Thoughts on Fortifications

[Radagy]

My first campaign is teaching me a hard lesson about super heavy fortresses. As WA I'm sieging Cherbourg, ten British divisions with engineers, super heavy arty and two Amph Hq, two attacks per turn, but fortress level is not even dropping from 4 to 3. Moreover my losses are horrendous (an average of 10 to 1).
I'm starting to think that the only way you can get that spot is conducting a long siege in a medieval way.

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: SigUp

ORIGINAL: LiquidSky



The Germans did a good job vacating the front line during Bagration.

That was by Hitler's orders. The Germans did a very good job using the "Großkampfverfahren" developed in the World War One to bloody the Soviet offensives in the area of AGC in late 1943 and early 1944, causing hideous Soviet losses. Especially Heinrici was good at it. The first line was lightly manned and got evacuated immediately after shelling began. Real resistance only happened at the (main) secondary line to the rear, which was largely untouched by Soviet bombardment. Thus, when the Soviets began assaulting that main line they ran into a stable line backed up by artillery, while they weren't being covered by theirs anymore. Prior to Bagration, however, Hitler forbade the evacuation of the first line and even hindered construction of secondary lines to its rear. The results weren't pretty during Bagration.

the reality was a bit more complex.

At its worst Soviet artillery doctrine was a combination of direct fire (the 76mm divisional guns) and by the map. Poor recon and astute German tactics could effectively negate this. The 'best' example of these failings were the multiple failed offensives leading to murderous losses by Western Front from late 42 to late 43 on the Orsha-Vitebsk sector.

At its best, it was a pragmatic solution to their problems. This meant good recon, multiple plans and considerable flexibility in their selection. A good eg of when they got it right was the northern portion of Kursk. Central Front had drawn up a series of artillery plans for a barrage to disrupt the German preparations, and they gambled (and relied on all the intelligence they had) and hit 9 Army's pre-assault positions.

In early 1944, Rokossovsky took over part of the old Western Front and revised their attack doctrine. This now saw a large 'reconnaisance in force', large enough to confuse the Germans as to whether it was a major attack or not, and with multiple fire plans. These included the possibility that the Germans would pull off a tactical witdrawal, with the bulk of the artillery ranged on likely fall back positions. The Germans repeated their tactics that had worked for the last year and fell straight into the Soviet trap. Capturing Gomel set up the later Bagration.

It may have been the failure of their traditional tactical response to a Soviet offensive that led Hitler to order holding the well fortified front lines?

[HMSWarspite]

ORIGINAL: Radagy

My first campaign is teaching me a hard lesson about super heavy fortresses. As WA I'm sieging Cherbourg, ten British divisions with engineers, super heavy arty and two Amph Hq, two attacks per turn, but fortress level is not even dropping from 4 to 3. Moreover my losses are horrendous (an average of 10 to 1).
I'm starting to think that the only way you can get that spot is conducting a long siege in a medieval way.

Your problem may be the "2 attacks per turn". If you do a big attack it uses a lot of supplies etc. it also fatigues your troops. It will burn down the defender as well but if you don't reduce the fortification level you are almost certainly suffering more than the defender on the second attack. It is then asking a awful lot to recover by next turn, so you risk a vicious death spiral on your troops. If my first set piece fails I don't do a second in the same turn unless I can add significant new troops. Also Cherbourg probably has a large well stocked depot...if it has a decent garrison it will be a tough nut. Why do you think most west coast French ports were left strictly alone?

[HMSWarspite]

ORIGINAL: Smirfy


Im just not kinda good with raw figures looking at GROUPS (34ac/0) dont really tell me much nor does it immerse me if i was seeing GROUPS (150 Wing/100 Wing) or GROUPS (KG1/IIIJG26) that might trigger oh yes that is my Typhoon wing being escorted by Spitfires or thats my JU88's escorted by 109's. I keep forgeting whats in what group when I put them together.

Don't get you. Available a/c units are listed sorted by type...

[Radagy]

At last I got Cherbourg, but the price I paid is far too high in terms of vp (my fault, I attacked too much and with costly british troops). I wonder how long the siege could last if I didn't press so hard.
Right now (middle of july) I'm beginnig to break resistance in the Contentine Penisula, but I have a hard time dislodging the Axis from the Gothinc line.
Since I just invaded southern France, I sadly realize that I have not enough air forces to be on the offence and interdicting three fronts at once. No way to break a fortified line if you don't starve the defenders a bit.

[Smirfy]

Yes I see that and think air is really good but I just can't warm to how you physically operate it. I just can't understand the layers when all you do is put it in intediction. Why cant I just have a fighter Bomber HQ (s)and I click on superiority,escort, interdiction or ground support and thats what they do. Why cant the Hq just have your choice of target? 10 Group *click* Railways, *click*, area *click*, area size *click* good to go. As it stands now its unclick, unclick, unclick whoops forgot to unclick that, why are my 12 Typhoons not gettting supply? Wish they were just in Wings like the USAF Oh thats right click, wait a minute! unclick okay that should be interdiction maximised lets go!

[SigUp]

What do you want to show us with this screenshot? I still don't get your issue. The settings from a handling point of perspective is very simple. I want interdiction? Click on ground attack, click on the target hex, set the range, click on interdiction in the priority setting, select the groups I want to do that job, maybe adjust altitude and schedule if I feel like it. Voila, done.

[marion61]

Did you bomb it's port and rail yard before you took it? Doing that reduces the supplies stockpiles at the port. Port doesn't function, supplies don't go out, inbound or outbound. And lock it down with naval interdiction if you haven't already.

[Smirfy]

I am having trouble strategically bombing anything after the first couple of turns, what should be a couple of clicks becomes infuriating

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: Smirfy

I am having trouble strategically bombing anything after the first couple of turns, what should be a couple of clicks becomes infuriating

how?

I have a default mission set up for Bomber Command - top priority manpower, second HI and have 2 basic groups and shift them around with one tending to hit the Ruhr and the other wandering across the bigger targets in Germany. In effect of the 2 groups, I change target priority of 1 or 2 per turn

For the US its a wee bit more complex as I am either after U-boats or fuel so if I shift target I have to alter the priority chart too.

but you do know you can set the airwar to the AI? Or just fuss with the air doctrine screen? I think in an AI game the AI does a good enough job, esp if you don't want to invest the time in using the range of tools provided?

[GrumpyMel]

Hey Meklore....

Thanks! Getting better results after following your advice on air settings. It took a litteral ton of tweaking for me to do.... but the bombs (and more like the rockets, really) are finally doing some good effect.