Preliminary Conclusion - GGWitW

[KenchiSulla]

Hi all,

I've now put in a few hours into the game, trying to figure out controls, mechanics and getting a feeling for this game. For what it's worth, I'll document my observations in this thread. Mind you, I do not consider this a full review. I did not play the game long enough for that...

This is the sixth Gary Grigsby game I’ve played. The first one I picked up was Battle of Britain, published by Talonsoft in the ‘90s, then War in the Pacific and later the Admiral’s Edition. I’ve also played Eagle day to Bombing the Reich and, of course, War in the East. Why am I saying this? Easy, two reasons:

– game interface…
Let’s be honest.. Grigsby interfaces… phew. At times it feels like you are climbing the Everest just moving your units around. Clunky, many, many, MANY mouse clicks and hidden information

– game features…
BoB / Eagle day to Bombing the Reich focused on the air war. Sure, in bombing the reich you could influence the moving of the front lines (or was it bugged?) but in the end it was all about bombing crap and shooting down crap using a terrible interface.. Still enjoyable for people with an interest in the era but a good, well supported game? No…

War in the Pacific (AE) is my all time favorite game. It has logistics, (grand) strategy, tactics, navy, army and air all combined in one massive experience. It’s biggest problems are its (improved, and still being improved mind you) interface and scale. Let’s be honest, it takes years to complete a full game… That’s a long time..

War in the West just feels like the result of a big “lessons learned” session.. Yes it needs to be tuned and there are always (minor) bugs to be squashed but the basic features are there and looking good... And, not unimportant: You can complete a PBEM in an acceptable amount of time!

[Kronolog]

I feel that I've got my money's worth already, which unfortunately can't be said for most games these days. The promise of additional patches only makes it better. [:)]

[Gorforlin]

Yes great game.

At first I thought it would never come close to WitE, but I was wrong.

The air war is much better then I thought and the hole invasion system seems balanced and leaves allot of options for WA's,
while at the same time Germany has more then enough punch to drive back any "stupid" invasion.

[ratprince]

I agree. It is a great game. My dollar per hour is now about .50 cents...hehe... Ive put in about 50 hours playing already and its a hoot. Totally different than WITE but also so much alike that it is easy to pick up and just start playing with lots under the hood to slowly absorb.

Wonderful effort by GG and team.

[smokindave34]

+1

The developers appear to have addressed all the shortcomings of WITE (logistics, air war, victory conditions etc.). I've been really impressed so far. Now....when will WITE 2.0 be released [;)] [;)]

[SigUp]

ORIGINAL: smokindave34

+1

The developers appear to have addressed all the shortcomings of WITE (logistics, air war, victory conditions etc.). I've been really impressed so far. Now....when will WITE 2.0 be released [;)] [;)]

Don't forget the new isolation rules and the toning down of retreat losses. [;)]

[joey]

ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder

Hi all,

I've now put in a few hours into the game, trying to figure out controls, mechanics and getting a feeling for this game. For what it's worth, I'll document my observations in this thread. Mind you, I do not consider this a full review. I did not play the game long enough for that...

This is the sixth Gary Grigsby game I’ve played. The first one I picked up was Battle of Britain, published by Talonsoft in the ‘90s, then War in the Pacific and later the Admiral’s Edition. I’ve also played Eagle day to Bombing the Reich and, of course, War in the East. Why am I saying this? Easy, two reasons:

– game interface…
Let’s be honest.. Grigsby interfaces… phew. At times it feels like you are climbing the Everest just moving your units around. Clunky, many, many, MANY mouse clicks and hidden information

– game features…
BoB / Eagle day to Bombing the Reich focused on the air war. Sure, in bombing the reich you could influence the moving of the front lines (or was it bugged?) but in the end it was all about bombing crap and shooting down crap using a terrible interface.. Still enjoyable for people with an interest in the era but a good, well supported game? No…

War in the Pacific (AE) is my all time favorite game. It has logistics, (grand) strategy, tactics, navy, army and air all combined in one massive experience. It’s biggest problems are its (improved, and still being improved mind you) interface and scale. Let’s be honest, it takes years to complete a full game… That’s a long time..

War in the West just feels like the result of a big “lessons learned” session.. Yes it needs to be tuned and there are always (minor) bugs to be squashed but the basic features are there and looking good... And, not unimportant: You can complete a PBEM in an acceptable amount of time!

Cannonfodder, I think you and I have been playing GG games for about the same amount of time. I started in the early 1980s so my wife tells me....
And yes WitW uses the GG mechanics of game play. I suppose every programmer has his or hers signature code, and Gary has his.
I suppose by today's standards it is a bit outdated, but I would imagine some of us still like it. But deep down most of us would like a few tweaks here and there. I, too, hate all the mouse clicks!
Yes, I suppose there is too much emphasis on the air war. I know one of my uncles would disagree, but the air war did not cripple Germany, as some contend. I learned that a long time ago in college.

I would like to see a few more controls on the air war, such as mission distance limits and limits that stop missions if enough escorts are not available. I have yet to figure out how to get the AI to stop unescorted missions....
My favorite game is also AE. I could use a bit more micromanaging, but I am just that way. If I were the President, I would likely die of a heart attack, because I like to run everything.
If I had to give this game a grade, I would grade it a B+. If you knew my students, you would take the B+ and be happy. I tend to grade very hard.
But, given the team behind this release, I believe it will be an A in a short period of time. After all, what is the purpose of this and all games if not to provide a way to kill time and to elicit conversation. I think it has done both.

[atheory]

I love the scale of WitP:AE and I personally love that it can take a long time to conclude a game. There are shorter scenarios to play instead of the monster campaign games. Personally I hate small scenarios, they do little for me as I know a larger impact can be made with the campaign scenarios. But that's just me.

Playing a game is playing game to me, whether you complete one, or complete a dozen in the same time. But alas, do each their own of course.

I am not confident that the Germans have much punch. I'm sure I'm doing something wrong, or not know what I'm doing just yet at all, but after a contested allied naval landing against dug in germans and the allies suffering lots of casualties, I was unable to drive one polish airborne brigade back from an assault of 5 Divisions, including some armor/mechanized ones. So far in my limited trial and error runs as playing the Germans, I've found their "offensive" punch next to non-existent and are merely defensive buffers to prevent allied air from ever creeping closer to Germany.

I do enjoy the challenge of the game thus far, the mechanics and new features are promising. I do hope for an eventual leap forward with a remake of WitE and WitP:AE with these mechanics.

[KenchiSulla]

Hi,

The fact that I think the (time)scale of WitP AE is a bit unmanageable doesn't stop me from actually actively PBEMing ..

Joey, you can dictate minimum aircraft and escort in each individual raid. Each explained from 5.3.6 onwards. It is explained in the following part:

MIN AC(ESC): Select link to set the minimum number
of bombers/fighter bombers and the minimum
number of escorts that must be available in order
for a mission to be launched. A text box for each
type of aircraft will be displayed sequentially. As long
as the minimum is available, a mission will be flown.
§§ REQ AC(ESC): Select link to set the requested
number of bombers/fighter bombers and the
requested number of escorts that the player
would like to have fly the mission if available. A
text box for each type of aircraft will be displayed
sequentially. If no player input, then REQ AC(ESC)
will match MIN AC(ESC). If MIN AC(ESC) is available,
a mission will be flown.

[offenseman]

I am pretty darn impressed and the further I get into it, the more impressed I am.

[Gorforlin]

No swapping, morale, ammo, national morale or armament bugs.

No game killing bugs like WitE, just minor things.