ot - Kenneth Macksey bok about nazi invazion to uk in 1940

[wdolson]

Though the German focus on breaking the RAF was concentrating on Fighter Command airfields. Bomber Command had a lot of bases that were out of range of Luftwaffe fighter support and weren't bombed at all. Bomber Command was losing aircraft and crews, but their fields were largely intact and aircraft attrition was less than Fighter Command which lost a lot of planes on the ground as well as in the air.

The limited range of German fighters was a huge drawback to their campaign. If they wanted to strike targets outside of SE England, the bombers had to fly unescorted through heavily defended airspace or they had to go at night which reduced their effectiveness. They had tried using Bf-110s as long range escorts, but losses against the RAF were too heavy to be practical. Against well trained, good quality fighters, Bf-110s were about as vulnerable as the bombers were.

Having safe airfields to drop back to, this gave the British another advantage on the defense. Exhausted squadrons could be cycled out of the fight to rest and refit. Additionally if the invasion came the RAF could attack the beaches from bases out of range of German fighters and out of range of some of their bombers.

Bill

[Apollo11]

Hi all,

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Apollo 11 (Leo) has a really interesting link on this subject - hopefully he will see this and provide.

Sorry for small delay... I have a rather strong cold and I am rather incapacitated in past 10+ days...


Robert is correct - we discussed this before - here are the links:


"OT: Operation Sealion"

tm.asp?m=3087002


"What if Hitler had Conquered Britain?"

tm.asp?m=3478765


Leo "Apollo11"

[Apollo11]

Hi all,

Operation Sealion - summary of an exercise held at the Staff College, Sandhurst in 1974.





The full text is in 'Sealion' by Richard Cox. The scenario
is based on the known plans of each side, plus previously
unpublished Admiralty weather records for September 1940.
Each side (played by British and German officers respectively)
was based in a command room, and the actual moves plotted
on a scale model of SE England constructed at the School
of Infantry. The panel of umpires included Adolf Galland,
Admiral Friedrich Ruge, Air Chief Marshal Sir Christopher
Foxley-Norris, Rear Admiral Edward Gueritz, General Heinz
Trettner and Major General Glyn Gilbert.

The main problem the Germans face is that are a) the
Luftwaffe has not yet won air supremacy; b) the possible
invasion dates are constrained by the weather and tides
(for a high water attack) and c) it has taken until
late September to assemble the necessary shipping.

Glossary
FJ = Fallschirmjaeger (German paratroops)
MTB = Motor Torpedo Boat (German equivalent, E-Boat)
DD = Destroyer
CA = Heavy Cruiser
BB = Battleship
CV = Aircraft Carrier

22nd September - morning
The first wave of a planned 330,000 men hit the beaches
at dawn. Elements of 9 divisions landed between
Folkestone and Rottingdean (near Brighton).
In addition 7th FJ Div landed at Lympne to take the airfield.

The invasion fleet suffered minor losses from MTBs during
the night crossing, but the RN had already lost one
CA and three DDs sunk, with one CA and two DDs damaged,
whilst sinking three German DDs. Within hours of the landings
which overwhelmed the beach defenders, reserve formations
were despatched to Kent. Although there were 25 divisions
in the UK, only 17 were fully equipped, and only three
were based in Kent, however the defence plan relied on
the use of mobile reserves and armoured and mechanised
brigades were committed as soon as the main landings were
identified.

Meanwhile the air battle raged, the Luftwaffe flew 1200
fighter and 800 bomber sorties before 1200 hrs. The RAF
even threw in training planes hastily armed with bombs,
but the Luftwaffe were already having problems with their
short ranged Me 109s despite cramming as many as possible
into the Pas de Calais.

22nd - 23rd September
The Germans had still not captured a major port, although
they started driving for Folkestone. Shipping unloading
on the beaches suffered heavy losses from RAF bombing
raids and then further losses at their ports in France.

The U-Boats, Luftwaffe and few surface ships had lost
contact with the RN, but then a cruiser squadron with
supporting DDs entered the Channel narrows and had to
run the gauntlet of long range coastal guns, E-Boats
and 50 Stukas. Two CAs were sunk and one damaged. However
a diversionary German naval sortie from Norway was
completely destroyed and other sorties by MTBS and DDs
inflicted losses on the shipping milling about in the
Channel. German shipping losses on the first day
amounted to over 25% of their invasion fleet, especially
the barges, which proved desperately unseaworthy.

23rd Sept dawn - 1400 hrs.
The RAF had lost 237 planes out 1048 (167 fighters and
70 bombers), and the navy had suffered enough losses such
that it was keeping its BBs and CVs back, but large
forces of DDs and CAs were massing. Air recon showed a
German buildup in Cherbourg and forces were diverted to
the South West.

The German Navy were despondant about their losses,
especially as the loss of barges was seriously
dislocating domestic industry. The Army and Airforce
commanders were jubilant however, and preperations for
the transfer of the next echelon continued along with
the air transport of 22nd Div, despite Luftwaffe losses
of 165 fighters and 168 bombers. Out of only 732 fighters
and 724 bombers these were heavy losses. Both sides
overestimated losses inflicted by 50%.

The 22nd Div airlanded successfully at Lympne, although
long range artillery fire directed by a stay-behind
commando group interdicted the runways. The first British
counterattacks by 42nd Div supported by an armoured
brigade halted the German 34th Div in its drive on Hastings.
7th Panzer Div was having difficulty with extensive
anti-tank obstacles and assault teams armed with sticky
bombs etc. Meanwhile an Australian Div had retaken
Newhaven (the only German port), however the New Zealand
Div arrived at Folkestone only to be attacked in the
rear by 22nd Airlanding Div. The division fell back on
Dover having lost 35% casualties.

Sep 23rd 1400 - 1900 hrs
Throughout the day the Luftwaffe put up a maximum effort,
with 1500 fighter and 460 bomber sorties, but the RAF
persisted in attacks on shipping and airfields. Much of
this effort was directed for ground support and air
resupply, despite Adm Raeders request for more aircover
over the Channel. The Home Fleet had pulled out of air
range however, leaving the fight in the hands of 57 DDs
and 17 CAs plus MTBs. The Germans could put very little
surface strength against this. Waves of DDs and CAs
entered the Channel, and although two were sunk by U-Boats,
they sank one U-Boat in return and did not stop. The German
flotilla at Le Havre put to sea (3 DD, 14 E-Boats) and at
dusk intercepted the British, but were wiped out, losing
all their DDs and 7 E-Boats.

The Germans now had 10 divisions ashore, but in many
cases these were incomplete and waiting for their
second echelon to arrive that night. The weather
was unsuitable for the barges however, and the decision
to sail was referred up the chain of command.

23rd Sep 1900 - Sep 24th dawn
The Fuhrer Conference held at 1800 broke out into bitter
inter-service rivalry - the Army wanted their second
echelon sent, and the navy protesting that the
weather was unsuitable, and the latest naval defeat
rendered the Channel indefensible without air support.
Goring countered this by saying it could only be done
by stopped the terror bombing of London, which in turn
Hitler vetoed. The fleet was ordered to stand by.

The RAF meanwhile had lost 97 more fighters leaving only
440. The airfields of 11 Group were cratered ruins, and
once more the threat of collapse, which had receded in
early September, was looming. The Luftwaffe had lost
another 71 fighters and 142 bombers. Again both sides
overestimated losses inflicted, even after allowing for
inflated figures.

On the ground the Germans made good progress towards Dover
and towards Canterbury, however they suffered reverses
around Newhaven when the 45th Div and Australians
attacked. At 2150 Hitler decided to launch the second wave,
but only the short crossing from Calais and Dunkirk. By
the time the order reached the ports, the second wave
could not possibly arrive before dawn. The 6th and 8th
divisions at Newhaven, supplied from Le Havre, would not
be reinforced at all.

Sep 24th dawn - Sep 28th
The German fleet set sail, the weather calmed, and U-Boats,
E-Boats and fighters covered them. However at daylight 5th
destroyer flotilla found the barges still 10 miles off
the coast and tore them to shreds. The Luftwaffe in turn
committed all its remaining bombers, and the RAF responded
with 19 squadrons of fighters. The Germans disabled two
CAs and four DDs, but 65% of the barges were sunk. The
faster steamers broke away and headed for Folkestone,
but the port had been so badly damaged that they could
only unload two at a time.

The failure on the crossing meant that the German
situation became desperate. The divisions had sufficient
ammunition for 2 to 7 days more fighting, but without
extra men and equipment could not extend the bridgehead.
Hitler ordered the deployment on reserve units to Poland
and the Germans began preparations for an evacuation as
further British arracks hemmed them in tighter. Fast
steamers and car ferries were assembled for evacuation
via Rye and Folkestone. Of 90,000 troops who landed
on 22nd september, only 15,400 returned to France, the rest
were killed or captured.

Leo "Apollo11"

[Symon]

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve
John I don't know if they were 303 or 30-06. I wasn't there. But the report listed both types of ammo and weapons. Don't tell me. Tell the report. I'm just they guy who linked it. But I tend to believe the report myself.[:D]I don't think your that old. [:D] My feeling for why the USA would have 303 rifles in storage? The US government is the biggest pack rat on the planet. Old stuff is always turning up. In ww1 we made lots of 303 , some for England , some for Canada. But I also recall in my youth talking to two different WW1 vets who told me that They trained on 303 while in the USA. I myself own a ww2 38 s&w revolver that had been US Army , even though the weapon and caliber had never been accepted or used by the US Army (38 s&w , not to be confused with 38 special , sometimes called 38-200 , was strictly used by the British , but somehow this one missed the boat). I'd not be surprised that somewhere there was a warehouse of the weapons left over because the war ended much sooner than expected.[:)]

Hi-ya Stevo. Well, I wasn't there either. As you say I'm not quite that old. You are probably right, and the US does play packrat. I do remember my first year at Bolles we had M1917s in 30-06. But whose worrying about a silly .003 cals anyway? [;)]

[crsutton]

I don't have to read the thread. This has been hashed over many times before. My only point is that if Adolph really thought he had a chance he would have done it. The man was not adverse to a gamble. So, the fact that he did not should put the question to rest.

[AW1Steve]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

I don't have to read the thread. This has been hashed over many times before. My only point is that if Adolph really thought he had a chance he would have done it. The man was not adverse to a gamble. So, the fact that he did not should put the question to rest.

Yes and no. Hitler once said "on land I am a lion , at sea a coward". I've always felt he was queasy with all things naval (no pun intended) especially after the Norway invasion. I'd take him at his word. [:)]

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

ORIGINAL: crsutton

I don't have to read the thread. This has been hashed over many times before. My only point is that if Adolph really thought he had a chance he would have done it. The man was not adverse to a gamble. So, the fact that he did not should put the question to rest.

Yes and no. Hitler once said "on land I am a lion , at sea a coward". I've always felt he was queasy with all things naval (no pun intended) especially after the Norway invasion. I'd take him at his word. [:)]

warspite1

Are you sure you got that quote right? I thought it went something like:

A.Hitler: On land I am a twat, at sea I am even twattier.....[:D]

[AW1Steve]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

ORIGINAL: crsutton

I don't have to read the thread. This has been hashed over many times before. My only point is that if Adolph really thought he had a chance he would have done it. The man was not adverse to a gamble. So, the fact that he did not should put the question to rest.

Yes and no. Hitler once said "on land I am a lion , at sea a coward". I've always felt he was queasy with all things naval (no pun intended) especially after the Norway invasion. I'd take him at his word. [:)]

warspite1

Are you sure you got that quote right? I thought it went something like:

A.Hitler: On land I am a twat, at sea I am even twattier.....[:D]

Obviously it lost something in translation! [:D]

[AW1Steve]

The point I wanted to make is, it doesn't matter what the German armed forces felt they could or could not do, Hitler wasn't happy with the idea, and that was that. Really , after 1940, Hitler was the best ally the allies could have. On a daily basis he managed to "snatch defeat from the jaws of victory" from his generals. Imagine if the general staff did not have to contend with Hitler? Then again , without Hitler Germany probably would have not gone to war for a long, long time (if ever). [8|]

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve




Yes and no. Hitler once said "on land I am a lion , at sea a coward". I've always felt he was queasy with all things naval (no pun intended) especially after the Norway invasion. I'd take him at his word. [:)]

warspite1

Are you sure you got that quote right? I thought it went something like:

A.Hitler: On land I am a twat, at sea I am even twattier.....[:D]

Obviously it lost something in translation! [:D]

warspite1

Ah yes, here it is. I have the full transcript from Hitler's speech to the Reichstag in September 1940.

A.Hitler: On land I am a twat, at sea I am even twattier - and when it comes to my political views I am a 24-carrot %^&*!

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

The point I wanted to make is, it doesn't matter what the German armed forces felt they could or could not do, Hitler wasn't happy with the idea, and that was that. Really , after 1940, Hitler was the best ally the allies could have. On a daily basis he managed to "snatch defeat from the jaws of victory" from his generals. Imagine if the general staff did not have to contend with Hitler? Then again , without Hitler Germany probably would have not gone to war for a long, long time (if ever). [8|]

warspite1

I think that there are plenty of examples where it was the other way around. It would have been interesting if Hitler had gone with the German Generals original plan for Case Yellow.... an attack through Belgium that would have played directly into the Allies Plans to hold the Belgian river lines.

Also there is evidence that Hitler saved the German army from destruction in the winter of 1941/42. If Rommel had obeyed orders then the desert war may have panned out differently.

Hitler was a deranged sociopath (see above [;)]) but the German General staff were not paragons of virtue....[:)]

[Dixie]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: warspite1

However, ammunition and supplies from the US and at home were coming in all the time and by September were appreciably greater in number in all areas.

Ah-HA! I knew it! Clearly we-the good 'ole US of freakin' A won the so-called "Battle of Britain" and defeated a nazi invasion apriori. When ze Germans heard that we were involved they hung it up. A little credit where credit is due please Warspite1.

And rightly so that ze Germans should hang it up when they did. This guy was gonna come back after 'em. And he was kinda pissed. Here he is earnestly walking the flight line dressed inexplicably for a formal gathering.

Standards must be upheld old chap, even in the middle of a warzone, although he is wearing the hat at a jaunty angle to bring an air of whimsy to the ensemble. I note that he's also popped back in time from 1942 with a Spitfire Mk IX. What a guy!

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

Operation Sealion - summary of an exercise held at the Staff College, Sandhurst in 1974.





The full text is in 'Sealion' by Richard Cox. The scenario
is based on the known plans of each side, plus previously
unpublished Admiralty weather records for September 1940.
Each side (played by British and German officers respectively)
was based in a command room, and the actual moves plotted
on a scale model of SE England constructed at the School
of Infantry. The panel of umpires included Adolf Galland,
Admiral Friedrich Ruge, Air Chief Marshal Sir Christopher
Foxley-Norris, Rear Admiral Edward Gueritz, General Heinz
Trettner and Major General Glyn Gilbert.

The main problem the Germans face is that are a) the
Luftwaffe has not yet won air supremacy; b) the possible
invasion dates are constrained by the weather and tides
(for a high water attack) and c) it has taken until
late September to assemble the necessary shipping.

Glossary
FJ = Fallschirmjaeger (German paratroops)
MTB = Motor Torpedo Boat (German equivalent, E-Boat)
DD = Destroyer
CA = Heavy Cruiser
BB = Battleship
CV = Aircraft Carrier

22nd September - morning
The first wave of a planned 330,000 men hit the beaches
at dawn. Elements of 9 divisions landed between
Folkestone and Rottingdean (near Brighton).
In addition 7th FJ Div landed at Lympne to take the airfield.

The invasion fleet suffered minor losses from MTBs during
the night crossing, but the RN had already lost one
CA and three DDs sunk, with one CA and two DDs damaged,
whilst sinking three German DDs. Within hours of the landings
which overwhelmed the beach defenders, reserve formations
were despatched to Kent. Although there were 25 divisions
in the UK, only 17 were fully equipped, and only three
were based in Kent, however the defence plan relied on
the use of mobile reserves and armoured and mechanised
brigades were committed as soon as the main landings were
identified.

Meanwhile the air battle raged, the Luftwaffe flew 1200
fighter and 800 bomber sorties before 1200 hrs. The RAF
even threw in training planes hastily armed with bombs,
but the Luftwaffe were already having problems with their
short ranged Me 109s despite cramming as many as possible
into the Pas de Calais.

22nd - 23rd September
The Germans had still not captured a major port, although
they started driving for Folkestone. Shipping unloading
on the beaches suffered heavy losses from RAF bombing
raids and then further losses at their ports in France.

The U-Boats, Luftwaffe and few surface ships had lost
contact with the RN, but then a cruiser squadron with
supporting DDs entered the Channel narrows and had to
run the gauntlet of long range coastal guns, E-Boats
and 50 Stukas. Two CAs were sunk and one damaged. However
a diversionary German naval sortie from Norway was
completely destroyed and other sorties by MTBS and DDs
inflicted losses on the shipping milling about in the
Channel. German shipping losses on the first day
amounted to over 25% of their invasion fleet, especially
the barges, which proved desperately unseaworthy.

23rd Sept dawn - 1400 hrs.
The RAF had lost 237 planes out 1048 (167 fighters and
70 bombers), and the navy had suffered enough losses such
that it was keeping its BBs and CVs back, but large
forces of DDs and CAs were massing. Air recon showed a
German buildup in Cherbourg and forces were diverted to
the South West.

The German Navy were despondant about their losses,
especially as the loss of barges was seriously
dislocating domestic industry. The Army and Airforce
commanders were jubilant however, and preperations for
the transfer of the next echelon continued along with
the air transport of 22nd Div, despite Luftwaffe losses
of 165 fighters and 168 bombers. Out of only 732 fighters
and 724 bombers these were heavy losses. Both sides
overestimated losses inflicted by 50%.

The 22nd Div airlanded successfully at Lympne, although
long range artillery fire directed by a stay-behind
commando group interdicted the runways. The first British
counterattacks by 42nd Div supported by an armoured
brigade halted the German 34th Div in its drive on Hastings.
7th Panzer Div was having difficulty with extensive
anti-tank obstacles and assault teams armed with sticky
bombs etc. Meanwhile an Australian Div had retaken
Newhaven (the only German port), however the New Zealand
Div arrived at Folkestone only to be attacked in the
rear by 22nd Airlanding Div. The division fell back on
Dover having lost 35% casualties.

Sep 23rd 1400 - 1900 hrs
Throughout the day the Luftwaffe put up a maximum effort,
with 1500 fighter and 460 bomber sorties, but the RAF
persisted in attacks on shipping and airfields. Much of
this effort was directed for ground support and air
resupply, despite Adm Raeders request for more aircover
over the Channel. The Home Fleet had pulled out of air
range however, leaving the fight in the hands of 57 DDs
and 17 CAs plus MTBs. The Germans could put very little
surface strength against this. Waves of DDs and CAs
entered the Channel, and although two were sunk by U-Boats,
they sank one U-Boat in return and did not stop. The German
flotilla at Le Havre put to sea (3 DD, 14 E-Boats) and at
dusk intercepted the British, but were wiped out, losing
all their DDs and 7 E-Boats.

The Germans now had 10 divisions ashore, but in many
cases these were incomplete and waiting for their
second echelon to arrive that night. The weather
was unsuitable for the barges however, and the decision
to sail was referred up the chain of command.

23rd Sep 1900 - Sep 24th dawn
The Fuhrer Conference held at 1800 broke out into bitter
inter-service rivalry - the Army wanted their second
echelon sent, and the navy protesting that the
weather was unsuitable, and the latest naval defeat
rendered the Channel indefensible without air support.
Goring countered this by saying it could only be done
by stopped the terror bombing of London, which in turn
Hitler vetoed. The fleet was ordered to stand by.

The RAF meanwhile had lost 97 more fighters leaving only
440. The airfields of 11 Group were cratered ruins, and
once more the threat of collapse, which had receded in
early September, was looming. The Luftwaffe had lost
another 71 fighters and 142 bombers. Again both sides
overestimated losses inflicted, even after allowing for
inflated figures.

On the ground the Germans made good progress towards Dover
and towards Canterbury, however they suffered reverses
around Newhaven when the 45th Div and Australians
attacked. At 2150 Hitler decided to launch the second wave,
but only the short crossing from Calais and Dunkirk. By
the time the order reached the ports, the second wave
could not possibly arrive before dawn. The 6th and 8th
divisions at Newhaven, supplied from Le Havre, would not
be reinforced at all.

Sep 24th dawn - Sep 28th
The German fleet set sail, the weather calmed, and U-Boats,
E-Boats and fighters covered them. However at daylight 5th
destroyer flotilla found the barges still 10 miles off
the coast and tore them to shreds. The Luftwaffe in turn
committed all its remaining bombers, and the RAF responded
with 19 squadrons of fighters. The Germans disabled two
CAs and four DDs, but 65% of the barges were sunk. The
faster steamers broke away and headed for Folkestone,
but the port had been so badly damaged that they could
only unload two at a time.

The failure on the crossing meant that the German
situation became desperate. The divisions had sufficient
ammunition for 2 to 7 days more fighting, but without
extra men and equipment could not extend the bridgehead.
Hitler ordered the deployment on reserve units to Poland
and the Germans began preparations for an evacuation as
further British arracks hemmed them in tighter. Fast
steamers and car ferries were assembled for evacuation
via Rye and Folkestone. Of 90,000 troops who landed
on 22nd september, only 15,400 returned to France, the rest
were killed or captured.

Leo "Apollo11"

Apollo11,

That was very enlightening-thank you! [&o]

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

ORIGINAL: warspite1


warspite1

Are you sure you got that quote right? I thought it went something like:

A.Hitler: On land I am a twat, at sea I am even twattier.....[:D]

Obviously it lost something in translation! [:D]

warspite1

Ah yes, here it is. I have the full transcript from Hitler's speech to the Reichstag in September 1940.

A.Hitler: On land I am a twat, at sea I am even twattier - and when it comes to my political views I am a 24-carrot %^&*!

[:D] [:D] [:D]
Thank you, Warspite1. [&o]

That truly made my day a lot brighter. Thank you. [:)]

[wdolson]

Germany had a long military tradition on land, but they really didn't have much of a navy until just before WW I and the navy languished again until the late 1930s. Germany was a continental power.

The UK on the other hand had a naval tradition going back centuries. In some ways you can compensate for lack of institutional knowledge with technology, but there comes a point where the long history pays off. There are not many naval encounters between Germany and the RN to go by (aside from u-boat encounters), however the British tended to use better tactics which usually led to better results, and they had more resources to draw upon.

The Sandhurst post from Apollo11 was interesting. I think in the real world the RN may have fared even better than they did in the exercise. On the other hand it is possible the Germans may have whittled the RAF down a little further before the invasion. But lose the barges and the fleet of small freighters needed to support the invasion and the whole thing is lost. Essentially the same result in the end.

Bill

[Jorge_Stanbury]

Important to mention Sandhurst is an army military academy; and they wanted to play a wargame.

The starting proposition is that somehow the Germans were able to land elements of nine, yes "9" [X(] divisions.. 90,000 men on Sep 22

This can be easily challenged in real life, but not if you are planning to play a wargame. If the RN sinks the invasion fleet on turn #1, then game over, everybody, including some distinguished visitors, have to go home or to the pub. This unrealistic landing is the key assumption made to enable a wargame. This of course not to different than some WITPAE game rules like the amphibious bonus.

But then, even under that very optimistic starting point, Germany is defeated in less than one week

[wdolson]

Of course military organizations wargame for different reasons than we do, but your point is valid. To get elements of 9 divisions ashore to begin with is approaching a miracle, but if the Germans can't do that it's a pretty short exercise.

Bill

[moonraker65]

With Churchill in power I very much doubt it could have succeeded. Not to mention that we were expecting it straight after Dunkirk with preparations already underway in June almost as soon as what was left of the BEF was brought back to blighty.

[Apollo11]

Hi all,

We all know that "Operation Sea Lion" was "pipe dream"... it was impossible to succeed... but it brought legacy that would heavily influence the Germans 4 years later... D-Day June 6 1944...


What I mean is that Germans tactical / strategic thought regarding possible Allied invasion was heavily influenced with their own "Operation Sea Lion"!


In other words German general plan (which was not at all that bad) was to fortify important harbors (i.e. make them "fortresses" and mine the harbor equipment) and try to defend the rest of open area with what they got plus reinforcements in the rear areas (this was done so much better after Rommel arrived and started to improve everything).

They simply never thought of artificial harbors (i.e. Mullberies) which were key to Allied victory in 1944 (because even in 1944 withheavy Allied supremacy in land / air / sea it took weeks to capture important harbors on French cost and more weeks to render them operational after deliberate destruction by Germans)!



Leo "Apollo11"

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

Important to mention Sandhurst is an army military academy; and they wanted to play a wargame.

Warspite1

True, but they had the navy represented - there were at least a couple of admirals involved. I agree with your view though - it would be a pretty pointless exercise if they didn't suspend belief and allow some Germans to land [:D]