Opening 5 turns as allied in campaign

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: kip1213

Thank you for the input guys. I figure now what ever I lose I lose. As for being gamey, I disagree if u start over if u are a new player. In my restarts,(which I am done with, I have hade different results with AI. In one game they attacked a certain base, in another they did not. I'm just going to go with the game and let it go where it go's. Thank you again. Kip

The AI follows a set of scripts that vary from game to game. The set is chosen at game start.

Sometimes when playing the AI its worth starting over just to get a different set of scripts.

[btd64]

First 4 or 5 days.....Ha....more like the first 4 or 5 months. minimum....Heading the CV's south is fine. As long as your opponent doesn't have a flock of subs in the way.[:@] Right JuanG.[:@] Ah, but it is just a game. Fun to win and lose....GP

[DeZanic]

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

Most players do not get into '44. Either against the AI or PBEM so truly do not see how 'meh' losing two CVs in '42 or '41 means. Load up the Downfall scenario as the Allies and look at just the CV list and you will understand (and be amazed).

In all honesty, the Allies could just hole up until '43 and it would not change the outcome of the game. Would it be 'fun' not really. Which is why players don't do this even though it is entirely a viable strategy.

Although the game can go past 'August '45, it really should not from a historical perceptive. Actually any WWII game should not go past August '45 simply because of the bomb.

Games that have research should have AVs based on who get the bomb first. As it pretty much means game over for the side that lost the race.

I think that Ive read somewhere that in 1944 the Pentagon calculated that Japan could be defeated by 1948. However one thing was certain from the beginning of the war, the Allied had no intentions of ever accepting anything but an unconditional surrender from the Axis as we know. So for the Axis to win WWII they would have been forced to occupy all Allied territories I guess.

Well I wanted to post links and references but this site has some stupid redicilous strange rules regarding it.

[AW1Steve]

It's not worth picking up the planes at Wake. They are a Det. of a squadron at PH. When gone , they simply have the same effect as if you brought them to PH and re-joined their squadron. No net gain. And you are risking one or more of your precious CV's. Yet those fighters might savage a couple of unescorted Japanese bombers.

You know where the KB is on Dec 8. Your goal should be to be as far from it as you can. Sending your CV's against the KB , or even just part of it , is like sending a little boy in boxing gloves up against the heavy weight champion of the world. It can't end well. [8|] The value of your carriers is in their FUTURE value. The most important part of a CV is it's pilots and their aircraft. Your pilots are rookies. Give them time to grow into the world beaters they can become. And your planes are for the most part, well junk. Buffalo's and Devastators are great trainers. Combat planes? Not so much.

In essence , the most effective thing you can do with almost all of your ships is RUN AWAY! At very least pull them back so they can get full air groups , cherry-picked leaders , and be consolidated into a more useful formation.

One fact as the allied player you MUST come to grips with is you are all about the future. The ships and pilots you save now , will spearhead your return. Today , unfortunately belongs to the Japanese. The more you save , preserve , train and regroup , the sooner you will be able to hit back. Good luck! I'll wish you good hunting in 6 to 9 months (of game play)! [:D]

[kip1213]

Going to play the game conservative(not use to this)and rather than risk my carriers I am going to move them south for now. Not starting this game over no more!

[Jim D Burns]

ORIGINAL: kip1213

Going to play the game conservative(not use to this)and rather than risk my carriers I am going to move them south for now. Not starting this game over no more!

Make sure you turn off HI production in Australia and New Zealand or it'll drain your fuel reserves dry and your CV's will be stuck for months. Also turn off industry repairs in China, Burma, Malaya and DEI, you can't afford the supply loss for industry repairs in those areas.

Jim

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: Numdydar


... Although the game can go past 'August '45, it really should not from a historical perceptive.

Why? Doing so hurts the commercial prospects of a game. Plus in this case, the oft maligned Victory Conditions already factor in this condition. The VC are objective, none of this chest pumping "I can disregard VP and the VC because I'll know when I have won" ... often uttered by people who have performed worse than the historical record.

... Actually any WWII game should not go past August '45 simply because of the bomb.

Games that have research should have AVs based on who get the bomb first. As it pretty much means game over for the side that lost the race.

Which means that in the PTO only the Allies could win. Again not something which would aid the commercial prospects of a game. Probably why in AE there is no capability to research the atomic bomb.

Alfred

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: Dili

Then it is also Gamey take the fighter squadron from Wake.

Politically would be unsustainable.

No more gamey than non-historical first turns that allow the Japanese to strike any target they please.

With our full knowledge of the starting positions of every defending unit exploiting that knowledge either offensively as the Japanese or defensively as the Allies is gamey.

Lets face it guys, gamey is what the GAME is all about.

It's just that we set individual limits on the extent of gameiness that is acceptable to us.

[mussey]

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

ORIGINAL: kip1213

Going to play the game conservative(not use to this)and rather than risk my carriers I am going to move them south for now. Not starting this game over no more!

Make sure you turn off HI production in Australia and New Zealand or it'll drain your fuel reserves dry and your CV's will be stuck for months. Also turn off industry repairs in China, Burma, Malaya and DEI, you can't afford the supply loss for industry repairs in those areas.

Jim

Oh my, no wonder why my Oz has been going bone dry. I never thought of tinkering with the Factory/HI settings. I'm in late '42 and I'm barely getting enough fuel there. For several months in mid '42 I had to shut down my Transport runs to Port Moresby.

[Jim D Burns]

In addition to tweaking the bases on turn one, I also recommend allied players do the following on turn one:

Turn off replacements for all land and air units. Allied replacement pools are critically poor (study your pools carefully, learn about what you can and can’t replace some combat units can never be rebuilt, you need that knowledge before you decide to commit them) and if you fail to do this on turn one you will cripple your ability to upgrade stuff later. Also turn off upgrades for all land units. You only want to upgrade stuff you manually decide needs to upgrade one unit at a time.

Turn on stockpiling for all equipment items so nothing accidently gets sucked out of your equipment pools by reinforcing units that arrive with their replacements setting turned on. You will need to micro manage stockpiling turning it on and off for a turn to coordinate with units equipment items for units you decide you want to upgrade.

Remember to upgrade an equipment item you need a stockpile large enough to upgrade the entire stack. So if you have 300 squads of 41 equipment and want to upgrade them you need to first stockpile 300 42 squads in you replacement pool. The engine won’t use the 300 squads from your pool, but unless you have them available in the pool you will never get to upgrade the 41 stack. So don’t let your units pull stuff out of your replacement pools until after all the upgrades you want have completed first.

Things like engineers, support and air support don’t need to be stockpiled, but almost everything else the allies have should be stockpiled from day one.

Finally, NEVER allow any Chinese infantry unit to upgrade the 75 mm intrinsic guns to 105 mm guns. Save the few that get produced to upgrade the dedicated artillery units instead. There will never be enough produced to allow these upgrades to work for you in China if you allow infantry units to upgrade their guns. What will happen is eventually as losses accumulate your infantry units will simply have no intrinsic artillery as you’re not allowed to go back.

Jim

[HansBolter]

Many players advocate shutting down HI in OZ.

I am not one. In spite of all the arguments to the contrary, it is possible to ship sufficient fuel there if one makes it a priority.

Shutting down the HI only adds a burden of having to ship more supplies to Oz and to the outlying locales that can be supplied by OZ if the HI is turned on.

There are always trade offs for every choice.

[Jim D Burns]

You can always turn it back on once you have a decent convoy system in place. At game start you will drain OZ dry if you leave it on, and supply won't be an issue till much later when a lot more stuff arrives to begin draining supply stocks.

Jim

[btd64]

Jim D Burns, Words of wisdom....GP

[rustysi]

Finally, NEVER allow any Chinese infantry unit to upgrade the 75 mm intrinsic guns to 105 mm guns.

Jim, I get what you're saying here, but wouldn't that mean that you wouldn't be able to upgrade any devices then? Don't other Chinese devices upgrade? How can you do them and not the 75's?

[Jim D Burns]

ORIGINAL: rustysi

Finally, NEVER allow any Chinese infantry unit to upgrade the 75 mm intrinsic guns to 105 mm guns.

Jim, I get what you're saying here, but wouldn't that mean that you wouldn't be able to upgrade any devices then? Don't other Chinese devices upgrade? How can you do them and not the 75's?

Leave stockpiling on for the 105's and they won't upgrade while the rest will. Upgrading only occurs for stuff that is not flagged to stockpile. In China the only thing you'll probably want to upgrade are the squads. All the heavy equipment has very tiny production numbers, so leave most of it in stockpile mode. Eventually Mortars and AT guns can be upgraded in a few infantry units late war, but not many. It takes over 2 years of production to upgrade the dedicated artillery units, so that's why I say never allow the infantry to upgrade artillery. Any battle losses will easily eat up most of the production so save the guns for the dedicated artillery unless you've managed to build up a very large stock somehow.

I should note I'm basing this advice based on the production numbers in DBB. I'm not sure if it's different than stock as I no longer have stock databases installed to compare. Here's the DBB numbers:



Jim

[rustysi]

I was kinda thinking along those lines but wasn't sure. Good info and advise. Thanks.

[Yaab]

That is why I always monitor gun losses in the Chinese units. Lose too many guns and your units are defanged.

[mussey]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Many players advocate shutting down HI in OZ.

I am not one. In spite of all the arguments to the contrary, it is possible to ship sufficient fuel there if one makes it a priority.

Shutting down the HI only adds a burden of having to ship more supplies to Oz and to the outlying locales that can be supplied by OZ if the HI is turned on.

There are always trade offs for every choice.

+1. Though I ran out earlier, I solved it once I dedicated myself to the undertaking.

Since I play vs AI, my roleplaying schema kicks in, goes something like this: Australia & NZ as ANZAC members are relying on US aide not only to thwart this dire emergency but also to keep the war going and not to conclude a separate peace. Also, don't want the government of PM Curtin to collapse due to lack of US commitment, nor the closing down of Australian industry from lack of fuel. I do the same w/ NZ.

Also, I try to run the various convoys to & fro for resources in the Pacific (even though they're not really needed).

I try to follow some degree of history, and to provide balance vs the AI.