Turnaround? Lowpe (J) vs Tiemanj (A) Stock

[topeverest]

The definitive E upgrade is later and SOOOOO worthwhile. Let me suggest that u use ample patrol air in searches with 70 skill and one or two patrol hunter killers in addition to your ASW sea assets

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: topeverest

The definitive E upgrade is later and SOOOOO worthwhile. Let me suggest that u use ample patrol air in searches with 70 skill and one or two patrol hunter killers in addition to your ASW sea assets

Can you say super E![:)]

I have a nasty feeling in the CentPac...sense of foreboding. The raiders are taking convoluted paths to safety and since they have radar they must fear something, too! Danger nigh!

August is 2/3rds over; in Sept a lot of IJN recon squadrons go bye bye...have to look and see if any planes become available. I know I get three CVs shortly, well one CV and two CVLs in scant days.

Talking about naval recon, I have set up a CVE with Judy C and a few Es to perform spot naval search or recon.

Lots of supply loading up for shipment out to the CentPac...and Indochina.

New raiders leaving the SRA for points south and west...

[Lowpe]

Aug 21, 1943

No night bombing.

CentPac: CLs escape from north of Nauru; KB undetected, within strike range of Kavieng...

Slightly lighter than normal bombing by the Allies....

Heavy traffic volume at Townsville...

[Lowpe]

Aug 22, 1943

No night bombing.

An especially deadly bombardment attack at Chengtu destroying 31 Chinese combat squads.[:)]

Desperately shipping out supplies, upgrading ships, training pilots, examining my weak defenses, looking at search patterns, trying to get intel on Allied intentions...I feel the hammer is about to drop.

Perth is quiet. Uncertain about Pearl, as it is death to venture close by. Indochina sees steady buildup, Townsville has heavy radio traffic -- and this day so do the Gilberts.

To a degree, I need to focus on what is important at this stage for Japan and not attempt to defend everywhere. Oil and Fuel, which means the SRA and to a lesser extent China. Then there is the need to develop the inner ring of defenses that will keep Allied bombers, B29s, from the HI economy for as long as possible, inflicting as much damage as possible.

The CV Taiho joins the fleet tomorrow. Much needed.

[Lowpe]

Ki100-I starts production next month, and this plane will be the mainstay Army fighter for a while. Frank A will come along probably about 2 months early, Feb 44, but I am not in love with Frank A. Now, the B Frank I do like! The R Frank will probably come too late, even thought I inherited 180 total factory points researching this plane (in two factories[X(]). I will have the Ki202 before Frank R.

I like fighters with cannons! Centerline cannons. The more the merrier! I will trade speed off for cannons quite a lot.

Oscar IV will be regulated to backup fighter and primarily an escort fighter.

I still have 3 squadrons of KAI Dinahs, all broken down into thirds, performing night CAP at 10percent. Petes and Alfs perform the same function on the Navy side. Not much night bombing since the first large nightfighter squadron became active.

Ki44IIc: still making them, nice speed, great climb, but no cannons. Just not enamored of the Tojo. Kamikaze?

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Ki44IIc: still making them, nice speed, great climb, but no cannons. Just not enamored of the Tojo. Kamikaze?

Rear AF CAP and training. Even if you train a group of pilots up to 70ish Air, their Exp is going to be under 50 in most cases... you can then train for Strafe (or something else) to get their Exp up, or you can set them up as CAP on a second- or third-line airfield. Running CAP will increase their Exp, as well as Air skill slightly...

And it will provide you with a modicum of protection from surprise, long range Allied bombing attacks.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Ki100-I starts production next month, and this plane will be the mainstay Army fighter for a while. Frank A will come along probably about 2 months early, Feb 44, but I am not in love with Frank A. Now, the B Frank I do like! The R Frank will probably come too late, even thought I inherited 180 total factory points researching this plane (in two factories[X(]). I will have the Ki202 before Frank R.

I like fighters with cannons! Centerline cannons. The more the merrier! I will trade speed off for cannons quite a lot.

Oscar IV will be regulated to backup fighter and primarily an escort fighter.

I still have 3 squadrons of KAI Dinahs, all broken down into thirds, performing night CAP at 10percent. Petes and Alfs perform the same function on the Navy side. Not much night bombing since the first large nightfighter squadron became active.

Ki44IIc: still making them, nice speed, great climb, but no cannons. Just not enamored of the Tojo. Kamikaze?

KI-44 IIc remains a more than decent plane, even in 1944 IMHO. Its climb rate and its speed makes it for a pretty good dealer of the allied escort and sweep. Surely it's hard to deal with 4Es with just tojos.
However, if you got the KI-100 so early I think you can use them both very effectively.
Tojo for its climb rate. Tony for its cannons. Frank...well, frank for everything

In a PDU ON game I think that now I will favour the Oscar IV over the KI-100. The low dur of the Oscar becomes very handy when dealing with damaged planes... they do get repaired mostly in a couple of days even after harsh battles. A plane with 30 DUR will take many more days, even with SR=1.

Anyway, having you the freedom to use them all, I think you can easily skip the Tojo and keep the KI-84, the KI-100 and the KI-43 IV. They will serve you just as good

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Ki44IIc: still making them, nice speed, great climb, but no cannons. Just not enamored of the Tojo. Kamikaze?

Rear AF CAP and training. Even if you train a group of pilots up to 70ish Air, their Exp is going to be under 50 in most cases... you can then train for Strafe (or something else) to get their Exp up, or you can set them up as CAP on a second- or third-line airfield. Running CAP will increase their Exp, as well as Air skill slightly...

And it will provide you with a modicum of protection from surprise, long range Allied bombing attacks.

Doing this quite a lot now...rear area CAP, especially with IJN fighters since I am short pilots for training. I set the squadron to 90CAP and only 10 Rest and watch the experience grow. Unfortunately, defense doesn't get better, but air skill does a little.

Lousy long range Allied bombers, almost nothing is safe! It will only get worse...

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Ki44IIc: still making them, nice speed, great climb, but no cannons. Just not enamored of the Tojo. Kamikaze?

Rear AF CAP and training. Even if you train a group of pilots up to 70ish Air, their Exp is going to be under 50 in most cases... you can then train for Strafe (or something else) to get their Exp up, or you can set them up as CAP on a second- or third-line airfield. Running CAP will increase their Exp, as well as Air skill slightly...

And it will provide you with a modicum of protection from surprise, long range Allied bombing attacks.

Doing this quite a lot now...rear area CAP, especially with IJN fighters since I am short pilots for training. I set the squadron to 90CAP and only 10 Rest and watch the experience grow. Unfortunately, defense doesn't get better, but air skill does a little.

Lousy long range Allied bombers, almost nothing is safe! It will only get worse...

Indeed. You gotta train in Strafe or something to improve that Defense skill. Or throw them into the fire and see who survives...

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
However, if you got the KI-100 so early I think you can use them both very effectively.
Tojo for its climb rate. Tony for its cannons. Frank...well, frank for everything

I think that might be the key...using multiple models and flying them to their strengths. I did real well against a lightning sweep with George sky high, Tojo IIc mid altitude, and Oscar IV very low.

I wish you could see the final combat altitude of dogfights...

I really like the Oscar IV too! I fly them very low, and have lost count of the number of evasions they get each combat...which offsets their low durability. Can't shoot down a plane that evades! That will change against faster Allied fighters...but for now they are a tough fighter, imo better than TojoIIc by a significant margin. In Downfall, Oscar IVs fall like winter leaves, but then almost every Japanese plane does.

[Lowpe]

How important are the Marianas?

I am at the crux point on deciding how heavily I build up the Marianas. Forts are 5ish, runways are built to normal max...should I really try to turn Guam, Saipan, and Tinian into really strong festungs? Max forts, max runways, more than 1 division plus each...plus all the support that would take in supplies and units? How would that deplete defenses at Luzon? Kuriles?

My thinking currently is yes.

I worry about an early attack here while the defenses are still pretty far forward. Perhaps this is unrealistic as the supply line would simply be too great for the Allies; but it has me concerned. The KB cannot win a stand up fight with the Allies, perhaps it can within range of land based air that depletes the American CVs first. But I don't really want to get into a trade of CVs; I want the CVs to be a fleet in being for a long time.

[Lowpe]

Have there been AARed games that went into 44+ where the Allies didn't go for the Marianas?

[mind_messing]

How important are the Marianas?

Pretty important. Without the Marianas, the Allies cannot pose a serious threat to the Bonins or Luzon. They can push around the Marianas via New Guinea, but that's a long, narrow and difficult front to advance along.

I am at the crux point on deciding how heavily I build up the Marianas. Forts are 5ish, runways are built to normal max...should I really try to turn Guam, Saipan, and Tinian into really strong festungs? Max forts, max runways, more than 1 division plus each...plus all the support that would take in supplies and units? How would that deplete defenses at Luzon? Kuriles?

First thing you should do is open the LCU reinforcement screen and filter it to IJA infantry units.

They start to come in a slow drip in early '44 and ramp up as the year progresses. Once you're into '45 you'll have divisions all over the place.

The restricted units you can fly out to the Bonin's and Kuriles. The unrestricted units you send to the Marianas. Once the Marianas has a heavy garrison, you can send the new arrivals to Luzon.

Most of the arriving units are pretty poor, and they get don't get much better as the war progresses, so see if you can't use PP's to get some good stuff out of China/Manchuria/Korea and to the Marianas.

[JocMeister]

Marianas is one of the most important places on the map. Its within B-29 range of the HI...

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Marianas is one of the most important places on the map. Its within B-29 range of the HI...

I don't know if you read it, but Captain Cruft's AAR the Marianas are not part of the Hive....which very loosely based is a 20 hex perimeter around the Home Islands. Which to me is an interesting, and non-conventional strategy.

I worry that dumping probably a million supply, tons of troops and efforts into the Marianas still won't be enough to prevent the Yanks from getting B29s in range by mid 44. Not to mention the fleet will probably go down defending that huge investment too.

I understand the destructiveness of B29s operating from there from my Downfall game against M-M. But I also understand the terrible damage that jugs and mustangs can do once they get within extended range of the HI which really opens up daytime bombing. If you shoot the farm on the Marianas, it makes later defenses so much harder. Plus, you are defending without the benefit of kamikazes...

Just thinking out loud here...

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Marianas is one of the most important places on the map. Its within B-29 range of the HI...

I don't know if you read it, but Captain Cruft's AAR the Marianas are not part of the Hive....which very loosely based is a 20 hex perimeter around the Home Islands. Which to me is an interesting, and non-conventional strategy.

I worry that dumping probably a million supply, tons of troops and efforts into the Marianas still won't be enough to prevent the Yanks from getting B29s in range by mid 44. Not to mention the fleet will probably go down defending that huge investment too.

I understand the destructiveness of B29s operating from there from my Downfall game against M-M. But I also understand the terrible damage that jugs and mustangs can do once they get within extended range of the HI which really opens up daytime bombing. If you shoot the farm on the Marianas, it makes later defenses so much harder. Plus, you are defending without the benefit of kamikazes...

Just thinking out loud here...

To paraphrase Grant, stop worry about what the Allies are going to do to you and start thinking about what you'll do to them.

If you're having doubts over the Marianas, think on this:

- The only Allied land-based air support will be 4E's flying unescorted at pretty long ranges and in numbers limited by poor airbase potentials.
- You can stack the Marianas with enough land-based aircraft to give the Allied carriers a hard time trying to suppress the islands. I, for one, really want to see what happens when the USMC crashes ashore onto a island that hasn't been suppressed prior to the invasion.
- What collection of bases are as good as the Marianas that you'd rather fight over? Okinawa, the Bonin's ect all have small airbases.
- If you want to commit your fleet assets to the fight, you've Manila about five days sail away, and the Home Islands about a week away. The Allies have no repair yards till Pearl or Sydney.

If you shoot the farm on the Marianas, it makes later defenses so much harder.

Where would you rather defend?

As I've said, you can't ram anywhere near as many aircraft onto the Bonin's and if the Allies get on Luzon, they can work up towards Formosa and Okinawa with just land-based aircraft.

The Marianas are a unique oppertunity to fight the Allied CV force without Allied LBA in support.

I think that if you don't shoot the farm on the Marianas, later defences will be so much harder as the Allies are bombing your production into ashes turn after turn.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

Where would you rather defend?

As I've said, you can't ram anywhere near as many aircraft onto the Bonin's and if the Allies get on Luzon, they can work up towards Formosa and Okinawa with just land-based aircraft.

The Marianas are a unique oppertunity to fight the Allied CV force without Allied LBA in support.

I think that if you don't shoot the farm on the Marianas, later defences will be so much harder as the Allies are bombing your production into ashes turn after turn.

All good points. I would rather be fighting in Oz and the Gilberts in 45, like Topeverest's game, but oh well...

I was curious if you could build up the Marianas so much the Allies go another route...something like what is happening in Wargamr's AAR up thru SRA into China and Luzon. I think I would rather fight there...I especially like Luzon, with railroads, multiple airbases, some safe from shore bombardment, railroads...in fact there are several size 8 or soon to be 8's runways on Luzon now.

I don't think you will see a contested invasion against an atoll without heavy disruption among the defenders. There is a possibility you will see that kind of fight against a larger Island? Don't know. Didn't Loka invade Wake relatively early on against you?

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Marianas is one of the most important places on the map. Its within B-29 range of the HI...

I don't know if you read it, but Captain Cruft's AAR the Marianas are not part of the Hive....which very loosely based is a 20 hex perimeter around the Home Islands. Which to me is an interesting, and non-conventional strategy.

I worry that dumping probably a million supply, tons of troops and efforts into the Marianas still won't be enough to prevent the Yanks from getting B29s in range by mid 44. Not to mention the fleet will probably go down defending that huge investment too.

I understand the destructiveness of B29s operating from there from my Downfall game against M-M. But I also understand the terrible damage that jugs and mustangs can do once they get within extended range of the HI which really opens up daytime bombing. If you shoot the farm on the Marianas, it makes later defenses so much harder. Plus, you are defending without the benefit of kamikazes...

Just thinking out loud here...

Well, if you are certain the Allies will get within B29 range from somewhere else throwing assets into Marianas may still be a very good idea. Remember that the Allies have enough forces to prep for multiple big operations in late 44. And once the Marianas fall its just one jump away from Luzon. You don´t want the Allies on Luzon in 44.

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

Where would you rather defend?

As I've said, you can't ram anywhere near as many aircraft onto the Bonin's and if the Allies get on Luzon, they can work up towards Formosa and Okinawa with just land-based aircraft.

The Marianas are a unique oppertunity to fight the Allied CV force without Allied LBA in support.

I think that if you don't shoot the farm on the Marianas, later defences will be so much harder as the Allies are bombing your production into ashes turn after turn.

All good points. I would rather be fighting in Oz and the Gilberts in 45, like Topeverest's game, but oh well...

Keep in mind that topeverest's game has juiced Japan out of the ball-park.

I was curious if you could build up the Marianas so much the Allies go another route...something like what is happening in Wargamr's AAR up thru SRA into China and Luzon.

I think that depends on your opponent. The attraction of the Marianas is two fold:

- The bases can be built up quite large and (both for future invasions and for B-29 bombing) and are isolated from Japanese counter-attacks and raids.
- They simplify logistics - once Wake is captured/suppressed the Allies can ship from the West Coast to PH then directly to the Marianas.

Put it quite simply, if the Allies decide not to go for the Marianas, the only other real options they can go for are the Kuriles or to try to work towards Luzon.

I think I would rather fight there...I especially like Luzon, with railroads, multiple airbases, some safe from shore bombardment, railroads...in fact there are several size 8 or soon to be 8's runways on Luzon now.

All that glitters is not gold. The same is true of Luzon.

It looks nice, with the inland airbases and the railroad connections, but you have to think about the rest of the PI. There are dozens of islands south of Luzon with good airbase potentials, and you can't hope to defend them all. When the Allies come for Luzon, they can take several of these islands and start building airbases quicker than you can bomb them.

Once the airbases are up, escorted 4E's will be able to start pounding Luzon into dust, the Allied battleships can get LR-CAP for bombardment runs and the USN fleet carriers are left free to do what they will.

See Obvert and Joc's AAR for a good example of this.

Compare that with the Marianas, where the only aircraft that can reach the islands are 4E's and any battleship bombardments need carrier escorts to be possible.

That's not to say that Luzon shouldn't be as much of a fortress as you can make it, just to say that there are better places to have your line in the sand.

I don't think you will see a contested invasion against an atoll without heavy disruption among the defenders. There is a possibility you will see that kind of fight against a larger Island? Don't know. Didn't Loka invade Wake relatively early on against you?

I'm not sure that's the case. When Loka raided Wake, the aviation unit and the CD unit drew most of the distruption and left the two combat units in reasonable condition.

With a larger island = more units = harder job to deal out disruption. At least, that's what I hope. CD units seem to absorb distruption for other units, keep the bombarding ships honest and deal some damage to troops unloading.

There's no forced shock attack for larger islands, but there is the defender's auto-bombard to think about.

[Lowpe]

Aug 23, 1943

No night bombing. Endo Det gets withdrawn in several days. They are credited with four kills, and only suffered one loss and that on the ground to a daytime bombing mission.

Normal Allied bombing. American picket ships have returned to duty in single or two ship task forces.

At Kobe, a new ship. A warship! A really good warship! Those Zeroes will get upgraded to the 5c model right away, so that the A6M5s can be used from the pool to convert some Jake squadrons over to fighters. Can't remember how many, but at least one squadron.

What to accelerate now? More CVs? DDs and Es? The two remaining CLs (nah!). SSTs? Nah. Bank the HI savings....nah. The torpedo plane carrying subs? Tankers?