Greyjoy(J) vs. Obvert(A) - The air war in China- DBB, SLs, PDU OFF

[Cribtop]

One point on Sian. Don't forget that if you capture the Oil at Sian and Lanchow you will dramatically extend the viable economic life of Manchukuo and thus of Japan.

[Sangeli]

ORIGINAL: Cribtop
One point on Sian. Don't forget that if you capture the Oil at Sian and Lanchow you will dramatically extend the viable economic life of Manchukuo and thus of Japan.

While that is true I also think that Greyjoy's oil situation is quite secure right now given his position. And since Sian is isolated, that oil is going to be produced and stockpiled. Even if Grejoy goes for Kunming first, he will be able to take Sian well before oil security will be an issue.

[MrKane]

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

ORIGINAL: Cribtop
One point on Sian. Don't forget that if you capture the Oil at Sian and Lanchow you will dramatically extend the viable economic life of Manchukuo and thus of Japan.

While that is true I also think that Greyjoy's oil situation is quite secure right now given his position. And since Sian is isolated, that oil is going to be produced and stockpiled. Even if Grejoy goes for Kunming first, he will be able to take Sian well before oil security will be an issue.

I think that oil in Sian goes to HI and make supplies helping rebuild Chinese Army. I do not think Obvert is stockpiling oil for GJ.

[MrKane]

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

One point on Sian. Don't forget that if you capture the Oil at Sian and Lanchow you will dramatically extend the viable economic life of Manchukuo and thus of Japan.

+1

[MrKane]

To evacuate Madras you do not need KB Nicola. Do you remember my evacuation of Kota Bhara in our game ? Just bring a lot of APs (you need pack units 1-2 days before), 2 - 3 group warships. Suppress allied by shore bombardment, load troops, last turn fly out your fighters and sail away at full speed.

[Sangeli]

ORIGINAL: MrKane
I think that oil in Sian goes to HI and make supplies helping rebuild Chinese Army. I do not think Obvert is stockpiling oil for GJ.

Well how much of that oil is actually used by the heavy industry? I guess I was under the impression that the oil in Sian and Lanchow is what supplies all of China so without the rest of China the majority of it would end up being stockpiled. I guess its just a question of how much HI is in the Sian pocket vs. the oil production.

EDIT: I should mention that I am far from an expert on the production aspect of this game so if I'm asking these questions its because I really just don't know these things (yet).

[MrKane]

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

ORIGINAL: MrKane
I think that oil in Sian goes to HI and make supplies helping rebuild Chinese Army. I do not think Obvert is stockpiling oil for GJ.

Well how much of that oil is actually used by the heavy industry? I guess I was under the impression that the oil in Sian and Lanchow is what supplies all of China so without the rest of China the majority of it would end up being stockpiled. I guess its just a question of how much HI is in the Sian pocket vs. the oil production.

EDIT: I should mention that I am far from an expert on the production aspect of this game so if I'm asking these questions its because I really just don't know these things (yet).

Sian HI == Oil so, not stockpiling. Lanchow can be just turn off not need for more oil.

[Sangeli]

ORIGINAL: MrKane
Sian HI == Oil so, not stockpiling. Lanchow can be just turn off not need for more oil.

But I don't think you can turn off oil production.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

ORIGINAL: MrKane
Sian HI == Oil so, not stockpiling. Lanchow can be just turn off not need for more oil.

But I don't think you can turn off oil production.

You can't. You can turn off refinery production, however....

I'm of the mind that, pretty soon here, that Oil's got nowhere to flow. Sian is independent, but Lanchow...

I would put units on the roads to keep that bottled up, but keep in mind that if it reaches its oil storage maximum you're losing out, kind of. Maybe keep the road open between Lanchow and Sian, as some would almost inevitably flow to Sian.

[crsutton]

Neither place has significant oil storage so Japan is not going to get a windfall. By if you take them intact then you get some nice juice flowing until the Allies can reach them with B29s. Every drop is important.

[MrKane]

Summarizing: In my opinion strategic target > tactical target.

[Sangeli]

ORIGINAL: MrKane

Summarizing: In my opinion strategic target > tactical target.

Yea but both Kunming and Sian/Lanchow are strategic targets. It's more a question of valuing industry vs. preventing the Chinese infantry from escaping.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

ORIGINAL: veji1
I really like the defensive set up in India. the offensive was disappointing, didn't yield the hoped for results in terms of ennemy losses and industry. But I find such a defensive setup Ceylon + Madras anchoring the Bengal bay and then the classic Assam defense very intriguing and I possibly very effective.

At first I was skeptical of the plan but I'm beginning to realize eastern India is more defendable than I originally thought. Patna really anchors the line and even though there are plains to the "east" of it (really more north IRL), the lack of bases there means any Allied flanking maneuver would be pummeled from Japanese bombers. And on the other end, Ceylon nicely protects the open naval flank to allow the Japanese to make Madras a tenable position. I don't actually see Madras as being important in this strategic defense but as I've said before its an ideal place to stand and fight the Allies if they choose to attack it which seems to be the case. And I think Obvert's tendency to concentrate his forces for large deliberate assaults rather than advancing on multiple axes to feel out weaknesses in Japanese defenses and then committing reserves at the weak point is playing right into Greyjoy's hand.

Actually Madras isn't necessary. Ceylon-Diego being thereal key. Initially the idea was to lure him into the plains east of Patna and let him penetrate till Ansalon, just for then trapping the whole enchilada with the landing of 6/8 divisions from China and cutting the supply path of the enemy army driving the tanks eastwards from Patna. But it didn't work.
Anyway it has worked in another way. Holding Diego and Ceylon forbidts the Allies the access to the Bay of Bengal and Burma is pretty much safe without the naval support. This situation won't last forever, i know. The key will be to jump out before he has the strenght to contest a real landing behind my lines even with the KB present

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

One point on Sian. Don't forget that if you capture the Oil at Sian and Lanchow you will dramatically extend the viable economic life of Manchukuo and thus of Japan.

I know Crib...

Sian should be doable even in the end of 1943, while Lanchow i think it's a lost cause. Too many good terrain hexes where he has digged in for ages now...

We'll see.

Now the targets are these, in order of priority:

1- Conquer Changsha, thus freeing up 2 armies with 8 full divisions
2- Bottle Chungking
3- Advance towards Kunming
4- Conquer Sian

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: MrKane

To evacuate Madras you do not need KB Nicola. Do you remember my evacuation of Kota Bhara in our game ? Just bring a lot of APs (you need pack units 1-2 days before), 2 - 3 group warships. Suppress allied by shore bombardment, load troops, last turn fly out your fighters and sail away at full speed.

I perfectly remember what you did at Kotha Baru and that's what i was thinking about when i planned my Madras defence and exit strategy. However in that occasion you managed to defend the skies of Kotha Baru with a crackload of excellent fighters (Ki-94s, KI-84, KI-83s, N1K5 etc), while here i have to fight him with A6M5 and KI-43 IIIa and IIb... so there is the possibility that i may lose the control of the skies of Madras..in that case only with the presence of the KB i can hope to mass the transports to succesfully Dunkerque 4 Divisions in a single night...

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

ORIGINAL: MrKane

Summarizing: In my opinion strategic target > tactical target.

Yea but both Kunming and Sian/Lanchow are strategic targets. It's more a question of valuing industry vs. preventing the Chinese infantry from escaping.

I tend to think a bit differently here.

I value the "position" targets more than the industrial target. It's way too easy to destroy industry, while it is much more difficult to crack a strong defensive position.

The Kunming-Paoshan-Tsuyun complex is a tough nut to crack and i see the value of it when the allies will be advancing in Burma. I prefer to have less oil and a more solid position that can keep the allied bombers as far away as possible (and as long as possible) from the DEI and the HI

[GreyJoy]

Feb 23, 1943

Today i had a better vision of the allied fleet approaching Esperance: the whole enchilada is getting there!

The KB-1 stopped at Colombo in order to complete the upgrade process. Now the KB is composed like that: Fighters (50% A6M5 and 50% A6M5c), DBs (D4Y1), TB (B6N1). This composition will remain the same for the most part of 1943. The next step will be the upgrade step that will put the A6M8 online (somewhere around this summer i think).

We'll now move back out of his air search, hoping to stop Erik's advance at Exmouth.

In SW Oz we've left behind at Perth just enough forces to hold the base a some 400 planes along with 2 BBs, 4 CAs and 17 DDs... should be enough to discourage him from doing anything too bold.

[leehunt27@bloomberg.net]

Learning so much from this AAR-- makes me want to start up another game as the Japanese soon! (but got enough on my plate currently). Its fascinating how many different strategies and decisions must be made in the course of each game. Its also quite fun to follow Obvert's AAR and see the whole picture

[Yaab]

The Fuhrer is asking whether the Umboi Festung has been completed. Ferro-concrete U-boot pens, 8.8 kanone in quadruple mounts, steel pagodas, Type 95 "Tiger" tanks and cosy bunkers for the Japanese kameraden - the usual stuff of the Pacific Wall.

[sanderz]

ORIGINAL: Yaab

The Fuhrer is asking whether the Umboi Festung has been completed. Ferro-concrete U-boot pens, 8.8 kanone in quadruple mounts, steel pagodas, Type 95 "Tiger" tanks and cosy bunkers for the Japanese kameraden - the usual stuff of the Pacific Wall.

i am sure greyjoy is secretly working on all these secret jap weapons and will crush the yankee menace