Opening 5 turns as allied in campaign

[kip1213]

Just some thoughts. I have had the game for a month, and I am starting over yet again!! I have done the first day step by step tutorial and followed it. It is said I should move my carrier task forces close to wake island. 4 out of 5 times the enemy task force finds my tf and sinks one carrier and sinks a bunch more of my ships. The one of the five times I had my carrier planes damage tf hitting wake island. To be safe, should I stay away from wake island and bring my carrier TF south and then to PH.

[pontiouspilot]

I have never had the AI manage to catch either Lex or Ent early on. Some human opponents will try thus I run to beat hell as far south as it takes. In some human PBEM games people use house rules to avoid the hunting of these 2 CVs early on. Face it, the Japanese are not supposed to know where they are. It sounds like it is time to ignore the tutorial...you now know what can happen!

[kip1213]

I understand, but the enemy TF that attacks PH will retreat towards wake island, after second move. This TF is the one that has sunk my carriers. I figure now, since wake island is going to fall anyway, I will head south and head back to PH after 5 or 6 turns. Just sucks putting all this time in the first 4 or 5 moves and have a carrier sunk.

[Jim D Burns]

I always move towards Wake, but only so I can transfer the fighter group there onto a CV, so once the CV’s get close enough I pull out the fighters and then leave the area (I never get close to the island, just get within transfer range for the fighters). There is no place you should look for a CV engagement in the first 6-8 months of the war as the allies.

You need time for your fighter group sizes to increase, air frame replacements to accumulate so you can get F4F’s in all the groups and pilots skills to max out in training for every single CV squadron you have. Then and only then would I consider a voluntary CV engagement and even then I’d want land based air to assist so fighting a defensive battle would be my normal operating procedure into 1943.

Once F6F’s arrive then going out and looking for trouble is fine as you have a good chance to win by then. Until that time you need to be very conservative if and when you use your CV’s. KB is simply too powerful early war, it’s probably a 90% chance you’d lose a CV fight. And if you lose your starting carriers early war, you lose all of 1943 as a period of time you could be counter-attacking.

Jim

[geofflambert]

I think it's gamey to try and intercept the US CV TFs and so does everyone else. IJN thought they'd be at PH, they weren't, there was no plan b for finding them. Do get the squadron off as it will be about 18 mo. before you start getting significant #s of fighter sqds. I tend to think the US needs to get those P-40s off of Luzon and back to Oz as it will be quite a while before they have much fighter defense in the Solomon Sea area.

[JeffroK]

Against the AI, I regularly get in position to hit the IJN TF invading Wake.
Unescorted, they are easy meat, cony=tain a few useful warships and help gain experience. IMVHO worth the risk.

Against a live player I doubt I would do this but.....

I split my egress either North towards Dutch Harbour or south then pass south of Johnston Island.

[Malagant]

IMO the Opening Moves spreadsheet is just that...Opening Moves. You will want to make changes to the orders within a day or two. As said above, a move to Wake to transfer the Marine Wildcats off before the island is captured is a solid idea. This also gets your CVs closer together. However, the intent is not to stay there. As also mentioned above, that leaves the CVs on the route the Japanese CVs will be taking to get home. Get the US CVs within 18 hexes, transfer the Marines off, and GTFO. You should be out of danger in 3 days or so, I think.

[Jim D Burns]

I forgot to mention, I also transfer the marine dive bombers that start on board one of the CV’s to Wake on the same turn I pull the fighters off. Then on the next turn they can transfer down to Rabaul. There is too little supply available to leave them at Wake, get them off before too many get damaged by Japanese air strikes. This move means you can have dive bombers operating in the Solomon’s by the end of the first week. In my current PBEM game they managed to sink the small lone ship that was about to unload Japanese troops at either Shortlands or Buin, so the move pays off if they get down there ASAP.

Jim

[Yaab]

kip1213, WiTP:AE without restarts is half the fun.

Here are some thoughts on the Allied CVs early use:

- move CV Lexington 18 hexes away from Wake Island. At 18 hexes, you can transfer the Wildcat detachment from Wake to CV Lexington. Mind you, the other Wildcat detachment from the same unit sits at Pearl Harbor

- move the Wildcat detachment from Pearl Harbor to CV Enterprise.

- move the Dauntless I unit from Pearl Harbor to CV Enterprise.

Congratulations! Now you have a fighter/dive-bomber combo on your CVs. Where do you put it?

Well, I put it on Christmas Island. You can try Suva or Port Moresby, if you feel adventurous.

PS. You can augment your Dauntless I pool by downgrading dive-bomber units sitting in the East Coast base.

[Chris21wen]

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

I think it's gamey to try and intercept the US CV TFs and so does everyone else. IJN thought they'd be at PH, they weren't, there was no plan b for finding them. Do get the squadron off as it will be about 18 mo. before you start getting significant #s of fighter sqds. I tend to think the US needs to get those P-40s off of Luzon and back to Oz as it will be quite a while before they have much fighter defense in the Solomon Sea area.

It is gamey to go look for the Allied CVs but so is intercepting the TF heading for Wake or not sending TF Z to intercept Japanese landings in Malaya. Anything you do in the opening few weeks of the war that impacts on the historical setup is gamey, unfortunately that's the nature of a game like this. It's your war, your planning so go find them or not, make a plan B.

[jmalter]

IIRC, once of the USN CVs has a USMC airgroup destined for transfer to Wake. Make that transfer, but no way I'd try to intercept the KB as it withdraws from the PH attacks. At least one of the USN CV TFs is v. low on fuel, & their airframes & pilots compare poorly to those of the KB. Run away, live to fight another day!

I think it's called the 'fleet in being' strategy - ships that remain afloat are more useful to your future plans than ships at the bottom of the sea. Expending partial USMC airgroups at Wake is acceptable, they can do some attrition work. Losing a USN CV in 12/41 is awful, keeping these ships safe is primary to any future Allied operations.

[ny59giants]

Like Jim stated, option one for Lex and "E" is to head close enough to Wake to get the fighters off before heading north towards Aleutians. Option two is to head due south and try to intervene with Gilbert invasions. As Allied player, I ALWAYS add a Marine fighter group (18 planes) to all my American CVs (except Wasp). Its nice to have 45 fighters on board to increase their survivability through the first 6 months. Each CV TF has a CV, 2 to 4 CAs, and 6 to 8 DDs. Brooklyn CLs are paired up with Porter Class DDs for my SC TF.

[Dili]

Then it is also Gamey take the fighter squadron from Wake.

Politically would be unsustainable.

[msieving1]

ORIGINAL: Dili

Then it is also Gamey take the fighter squadron from Wake.

Politically would be unsustainable.

I don't think there would have been any political problems in removing the VMF squadron from Wake. In real life, though, it would have been pointless. Only four F4Fs survived opening day, and risking a CV to evacuate four fighters wouldn't be a very wise use of resources.

The USN regarded Wake as a liability, more trouble than it was worth. They'd have been happy to evacuate the entire garrison if they could. Unfortunately, the Japanese got there first.

[DeZanic]

Well I think you guys have to accept your destiny and move on. If you loose a carrier or battle its unfair to reload and start again because then you know whats gonna happen. Once you start the campaign you cannot go back in time in my opinion. I lost two carriers half a dozen of battleships and cruisers and endless amounts of destroyers and planes in the first few days so I have to deal with thoose problems, and kudos for the Japanese AI beeing so talented to do so much damage.

SO again.. dont go back in time. Its gamey. Instead plan every move wisely.

[Numdydar]

Most players do not get into '44. Either against the AI or PBEM so truly do not see how 'meh' losing two CVs in '42 or '41 means. Load up the Downfall scenario as the Allies and look at just the CV list and you will understand (and be amazed).

In all honesty, the Allies could just hole up until '43 and it would not change the outcome of the game. Would it be 'fun' not really. Which is why players don't do this even though it is entirely a viable strategy.

Although the game can go past 'August '45, it really should not from a historical perceptive. Actually any WWII game should not go past August '45 simply because of the bomb.

Games that have research should have AVs based on who get the bomb first. As it pretty much means game over for the side that lost the race.

[RogerJNeilson]

Currently in August 1944.

This is what I have in the way of CVs.... didn't bother listing CVEs and CVLs.

I recall losing two... way back, didn't make much difference really.

Roger

[Jim D Burns]

The critical year for CV’s is 1943 when it comes to what losses you may or may not take early game. The CV production ramp up doesn’t start to make a difference until 1944, so if you lose all or most of your starting carriers you have no way to launch significant counter-attacks in 1943.

If Japan has a whole extra year to build up supplies and fort levels at the perimeter bases it’ll make your counter-attacks a whole lot harder. So the difference is starting 1944 with the Gilberts taken and a foothold in the Marshall’s or not. That’s a huge time window if you need to use the first half of 1944 just taking the Marshall’s and getting bases maxed out for land based air.

I’d much prefer having carriers in 1943 so you can start pushing back as soon as possible. So my advice is don’t risk them in 1942 unless it’s a defensive battle (a fight with land based air helping out) for a critical area like Pearl or New Zealand.

Jim

[kip1213]

Thank you for the input guys. I figure now what ever I lose I lose. As for being gamey, I disagree if u start over if u are a new player. In my restarts,(which I am done with, I have hade different results with AI. In one game they attacked a certain base, in another they did not. I'm just going to go with the game and let it go where it go's. Thank you again. Kip

[RogerJNeilson]

I don't think 'gamey' is an appropriate description when you are playing the AI.You are then working against a set of circumstances and choose how 'hard' you make these. restarts can be part of the learning process.

Gamey is an oft expressed view when playing against an evil, cunning, treacherous human.

Roger