!
Feb 22, 43
If i needed a confirm of where the allied CVs are, now i may have it.
Many TFs are spotted near Portland (Southern Oz), advancing westwards. My subs were unlucky today... but that's ok, i got some intel anyway.
Movements are spotted also near Nauru Is. Naval bombings and lots of LSTs moving west... another amphib landing?
The allied cruisers arrive at Buin, finding my brave DDs and my mines[:D]. Tanaka was arriving with 2BBs and 4CAs just few hours later...but the allies had already fallen back...pity
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Nauru Island at 128,130
Japanese Ships
SS RO-60
Allied Ships
CA Chicago
CA San Francisco
DD Shaw
DD Strong
DD Tucker
DD Cassin
SS RO-60 launches 2 torpedoes at CA Chicago
RO-60 diving deep ....
DD Tucker fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Cassin fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Cassin fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Cassin fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Cassin fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Cassin fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Buin at 109,131, Range 11,000 Yards
Japanese Ships
DD Tamanami
DD Oboro
DD Kikuzuki
DD Yuzuki
DD Okikaze
DD Uruyuke, Shell hits 1
Allied Ships
CL Nashville, Shell hits 1
CL Columbia
DD Benham, Shell hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Ellet
DD Sterett
DD Wilson, Shell hits 1
DD Lang, Shell hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 177 encounters mine field at Buin (109,131)
Allied Ships
CL Columbia, Mine hits 1
DD Lang, Mine hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 205 encounters mine field at Buin (109,131)
Allied Ships
DD Lansdowne, Mine hits 1, on fire
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Portland at 75,168
Japanese Ships
SS I-162
Allied Ships
CA Salt Lake City
CA Northampton
DD Worden
SS I-162 launches 4 torpedoes at CA Salt Lake City
DD Worden fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Worden fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Worden attacking submerged sub ....
DD Worden fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Worden fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Naval bombardment of Nauru Island at 127,128 - Coastal Guns Fire Back!
9 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Allied Ships
CA Wichita
CA San Francisco
CA Chicago
DD Tucker
DD Cassin
DD Downes
DD Shaw
DD Strong
Japanese ground losses:
630 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 23 disabled
Non Combat: 4 destroyed, 38 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 8 (2 destroyed, 6 disabled)
Resources hits 1
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 4
Port hits 1
These are the forces north of Changsha...nothing to really worry about...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 81,51 (near Changsha)
Japanese Bombardment attack
Attacking force 7130 troops, 200 guns, 647 vehicles, Assault Value = 1203
Defending force 21186 troops, 30 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 280
Assaulting units:
3rd Tank Division
116th Division
39th Division
60th Division
4th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
12th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
11th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
11th Army
2nd Hvy.Artillery Regiment
1st Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
6th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
Tonei Hvy Gun Regiment
Defending units:
26th Chinese Corps
92nd Chinese Corps
79th Chinese Corps
3rd New Chinese Corps
6th War Area
30th Group Army
On the road towards Kunming... mountain hex...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 72,47 (near Kweiyang)
Japanese Deliberate attack
Attacking force 7673 troops, 135 guns, 79 vehicles, Assault Value = 541
Defending force 16777 troops, 102 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 345
Japanese adjusted assault: 187
Allied adjusted defense: 451
Japanese assault odds: 1 to 2
Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:
Japanese ground losses:
207 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 30 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 8 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Vehicles lost 3 (1 destroyed, 2 disabled)
Allied ground losses:
346 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 35 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Assaulting units:
19th Ind.Mixed Brigade
Guards Tank Division
13th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
23rd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
20th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
8th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
Defending units:
10th Chinese Corps
34th Chinese Corps
72nd Chinese Corps
35th Group Army
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Panggoe (111,133)
Allied Deliberate attack
Attacking force 3781 troops, 9 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 125
Defending force 734 troops, 3 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 29
Allied adjusted assault: 49
Japanese adjusted defense: 7
Allied assault odds: 7 to 1 (fort level 0)
Allied forces CAPTURE Panggoe !!!
Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), preparation(-), fatigue(-), experience(-)
Attacker:
Japanese ground losses:
393 casualties reported
Squads: 5 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 12 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 8 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 4 (4 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units retreated 1
Units destroyed 1
Allied ground losses:
37 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!
Assaulting units:
Fiji Bde /10
24th US Naval Construction Battalion
Defending units:
4th Raiding Regiment
46th Nav Gd /7
Pangoe is lost too... but that was foreseen.
In China i am following Veji's and Sangeli's suggestion and am planning the advance towards Kunming.
The plan is to push the allied units westwards, using the SLs against them. Kunming must be well supplied and fortfied by now, and my onlu hope to conquer it is to force him to overstack.That's what i will try to do.
As soon as Changsha will be liberated, lots of units will be free to roam westwards and i may even be able to extract a couple of crack divisions (16th for example) from China.
If i needed a confirm of where the allied CVs are, now i may have it.
Many TFs are spotted near Portland (Southern Oz), advancing westwards. My subs were unlucky today... but that's ok, i got some intel anyway.
Movements are spotted also near Nauru Is. Naval bombings and lots of LSTs moving west... another amphib landing?
The allied cruisers arrive at Buin, finding my brave DDs and my mines[:D]. Tanaka was arriving with 2BBs and 4CAs just few hours later...but the allies had already fallen back...pity
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Nauru Island at 128,130
Japanese Ships
SS RO-60
Allied Ships
CA Chicago
CA San Francisco
DD Shaw
DD Strong
DD Tucker
DD Cassin
SS RO-60 launches 2 torpedoes at CA Chicago
RO-60 diving deep ....
DD Tucker fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Cassin fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Cassin fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Cassin fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Cassin fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Cassin fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Buin at 109,131, Range 11,000 Yards
Japanese Ships
DD Tamanami
DD Oboro
DD Kikuzuki
DD Yuzuki
DD Okikaze
DD Uruyuke, Shell hits 1
Allied Ships
CL Nashville, Shell hits 1
CL Columbia
DD Benham, Shell hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Ellet
DD Sterett
DD Wilson, Shell hits 1
DD Lang, Shell hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 177 encounters mine field at Buin (109,131)
Allied Ships
CL Columbia, Mine hits 1
DD Lang, Mine hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 205 encounters mine field at Buin (109,131)
Allied Ships
DD Lansdowne, Mine hits 1, on fire
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Portland at 75,168
Japanese Ships
SS I-162
Allied Ships
CA Salt Lake City
CA Northampton
DD Worden
SS I-162 launches 4 torpedoes at CA Salt Lake City
DD Worden fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Worden fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Worden attacking submerged sub ....
DD Worden fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Worden fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Naval bombardment of Nauru Island at 127,128 - Coastal Guns Fire Back!
9 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Allied Ships
CA Wichita
CA San Francisco
CA Chicago
DD Tucker
DD Cassin
DD Downes
DD Shaw
DD Strong
Japanese ground losses:
630 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 23 disabled
Non Combat: 4 destroyed, 38 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 8 (2 destroyed, 6 disabled)
Resources hits 1
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 4
Port hits 1
These are the forces north of Changsha...nothing to really worry about...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 81,51 (near Changsha)
Japanese Bombardment attack
Attacking force 7130 troops, 200 guns, 647 vehicles, Assault Value = 1203
Defending force 21186 troops, 30 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 280
Assaulting units:
3rd Tank Division
116th Division
39th Division
60th Division
4th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
12th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
11th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
11th Army
2nd Hvy.Artillery Regiment
1st Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
6th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
Tonei Hvy Gun Regiment
Defending units:
26th Chinese Corps
92nd Chinese Corps
79th Chinese Corps
3rd New Chinese Corps
6th War Area
30th Group Army
On the road towards Kunming... mountain hex...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 72,47 (near Kweiyang)
Japanese Deliberate attack
Attacking force 7673 troops, 135 guns, 79 vehicles, Assault Value = 541
Defending force 16777 troops, 102 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 345
Japanese adjusted assault: 187
Allied adjusted defense: 451
Japanese assault odds: 1 to 2
Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:
Japanese ground losses:
207 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 30 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 8 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Vehicles lost 3 (1 destroyed, 2 disabled)
Allied ground losses:
346 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 35 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Assaulting units:
19th Ind.Mixed Brigade
Guards Tank Division
13th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
23rd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
20th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
8th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
Defending units:
10th Chinese Corps
34th Chinese Corps
72nd Chinese Corps
35th Group Army
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Panggoe (111,133)
Allied Deliberate attack
Attacking force 3781 troops, 9 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 125
Defending force 734 troops, 3 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 29
Allied adjusted assault: 49
Japanese adjusted defense: 7
Allied assault odds: 7 to 1 (fort level 0)
Allied forces CAPTURE Panggoe !!!
Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), preparation(-), fatigue(-), experience(-)
Attacker:
Japanese ground losses:
393 casualties reported
Squads: 5 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 12 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 8 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 4 (4 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units retreated 1
Units destroyed 1
Allied ground losses:
37 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!
Assaulting units:
Fiji Bde /10
24th US Naval Construction Battalion
Defending units:
4th Raiding Regiment
46th Nav Gd /7
Pangoe is lost too... but that was foreseen.
In China i am following Veji's and Sangeli's suggestion and am planning the advance towards Kunming.
The plan is to push the allied units westwards, using the SLs against them. Kunming must be well supplied and fortfied by now, and my onlu hope to conquer it is to force him to overstack.That's what i will try to do.
As soon as Changsha will be liberated, lots of units will be free to roam westwards and i may even be able to extract a couple of crack divisions (16th for example) from China.
RE: 1943!
ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
I agree. That's why i chose to stay at Madras. It can be a trap, i know, but there is a chance to fix 250,000 allied army there. There's even a USMC division (3rd marines) there. As long as those units are there, they are not threatening Burma or the DEI.
Also, i have had such a bad experiences agaist Mr.Kane in these kind of sieges that i wanna try to do the same.
One note on destroyed and rebuilt divisions.....the units that Greyjoy chose for Madras are generally not the cream of the IJA. The 41st, and those 2 Guards divisions are mid-50s experience units that, when re-built, will look pretty much the same. If you are going to get guys killed, it's a good idea to make it the 50-experience guys, because replacements will be at the same level (after some training).
The only elite division there is the 38th
RE: 1943!
ORIGINAL: Q-Ball
ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
I agree. That's why i chose to stay at Madras. It can be a trap, i know, but there is a chance to fix 250,000 allied army there. There's even a USMC division (3rd marines) there. As long as those units are there, they are not threatening Burma or the DEI.
Also, i have had such a bad experiences agaist Mr.Kane in these kind of sieges that i wanna try to do the same.
One note on destroyed and rebuilt divisions.....the units that Greyjoy chose for Madras are generally not the cream of the IJA. The 41st, and those 2 Guards divisions are mid-50s experience units that, when re-built, will look pretty much the same. If you are going to get guys killed, it's a good idea to make it the 50-experience guys, because replacements will be at the same level (after some training).
The only elite division there is the 38th
Excatly Brad. The 36th is already a re-built division. Was one of the two completely destroyed during the "Sian Debacle" (along with the 41st) and rebuilt almost from scratch.
The 38th is a Crack one, but I can efford to lose it, considering the experience my divisions in China are gaining lately.
Anyway, I am not really planning to sacrifice those IDs. If things will go really bad, I think I may be able to extract them using the KB in support. For the moment, however, they are staying there and building forts
RE: 1943!
Feb 23, 1943
The CL Kashii is torpedoed twice by an American sub while escorting the oilers back from Colombo to Singapore... sunk immediately...too bad[:o]
The KB escaped from the first allied subs-screen and is now moving back to the shadows between Singapore and Ceylon.
7 BIG TFs are spotted moving towards Esperance (SW OZ). CVs, BBs, CAs, DDs and several transports... the invasion is arriving
More naval bombings at Nauru island...
In China we destroyed a Chinese corp north of Changsha. Some 190 AVs managed to escape to the city, which is now completely isolated.
Another 1-2 on the road to Kunming. Need time and lots of patience there...
Nothing more to report. Supplies keep on rising at the great rate of 9/10K per turn![:D]
The CL Kashii is torpedoed twice by an American sub while escorting the oilers back from Colombo to Singapore... sunk immediately...too bad[:o]
The KB escaped from the first allied subs-screen and is now moving back to the shadows between Singapore and Ceylon.
7 BIG TFs are spotted moving towards Esperance (SW OZ). CVs, BBs, CAs, DDs and several transports... the invasion is arriving
More naval bombings at Nauru island...
In China we destroyed a Chinese corp north of Changsha. Some 190 AVs managed to escape to the city, which is now completely isolated.
Another 1-2 on the road to Kunming. Need time and lots of patience there...
Nothing more to report. Supplies keep on rising at the great rate of 9/10K per turn![:D]
RE: 1943!
ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
Anyway, I am not really planning to sacrifice those IDs. If things will go really bad, I think I may be able to extract them using the KB in support. For the moment, however, they are staying there and building forts
Even if you were to lose those, keeping him busy in India so that he only starts nibbling at Burma in very late 43 or early 44 is in itself worth a few divisions.
I really like the defensive set up in India. the offensive was disappointing, didn't yield the hoped for results in terms of ennemy losses and industry. But I find such a defensive setup Ceylon + Madras anchoring the Bengal bay and then the classic Assam defense very intriguing and I possibly very effective.
Adieu Ô Dieu odieux... signé Adam
RE: 1943!
At first I was skeptical of the plan but I'm beginning to realize eastern India is more defendable than I originally thought. Patna really anchors the line and even though there are plains to the "east" of it (really more north IRL), the lack of bases there means any Allied flanking maneuver would be pummeled from Japanese bombers. And on the other end, Ceylon nicely protects the open naval flank to allow the Japanese to make Madras a tenable position. I don't actually see Madras as being important in this strategic defense but as I've said before its an ideal place to stand and fight the Allies if they choose to attack it which seems to be the case. And I think Obvert's tendency to concentrate his forces for large deliberate assaults rather than advancing on multiple axes to feel out weaknesses in Japanese defenses and then committing reserves at the weak point is playing right into Greyjoy's hand.ORIGINAL: veji1
I really like the defensive set up in India. the offensive was disappointing, didn't yield the hoped for results in terms of ennemy losses and industry. But I find such a defensive setup Ceylon + Madras anchoring the Bengal bay and then the classic Assam defense very intriguing and I possibly very effective.