Turnaround? Lowpe (J) vs Tiemanj (A) Stock

[Lowpe]

Ok, pretty convinced to make the Marianas tough nut to crack. Yesterday a whole lot of support units landed at Saipan, and another 30K of supply. Not nearly enough, but stuff is heading out every day.

[Lowpe]

From around the Empire...random bits of news.

POW has been making her way to better repair yards...but she will be gone for a while! I think I managed to get one sub on her south of Ceylon, but they couldn't breach the ASW screens.

Two pilots escape! That is great...need more.

Allies building Ramree...busy little beavers.

[topeverest]

Tough call. I have seen two basic solutions that seem to work better than others in the late war.

IMHO, not possible to hold the Marianna's without a maximum effort. Ask yourself if that is where you plan to expense the bulk of your combat fleets. I think you should give the allies a major road bump, but you have to ask yourself how you are going to combat the CV force - how many does he have active right now - and the dreaded corsairs & F6F. Very nasty with excellent pilots when you only have a limited number of exposed bases to launch from.

IMHO, in most cases, it is better to expense your fleets in and around the Philippines, where you can hide it and strike suddenly and with massed kamis from multiple bases - getting something meaningful in exchange. don't get me wrong. I am all for big forts, mines, subs, and some small naval force counterpulse, but I would not be making my maximum defense there or expensing massive air or naval assets.

Ever thought of taking the initiative and invading somewhere painful?

[topeverest]

A few more thoughts - - - -

IMHO - Allied CVE's by later 43 are a menace as great or greater than the fleet CV's if they are massed. The only empire late war formula that can work (that I have seen) is when empire surface counterpulse ships reach the allied CV's and shake them up a bit - combined with an LBA, Kami, and Fleet response - I don't know a better way in late war to pull a rabbit out of the hat.

Said more broadly, I strongly believe that Decisive Battle is the only option that can meaningfully extend the late war. Attritional strategies will be ineffective except around the edges. The trick is knowing when to make that maximum effort.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: topeverest

Ever thought of taking the initiative and invading somewhere painful?

Not really....too painful for me I think. Counter invade Wake? That is more my speed, but even there the risk reward is not worth it I think.

I did get more than halfway to bombing Seattle and the Boeing factories there once before scrubbing the mission, and I have thought about lately too.

[Lowpe]

Long legged Norms...on a mission. A secret mission. Deep, deep at sea. The CS is acting like an oiler for some destroyers. A few xaks are following with fuel. A CA, CL are also with them, or nearbye, and in this case nearbye is a dozen hexes....it would be sweet to come across a CVE on ASW patrol.

It would have been nice to use the three fast CS's with 60 Jakes on convoy raiding deep in the Ocean, preferably an Ocean where there is no enemy CVs in 1942 to early 43. Missed that chance.

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: topeverest

IMHO, in most cases, it is better to expense your fleets in and around the Philippines, where you can hide it and strike suddenly and with massed kamis from multiple bases - getting something meaningful in exchange. don't get me wrong. I am all for big forts, mines, subs, and some small naval force counterpulse, but I would not be making my maximum defense there or expensing massive air or naval assets.

We'll need to disagree on this.

I can't see how it is preferable to fight around the Philippines. Allowing the Allies to bring short-legged LBA into play more than out-weighs any advantage the Philippines provides the defender. You can be sure that short-legged LBA will be in play - there's just too many bases in the area to garrison, so the Allies can have LBA CAP up on D-Day +1.

A move on the Marianas will require the Allied player to actually take an island before he has a single LBA fighter plane on CAP over his invasion fleet. He has to depend on his carrier CAP, which will need to provide CAP for the carriers and the invasion fleet, as well as escort any anti-shipping or suppression bombing raids.

[Lowpe]

Ships I like and use a lot:



The clip art is very well done. Hats off![&o]

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing
A move on the Marianas will require the Allied player to actually take an island before he has a single LBA fighter plane on CAP over his invasion fleet. He has to depend on his carrier CAP, which will need to provide CAP for the carriers and the invasion fleet, as well as escort any anti-shipping or suppression bombing raids.

Lets see the Marianas timeline from an Allied perspective: Move a CVE task force in with tons of fighters. Protected by surface groups, supported with ample subs. Race fletchers in and out.

If the Japanese raid this group, 300-600 planes and pilots gone. Maybe a few CVEs hit. Then the very next day the more CVEs show up. The following day the CVs, Invasion fleets, the shore bombardments, the minesweepers.

Invade one or two of the smaller bases, establish a fighter base and put corsairs there.

Game over...except for the dying.

From the Japanese perspective: spot the invasion/fleets early. Withold your airplanes from a first day trap. Hit the invasion fleets somehow. Fight to the last riceball on Guam and Saipan and Tinian delaying the B29 scourge for as long as possible.

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: mind_messing
A move on the Marianas will require the Allied player to actually take an island before he has a single LBA fighter plane on CAP over his invasion fleet. He has to depend on his carrier CAP, which will need to provide CAP for the carriers and the invasion fleet, as well as escort any anti-shipping or suppression bombing raids.

Invade one or two of the smaller bases, establish a fighter base and put corsairs there.

That right there is the problem. The Allies need to take that base on D-Day +1 to have fighters on it by D-Day +2.

Otherwise, they have a choice - leave their CVE's in range of Japanese land-based air or leave the ground troops without air cover and hope that enough got ashore to capture the island.

[njp72]

For what its worth my 2 cents worth of advice fighting against the Allies and a very competent opponent during the later stages of the war is as follows:

1. Always try to fight naval air as opposed to land based.

2. The closer the major battles are to the HI, the far better chance you have of inflicting real punishment.

3. Targeting fleet CVs with air is largely a waste of time and the cost is prohibitive. Going after CVEs and amphib task forces can deliver some decent results.

4. Supply goes off a cliff once the intensity of land and air battles increases in late 44.

5. Be prepared to be patient. Decent air strike packages need land and CV coordination plus large airbases + support. If used in isolation of one another they will generally fail.

6. Naturally and unfortunately be prepared to lose unless the Sun God intervenes and destroys his fleet with a typhoon or some other bizarre event.

cheers

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: mind_messing
A move on the Marianas will require the Allied player to actually take an island before he has a single LBA fighter plane on CAP over his invasion fleet. He has to depend on his carrier CAP, which will need to provide CAP for the carriers and the invasion fleet, as well as escort any anti-shipping or suppression bombing raids.

Invade one or two of the smaller bases, establish a fighter base and put corsairs there.

That right there is the problem. The Allies need to take that base on D-Day +1 to have fighters on it by D-Day +2.

Otherwise, they have a choice - leave their CVE's in range of Japanese land-based air or leave the ground troops without air cover and hope that enough got ashore to capture the island.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: njp72

For what its worth my 2 cents worth of advice fighting against the Allies and a very competent opponent during the later stages of the war is as follows:

Your two cents are always welcome![&o]

[Lowpe]

I got my turn down, and around, and I am still just moving troops and supply around. Fiddling with search patterns, sending out some raiders again, and pilot training.

Chengtu will see heavier Japanese bombing and another deliberate attack. Should knock the forts down to 1, possibly 0 with this battle.

200 Fighters will be flying lrcap over the troops at Tuang Gyi. I could fly out of Tuang, but I need a connected rail line back so that the frames can escape and live to fight another day. George up high, and the George, Oscar IV and Tojo IIc at mid altitude to attack the bombers.

LRCAP hasn't worked for me real well. The Squadrons seem to want to fly off to far distant bases and get into dogfights with fighters, rather than follow their orders. We will see what happens here.

Upgraded a Rufe squadron to A6M5s. Will do several of the other FF squadrons too. I need fighters more than float fighters.

[Lowpe]

These are the danger thrusts I currently worry about.

A strike at Hokkaido.

A strike at the Marianas.

A strike at Kavieng, and the base south of it.

A strike at Tavoy area.

A strike at Sabang.

Darwin, Perth seem quiet, so a strike at the lower SRA seems unlikely, as does a strike at Port Moresby.

Tavoy strike would be steaming into massed land based air, and large surface assets of IJN.

But the others would all prove very troublesome.

[Lokasenna]

It's been a while since you/I ruminated on your opponent's naval losses, but I seem to recall that they are not insignificant, yes?

If so, I wouldn't except a move on Hokkaido simply because supporting it would prove too costly.

[Lowpe]

You may be right, I have sunk close to 900 ships.

[Lowpe]

Aug 24, 1943

I screwed up and sent only a partially done turn...my bad. My LR CAP and attack on Chengtu fell into an operational abyss somewhere, will try the LR CAP this next day.

No night bombing.

Normal Allied bombing.

Normal fleet movements of troops, supplies and ships.

[Lowpe]

Aug 25, 1943...

No night bombing...

Off Madras a large Allied transport or invasion fleet...

[Lowpe]

CentPac

Death from below!

[Lowpe]

Taung Gyi:

Death from Above!