Garrisons?

[marion61]

I brought this up in another thread, but I couldn't repeat it since it was on a server game. Well for some unknown reason, the values switched again and the small garrison cities reappeared. They had appeared the first turn that my opponent had taken the highlighted island, and when he pulled his troops off the island, they reverted back to the original values. The way I read the rule is that only that zone should have been affected, and not every zone. I couldn't get any recon over there, so I'm not sure if he moved troops back in or not, but the values changed again, and I don't think they should have the way they did, or maybe I'm misunderstanding the rule. Also that is the only hex he owns above hex row 250. I looked the whole map over. The turn is 32.

[Belphegor]

Just to confirm I did replace my invasion force with a smaller occupying force on the island. And in between those two events were a few turns of only aircraft and construction engineers being present on the island. So the turn I landed more combat troops is the turn this occurred. Sorry for that. I just felt that from a realism standpoint I would have some form of force on the island to protect the aircraft...

Anyway, that's what the allies have done to cause this situation.

[marion61]

This is from the manual: "If any hexes in a garrison zone are Western Allies controlled the Axis garrison requirement is set to 0 in that garrison zone and no cities in that zone require a garrison of any
kind".

Michealm did say that the wording was confusing on this and it should be a combat unit, not just wa controlled. Even with that, according to the above quote, that zone should be zero requirements for garrisons and it's not. I honestly don't see why this is happening the way it does, according to the manual.

[Joel Billings]

Yes, it does appear that the "invasion of Northern Europe" is triggered by having a combat unit in the area, not just a controlled hex. So when there's a unit in the hex, the Germans garrison requirements are lowered to those after the invasion. Also, the rules for only requiring security units kicks in, but it appears that this includes all the cities no matter what the date is. When there is no Allied unit in the area, the requirements return to the normal ones for the date.

[marion61]

I guess my next question would be if this is WAD, is that this could really be used to game your opponent. Take one amphib hq out of the Med. run it up and invade one of those islands, you see that your garrison requirements changed for the better, so you take units out, and when they are out, they can just take the troops home and you lose 500+vps. That's my biggest concern. Maybe those islands shouldn't count?

[Baelfiin]

definitely some potential for sleaze with those islands

[Joel Billings]

It's WAD as far as Gary designed it. [:)] Of course, the fact that it takes a unit and not a controlled hex means it wasn't documented properly, and in any event in hindsight I don't think the invasion of the Channel Islands should constitute the invasion of Northern Europe. Of course, it really hurts the Allies now more than anything, because with the lower garrison requirements, the Germans could leave things alone and start scoring some bonus points for having an excess garrison. Ideally these islands shouldn't count in the garrison zone, but I'm not sure how easy it will be to get them out. I can see why Gary went with a unit instead of just a controlled hex, because if the Allies get bounced off the continent, it would be best for the Germans to leave a hex not retaken in order to keep a lower garrison requirement.

[marion61]

But you do see how someone could exploit that? That's the main reason I brought it up. If people are more aware of it, then they won't get caught with their pants down like me.[;)]

[LiquidSky]

Hmm..he does make a good point though. Allies take channel islands. Axis do nothing. Garrison values therefore are way more then needed, so start scoring vp's.

If allies leave islands, garrison value goes back up, but units still on garrison, so vps's go back to normal.

Only a net win for the axis. Hardly a 'sleaze move' by the allies.

[marion61]

Not if your not expecting it, as I had said in another post. I couldn't get units off the trains in the zones that dropped from being 300%, to 80% or worse in time, thinking he has the island so my values shouldn't change. Not knowing that it was a "UNIT", which the manual doesn't say that causes the change, instead of "allied owned hex". Lose over 500vps to that, and you'll understand why I'm frustrated. It not hard to gauge when to pull those troops back off the island if you were going to game it. Just watch your garrison point fluctuation, and when it's low, take troops off the island, and bam! Easy 50 VP's. So while the axis get vp's and need troops elsewhere, when someone wants to spring that, I think that's gaming the system imho. And for the record that is not what my opponent intended.