Greyjoy(J) vs. Obvert(A) - The air war in China- DBB, SLs, PDU OFF

[MrKane]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Also the radars didn't work so well today, probably due to the damaged suffered yesterday... that may answer to the question why we couldn't get on the first wave of bombers in time...

Erik did everything right. This whole offensive air operation, despite being expensive for the allies, have succeded... i now have a Ceylon completely undefended[:-]

You probably already know this, but just in case you don't. For radar operators units you need leaders with very, very high inspiration skill to keep unit in good shape (morale, fatigue, disruption). They fail to work often due low morale or high disruption.

I would suggest also to move all flak and engineers on Ceylon to Tri in attempt fix and hold AF before evacuation. You can use KB either but it is risky and will cost you a lot of KB's fighters. If his flattops are nearby I would advice against use KB as cover, he can easily reduce you cap by sweeps and next strike with his carriers.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: MrKane

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Also the radars didn't work so well today, probably due to the damaged suffered yesterday... that may answer to the question why we couldn't get on the first wave of bombers in time...

Erik did everything right. This whole offensive air operation, despite being expensive for the allies, have succeded... i now have a Ceylon completely undefended[:-]

You probably already know this, but just in case you don't. For radar operators units you need leaders with very, very high inspiration skill to keep unit in good shape (morale, fatigue, disruption). They fail to work often due low morale or high disruption.

I would suggest also to move all flak and engineers on Ceylon to Tri in attempt fix and hold AF before evacuation. You can use KB either but it is risky and will cost you a lot of KB's fighters. If his flattops are nearby I would advice against use KB as cover, he can easily reduce you cap by sweeps and next strike with his carriers.

Thanks Tom! I 've already given orders to mass everything i have at Ceylon to Trico, so to maximise the effects and to fix the fields...but i have very little hopes that it will be doable.
I won't CAP bases with my KB, that's for sure. I will try to keep the KB in a posistion that will enable it to be a guard against everything that decides to move down from the west coast of India, and possibly clearling the way for the retreating transports...
We'll see.

[GreyJoy]

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[GreyJoy]

Some shots from the second air battle of Tricomale...

[GreyJoy]

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[GreyJoy]

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[GreyJoy]

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[MrKane]

Hey Nicola, can you give some info how A6M5c is doing. Is worth of production and resources ?

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: MrKane

Hey Nicola, can you give some info how A6M5c is doing. Is worth of production and resources ?

Sure!

It's doing wonders. Much much better than the A6M5. The lower speed (339 vs 354) doesn't seem to effect its performances, while the superior armament (3 heavy MGs instead of the 2 light MGs) and the armour really makes it a great plane. I now kick myself not to have used it against QBall...i stopped the zero research at the a6m5 in that game.

Mind you: i only had one single 30 planes group operating with it, but it has done really better than the all the groups equipped with the A6M5 (the b model has been used only on CVs so far).

Possibly it's even better than the A6M8 considering that it has one more heavy MG in CL position.

Defenetly a Must produce for me

[koniu]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

ORIGINAL: MrKane

Hey Nicola, can you give some info how A6M5c is doing. Is worth of production and resources ?

Sure!

It's doing wonders. Much much better than the A6M5. The lower speed (339 vs 354) doesn't seem to effect its performances, while the superior armament (3 heavy MGs instead of the 2 light MGs) and the armour really makes it a great plane. I now kick myself not to have used it against QBall...i stopped the zero research at the a6m5 in that game.

Mind you: i only had one single 30 planes group operating with it, but it has done really better than the all the groups equipped with the A6M5 (the b model has been used only on CVs so far).

Possibly it's even better than the A6M8 considering that it has one more heavy MG in CL position.

Defenetly a Must produce for me

I have the same experience with M5c as GreyJoy.
5c is i major upgrade from M5/M5b, His survivability in battle is much better. Especially as defensive fighter in CV battle when he can have dive bonus against approaching bombers and escorts as they usually approach at ~15k. It is good enough to fight decent against F6F-3. When M5c hit something You can be sure that target is destroyed, while M5/b usually it is 50/50 destroyed/damage.

I use only once M5c in CV battle. And they do wonders defending sky above KB. I had ~250 fighters on CAP. ~60 was M5c and i believe half of destroyed enemy planes was prey of c version. Best plane You can have on CV before A7M2

[MrKane]

ORIGINAL: koniu

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

ORIGINAL: MrKane

Hey Nicola, can you give some info how A6M5c is doing. Is worth of production and resources ?

Sure!

It's doing wonders. Much much better than the A6M5. The lower speed (339 vs 354) doesn't seem to effect its performances, while the superior armament (3 heavy MGs instead of the 2 light MGs) and the armour really makes it a great plane. I now kick myself not to have used it against QBall...i stopped the zero research at the a6m5 in that game.

Mind you: i only had one single 30 planes group operating with it, but it has done really better than the all the groups equipped with the A6M5 (the b model has been used only on CVs so far).

Possibly it's even better than the A6M8 considering that it has one more heavy MG in CL position.

Defenetly a Must produce for me

I have the same experience with M5c as GreyJoy.
5c is i major upgrade from M5/M5b, His survivability in battle is much better. Especially as defensive fighter when he can have dive bonus. It is still good enught to figth decent against F6F-3. When M5c hit something You can be sure that target is destroyed, while M5/b usually it is 50/50 destroyed/damage.

I use only once M5c in CV battle. And they do wonders defending sky above KB. I had ~250 fighters on CAP. ~60 was M5c and i believe half of destroyed enemy planes was prey of c version. Best plane You can have on CV before A7M2

Thanks guys, this exactly info I like to hear. I am doing 5 x 30 R&D on this a/c right now.

[crsutton]

With the changes in the air combat system it is nice to see how effective some to my Allied aircraft can be. In stock the P39 and Hurricane were all but useless but in DaBabes they are quite useful. Still no match for the Tojo but pretty effective vs any other Japanese fighter in 1942. My top ace with 12 kills is flying a Hurricane IIB and my top killing squadron consists of P39s with over 100 kills for the squadron by 10/42. Even a couple of my Chinese pilots are double aces. (Of course, they are running our of planes to fly). Certainly makes the air war seem a lot more realistic.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

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Yes, it will be interesting to see if it is all worth is as Viberpol has pretty much taken the same course in our game. Looks like he will take China out but he is mired in India and if not careful could lose too much there. Plus, the India gambit requires a big commitment from the Japanese fleet giving the Allies a lot of room in the South and Central Pacific. Having to pull KB out of the Pacific to support your evacuation is a good thing for Obvert as he will know where KB is and at this stage that can be a big bonus for the Allies.

[GreyJoy]

Mar 24, 1943

The allies come back for Trico. For the 3rd day in a row. Another massive sweep+LRCAP+Escorted bombers...no opposition this time. I couldn't do anything. The base is plastered by thousands of planes.
A big xAP part of the operation rescue is sunk by a sub exiting from the Malacca strait...[:(]

Can't really do much now. Madras is well defended but that's all. Ceylon is lost. Undefendable.

The allies are land bombing Madras... probably to see if i'm evacuating... not yet!

[GreyJoy]

Mar 25, 1943

The allies bomb Colombo, Dambulla and Tricomalee with everything they have, TBF and SDBs included. Now all my indian air force is located at Madras, waiting for the rescue mission... Ships are gathering into the meeting point West of Port Blair. In a week or so we'll get to Madras... May God be with us...

The 53rd ID got into Umboi Island without problems. Now the base is really a fortress.

Horn Island and Mereuake got reinforced this turn. Horn Island has 50,000 supplies and some 700 AVs, behind 6 forts... not bad for an atoll [8D]
Mereuake is fortified too. That won't be an easy way to take for the allies.

Christmas I.O. got a couple of SNLF units as reinforcements. These are part of the general DEI reinforcing plan for 1943

The first attack on Kunming went great: 2-1 in my favour and forts reduced to 2. We will get pretty fast there [8D]. 4 Divisions are moving to the Sian sector...

I am finally able to release the 16th ID from China. Will go to the Mariannas

[veji1]

Biting my nails, this indian adventure is becoming more and more tense ! I had really forgotten how pdu off can affect the game : the situation you are experiencing in Ceylon would just be impossible in a PDU on game, he woul have lost 200 planes a couple of times against all your Tojos and Georges and with lack of quality airframes and shattered morale would have had to back off.

[Wuffer]

I think it was Amoral, who formulates a wise strategem: Whenever he asked himself for the right time to retreat, he found out that he should done it weeks before.
It's only a glacis, an outpost of your festung, don't throw good money after bad.
It's a long, loong war, GJ, and in the end the side with fewer mistakes wins - it's simple impossible to do everything right, don't be to harsh to yourself.
Nearly allways the endgame is decided by supply imho...

fantastic AAR, btw!

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: Wuffer

I think it was Amoral, who formulates a wise strategem: Whenever he asked himself for the right time to retreat, he found out that he should done it weeks before.
It's only a glacis, an outpost of your festung, don't throw good money after bad.
It's a long, loong war, GJ, and in the end the side with fewer mistakes wins - it's simple impossible to do everything right, don't be to harsh to yourself.
Nearly allways the endgame is decided by supply imho...

fantastic AAR, btw!

[:D] So true. I should have evacuated weeks before!!!...

However I won't let 200,000 men die there... will try to save as many as possible!


March 26, 1943

The allies attack Patna with every crappy plane they have in their inventory!!! Skies of Patna are empty anyway, so only some flak fires (shooting down 9 enemies), but they are effective anyway: the base is damaged and the time of my Assam dominions is really running up.
Ceylon is being bombed daily now, while enemy's minesweeper clear mines at Colombo...BBs are spotted moving down the coast of India... maybe I can bag some of them with the KB...who knows [:)]

My ships are now 4 days far from Madras... finger crossed.

The resupply operation at Horn Island goes pretty well.

Enemy SAGs spotted at Shortland.

Perth is bombed.

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TF 236 encounters mine field at Colombo (29,48) - Coastal Guns Fire Back!

17 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
AMc Randas, Shell hits 6, on fire
AMc Cuttack, Shell hits 4

Japanese ground losses:
16 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

3rd Provisional Base Force firing at AMc Randas
AMc Randas firing at 3rd Provisional Base Force
3rd Provisional Base Force firing at AMc Cuttack
AMc Cuttack firing at 3rd Provisional Base Force
3rd Provisional Base Force firing at AMc Randas
AMc Randas firing at 3rd Provisional Base Force
AMc Cuttack firing at 3rd Provisional Base Force
18 mines cleared

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Morning Air attack on Patna , at 54,30

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 39 NM, estimated altitude 29,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Allied aircraft
P-66 Vanguard x 4
Beaufighter VIc x 8
Hurricane IIc Trop x 16
Hurricane IId Trop x 4
Mohawk IV x 10

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
16 x Hurricane IIc Trop sweeping at 25000 feet



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Morning Air attack on Patna , at 54,30

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 45 NM, estimated altitude 29,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Allied aircraft
Beaufighter VIc x 7
Hurricane IIc Trop x 16
Mohawk IV x 10

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
16 x Hurricane IIc Trop sweeping at 25000 feet


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Morning Air attack on Patna , at 54,30

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 41 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Allied aircraft
A-29A Hudson x 12
I-15-III x 12[:D]
P-66 Vanguard x 4
Beaufighter VIf x 7
Beaufighter VIc x 16
Mohawk IV x 10
Wellington Ic x 11
B-24D Liberator x 3

Allied aircraft losses
A-29A Hudson: 6 damaged
A-29A Hudson: 1 destroyed by flak
Wellington Ic: 6 damaged
Wellington Ic: 1 destroyed by flak
B-24D Liberator: 3 damaged

Airbase hits 2
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 16


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Morning Air attack on Patna , at 54,30

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 44 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes

Allied aircraft
P-66 Vanguard x 4
Beaufighter VIc x 15
Hudson IIIa x 12
Hurricane IIb Trop x 10
Hurricane IId Trop x 6
Liberator II x 3
Bolingbroke IV x 12 [X(][:D]
A-29 Hudson x 14
B-24D Liberator x 3

Allied aircraft losses
Hudson IIIa: 3 damaged
Liberator II: 1 destroyed by flak
Bolingbroke IV: 2 damaged
Bolingbroke IV: 1 destroyed by flak
A-29 Hudson: 4 damaged
B-24D Liberator: 1 damaged

Airbase hits 8
Airbase supply hits 4
Runway hits 29
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Morning Air attack on Patna , at 54,30

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 25 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Allied aircraft
Beaufighter VIf x 7
Beaufighter VIc x 15
Hurricane IIb Trop x 10
Hurricane IId Trop x 4
Liberator II x 13
Mohawk IV x 10
B-24D Liberator x 8
B-24D1 Liberator x 3

Allied aircraft losses
Liberator II: 7 damaged
B-24D Liberator: 3 damaged
B-24D1 Liberator: 1 damaged
B-24D1 Liberator: 1 destroyed by flak

Airbase hits 8
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 10






At Kunming we got only a 1-2...I think because our supplies are now very low... but we got a fort drop, so it's not the time to stop now!


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Ground combat at Kunming (69,48)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 15246 troops, 318 guns, 922 vehicles, Assault Value = 577

Defending force 31965 troops, 207 guns, 22 vehicles, Assault Value = 555

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 1

Japanese adjusted assault: 510

Allied adjusted defense: 565

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 1)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), disruption(-), experience(-)
supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
482 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 27 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 23 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled

Allied ground losses:
504 casualties reported
Squads: 11 destroyed, 49 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 3 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 9 (3 destroyed, 6 disabled)

Assaulting units:
2nd Tank Division
Guards Tank Division
23rd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
13th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
20th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
8th Medium Field Artillery Regiment

Defending units:
64th Chinese Corps
73rd Chinese Corps
32nd Chinese Corps
56th Chinese Corps
49th Chinese Corps
80th Chinese Corps
33rd Base Group
11th Group Army
10th Construction Regiment
9th Group Army
88th Chinese Division
102nd RAF Base Force
5th Group Army
56th AT Gun Regiment
16th Chinese Base Force

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: veji1

Biting my nails, this indian adventure is becoming more and more tense ! I had really forgotten how pdu off can affect the game : the situation you are experiencing in Ceylon would just be impossible in a PDU on game, he woul have lost 200 planes a couple of times against all your Tojos and Georges and with lack of quality airframes and shattered morale would have had to back off.

Oh yeah, with every IJAAF sentai upgraded to the Ki-44c (waiting to get the KI-84a) and every IJNAAF group on N1K and J2M3, things would have been VERY different... but that's why I'm really loving this PDU OFF game... it's much more challenging!

[GreyJoy]

Supplies are still raising +8,000 every day on avg. Very good. Soon they'll fall down as the RnD factories of the A6M8 will be switched to something else

RnD: A6M8 at 6/43
KI-43 IV at 44/8...painfull slow

Will have now to devote some factories to RnD the KI-46 III KAI night fighters... I completely forgot about it in my plannings...[:-] I have quite a lot of groups upgrading to it!

[:-]
[:-][:-]


Moving now Kates and Betties to Rabaul, along with a brand new group of 33 A6M5c. Need to fortify that area now that he's basing his warships at Shortland. Mines are spread all over my bases as much as I can.

The Endo Group (my first dedicated NF group with 2 planes [:D] ) is now based at Madras. Will be helped by some Nicks in its NF role as soon as the ships will start reaching Madras harbour.

At the moment 850 fighters guard the skies of Madras. will he be able to break this defence? I got there the best I can efford: 4 groups of Tojos (various models), several groups of A6M5s, 1 group of A6M3, 1 with A6M5c, KI-43 IIa, IIb and IIIa, KI-61 Ib and some KI-45a.

The KB is now fielding 800+ planes

He has many many more. I know. I've seen the numbers. He has an endless stream of good and bad planes, but many more than 2000 as far as I can tell... Gotta be smart. Gotta be sneaky. Gotta be lucky.