Serious on purchasing. Some thoughts?

[kev_uk]

Hi folks
I probably will make use of the discount on WitE within the next few days and buy it. Some things I have read though which lead me to ask a few questions here:

i) Does each turn take as long to plan as WitP did? I wanted so much to love that game, but the hour+ turns really started to make it a chore and an excercise in patience rather than something I wanted to play and enjoy. I totally skipped AE as was very concerned with making it MORE of a monster. It maybe is my age, but I just cant justify spending hours+ on a single turn. Its not that I dislike the detail, in fact I love the detail in GGs games; but time...

ii) How is the AI? Usual question here I guess, but I want both a challenging Axis AND Soviet AI. I was not that impressed with WitP AI - another gripe which led me not to purchase AE. I remember back when WitE was released Joel Billings was stating the AI was good...?

iii) These games are true time sinkers. How long roughly does a single campaign take? Could I finish one playing a few hours a day for say, a week or more?

Really want a good wargame to play, something with some meat and bones on it (the details..) and does not take me a whole evening to play two or three turns....

Thanks folks.

[Faucheur]

Hi Ken !
i) Probably not, except for the 1st german turn. Usually it takes about 1/2 hours to achieve a turn, sometimes less (when the weather is bad).
ii) The AI is probably too close to historic behavior, but it's not so bad.
iii) A grand campaign is impossible to achieve in a few days (it's 224 turns long). But the smaller scenarii may be played in a few days, provided you run several turns at each session...

According to my humble opinion, you should purchase it

[Rommel76]

Don't think twice, it's a very very good game!

[Mehring]

You can't compare this with WitP, it's not a simultaneous real time game, and the feel is very different. That said, to play this well, it's a major time sink and you can expect to spend 1-4 hours on a turn, depending on the intensity of your involvement in the game and what's going on on the ground.

[kev_uk]

Hmm...
Ok, so if I am going to spend an hour planning with the Campaign, does the Axis or the Soviet AI give me a challenge enough to warrant spending that long time invested in it? I brought WitP when it was first released, the AI sucked. Had to be Pbem to get the enjoyment, so one turn a day.

The best game GG did IMHO was Uncommon Valor - a small but important segment of the Pacific War with the detail and not such a big endeavor as WitP was. Still play it on occasion to get my Pacific fix. :/

Will probably pick up WitE tho before the sale ends.

[loki100]

The AI is good, once you get used to the game you'll need to give it bonuses to make the game a real challenge but for example from the Soviet side my only real grumbles with the axis AI is it sometimes is too aggressive (meaning you can cut off its spearheads), probably does too many low odds attacks and fails to shift the Pzrs from AGN at the end of 1941.

Playing as the axis, you can stomp on the AI if you start to pull all sorts of gamey stunts, but with some bonuses it will really challenge you if you avoid pushing the rule set.

All in all its good - my first full campaign with the Soviets came down to taking Berlin in late Jan 45, with the Germans it was clear the game was heading for a draw by early 44 so I gave up (not least a new patch was on the horizon)

as with all such games though, it really shines in PBEM. In effect knowing that another human is putting down 5-10 turn plots to really damage you makes your own planning so much more fun [8D]

Some of the scenarios you can play in afternoon - Road to Leningrad is a good eg of this. For the campaign, even against the AI with the Soviets I'd say reckon on 2-3 hours per turn. Particularly with the Soviets there is a lot of admin stuff you just need to do.

[micheljq]

ORIGINAL: kev_uk

Hmm...
Ok, so if I am going to spend an hour planning with the Campaign, does the Axis or the Soviet AI give me a challenge enough to warrant spending that long time invested in it? I brought WitP when it was first released, the AI sucked. Had to be Pbem to get the enjoyment, so one turn a day.

The best game GG did IMHO was Uncommon Valor - a small but important segment of the Pacific War with the detail and not such a big endeavor as WitP was. Still play it on occasion to get my Pacific fix. :/

Will probably pick up WitE tho before the sale ends.

I do own WitP and never played it, too much complexity and administration and the interface is really not user friendly.

WitE i play my first campaign and I find the AI challenging, the panzer divisions do use my mistakes and isolate my soviet divisions when they can.

Uncommon Valor is a great game!

Michel.

[Rankorian]

Bought it recently.

Love it.

I actually played WITP for about 100 hours. Like this much better--start with the small tutorial scenarios and work up. This has the under-the-engine Grog complexity, but one can actually forget that, left click on a unit, right click it to move/battle, and have fun from the get-go.

[Timotheus]

Dude.

Dude.

Every unit out of the Axis (not just German - Axis, including Hungarian, Romanian, Italian, Slovakian and Spanish) OOB is present.

I jumped immediately into the grand campaign because the scenarios are basically "learn to play" a specific part of the game, while the grand campaign is the MAIN thing.

The AI is not bad, actually.

Game is still getting patched which is a good sign as WITW is out and the devs surely focus 99% of their energies on that.

While the game has a tremendously huge gigantic manual it actually is... not that hard to grasp the concepts and basically once you get it, you will just click your mouse to move your units all over the map like a pro... err, grognard.

Be advised - this is a HUGE time sink, and might take over your life.

It's not a hobby - it's a lifestyle choice [:D]

[kev_uk]

Thanks for all the replies - now the question is: should I or shouldn't I? Its a one off chance folks, its a sale and I have been looking at this title since its release.

I did. Its downloading, so please welcome me to wasted hours as I re-live the glory of those Panzers and Guard Armies battling it out on the Russian Steppes...see you on the other side folks.

[Timotheus]

ORIGINAL: kev_uk

I did. Its downloading, so please welcome me to wasted hours as I re-live the glory of those Panzers and Guard Armies battling it out on the Russian Steppes...see you on the other side folks.

LOL, as if there was any doubt that you WOULDN'T get this game.

Pffft.

My advice - it's all fun and games until you learn about the first winter rule and blizzard (look up my post).