Smoke from shelling/tank fire.

[MaxDamage]

The first thing on napoleonic wars drawings is smoke obscuring everything.

It would lovely to have this in game because you know that could actually be a pretty big deal in large intensity scenarios where you have dozens of tanks firing and artillery landing in the same hex.

Things that should produce smoke:

-tank fire;
-howitzer fire;
- HE tank/mortar/artillery shots landing;
-vehicle explosions;
-burning vehicles;

Such a lingering smoke over the hex should work as follows:
1)reduce visibility of the hex and the hexes behind it. Works like additional temporary cover on the hex. It also probably should blind the units in the hex slightly.
2)reduce the effectiveness of optical, TV and laser guided weapons accordingly(i think cover does that already?). Obscure thermal sight slightly much like the rain does(it does?).
3)have no effect on radar weapons (apache longbow, khrisantema tank destroyer, all sorts of PGR weapons).

Thank you for hearing me out.

[CapnDarwin]

Wrecks already have an impact on lines of fire and sight (and in 2.1 will impact wire guided weapons fire more). Tank fire, though obscuring for a short time, does not have enough volume over the area and time to impact the combat model. One area that does need some work in 2.1 will be the obscuring effects of falling artillery in an area (HE). That does cause a lot of smoke and particle cloud during the barrage and would hamper all visual systems.

[IronMikeGolf]

Smoke from combustion doesn't hamper thermal weapon sights. The fires themselves do. Smoke from HC or WP rounds also does not hamper thermals. Dust immediately following an HE arty or mortar round does, but only for a few seconds.

[MaxDamage]

ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin

Wrecks already have an impact on lines of fire and sight (and in 2.1 will impact wire guided weapons fire more). Tank fire, though obscuring for a short time, does not have enough volume over the area and time to impact the combat model. One area that does need some work in 2.1 will be the obscuring effects of falling artillery in an area (HE). That does cause a lot of smoke and particle cloud during the barrage and would hamper all visual systems.

Also, MLRS strikes and air strikes too ofc. Also, the buildings and the trees may burn however i m not sure it is important to model.

[Tazak]

Smoke from thermobaric weapons I suspect may hinder TI for a limited time

[IronMikeGolf]

Good point, Tazak. I've never watched one through thermals. Intuitively, I am thinking seconds, not minutes.

Smoke works to obscure two ways: absorbing light and scattering light. Your white smokes (HC, WP, etc) scatter, but don't scatter much in the far infrared. They affect visible and near infrared (light amplifiers, etc). Sooty smokes, like you get from things burning, do block everything. You need density and depth to block. They block visible and near IR better than far IR, but not by much.

Smoke from combustion cools pretty quickly. The effect of hot smoke coming off a fire is to add a little to the glare of the fire when viewed in a thermal sight. It's like this when looking at a fire through a sight with clear or day mode and a thermal mode: in day mode, you see the glare of the core of the fire and flames licking upwards. When you switch to thermal mode, you still see the core and the flames, but there is additional bright hot waves and tendrils from the smoke (the hot soot and ash). That fades to upward drifting sparkles. The band of hot soot is measured in feet.

I've shot Dragons at night with a range fire blazing 400-600 meters away. We were shooting service rounds and had a missile impact short and detonate. The targets were at 800-1000 meters. I could see both the fire and the target in the sight. Not a problem from either the heat or smoke. Now, dragging the missile wire through the fire was another matter...

[IronMikeGolf]

From my experience, in Europe, the biggest bugaboo for thermals is morning and evening fog.

[CapnDarwin]

Yep, we model the thermal inversion impact and the weather effects on sensors.

[IronMikeGolf]

Well, thermal inversion and fog are different. And you don't really get thermal inversion when a vehicle has been either moving or shooting and you don't have that with dismounted troops.

For now, I am treating the morning/evening thermal inversions in the game as ground fog the covers all elevations.

[MaxDamage]

These are all good ideas. Smoke against eyesight/night vision-light amplification and building/wreck/tree fires against the thermal.

Do the mortar/arti smoke shells obscure night vision light amplification now?

[IronMikeGolf]

Yes, everything but thermals. Lay smoke on NATO and see how WP fires degrade. You will wish for more smoke.