AI Improvement Mod (1.05 Extended Release)

[Testmann]

try to make peace quickly once you have conquered your wargoals. sometimes you can get a cheap peace by offering trade sanctions to another empire..

In order to defend raids, I'd recommend long range sensor bases to know when the enemy is comming.

[UnfriendlyBG]

thanks. I dont know what my wargoals are lol maybe thats the problem. Usually its just take as many colonies as possible. Im actually about to make a 3rd video that im probably going to upload to youtube about the war that im in that i started making after i made this post.

[UnfriendlyBG]

So I started just recording some gameplay to get some help with my war problems but I just played a lot better and it went fine. I decided just to make a let's play out of it since I was having fun and its kinda interesting because I found the super area weapon in some ruins like right at the beginning of the game.

It wont let me post links so go to youtube and paste this after the youtube homepage url: /playlist?list=PLJ0_WUspUeoVkVJuNvkqP-cTKXr1_nU0t

[Icemania]

ORIGINAL: Testmann
First, Racial Biases should be more in relation to their form of government.
Other Empires that have very friendly governments still hate me because of different race group.
Race seems to be at least 2 times as important as government right now. please a bit less racism and a bit more government priority for biases.

The changes I’ve made in 1.04 were about making the AI less passive particularly for aggressive races.

“RacialBiases.txt” is only about races, there is no government component. They are fixed values that apply at game setup that show up in-game as how a races either naturally likes or dislikes you.

I see there is a "GovernmentBiases.txt" file but I haven't changed that at all from Vanilla. I suppose I can change it, it's a good idea, but how would that benefit the AI? That is the goal of the Mod.

ORIGINAL: Testmann
Second, your design templates seem to focus very much on just one weapon.
My whole fleet and bases solely rely on torpedo weapons while completely ignoring beam weapons, fighters and tractor beams.

Even if my lasers are 5 techs ahead the design ai still uses level 1 garbage-torpedos. (Ackdarians)

In large space battles I get crushed because of bad weapons composition.
Automated ship design becomes very closeminded/not fun at all.
I'd love to see ship designs use a larger variety of weapons/fighters/tractor beams.

The Vanilla AI Ship Designs have a bunch of problems which allow players to easily exploit the AI. Let's systematically go through each problem and what the AI Improvement Mod does.

By putting a bunch of different weapons on each ship the AI is forced to research all of those weapon types. While the AI slowly does that I'll beeline to a high tier weapon of a particular type. Now do whatever testing you like (I have) but the synergistic effects of multiple weapons types are rarely enough to make up for that, in fact it's normally a slaughter. So each race in the AI Improvement Mod targets a particular weapon (in some cases there is a combination where the synergy is meaningful). The templates, tactics and research strategies are aligned.

Now when multiple weapons are used of fundamentally different types in Vanilla, what tactic should the AI use? On a ship design which mixes beams and missiles, do I apply point blank (the best choice for beams) or all weapons (the best choice for missiles). Either option is far from optimal. In contrast, in the AI Improvement Mod I've applied the tactic that works best for that weapon.

There is limited variation in weapons in Vanilla. Most races use beams and torpedoes/missiles. Relatively few use phasers, rail guns, gravitic weapons or fighters/bombers. And races that use some weapons, like rail guns, are at a distinct disadvantage as the weapon is underpowered. In the AI Improvement Mod, weapons have been balanced and there is a broader variety in weapons used across the races, indeed it's pretty much an even split. I find it more fun to have that variety in-game and more challenging because the AI isn't applying a stupid research order to go along with a stupid design.

Vanilla ship sizes are also very small, indeed this is probably the most common complaint. In the AI Improvement Mod, I've done everything possible to increase ship design sizes (and the developer has supported by improving shrinkage algorithms) and the AI is far more focused on construction research as well.

Now the game appears to have some hard coded rules. Let's use the Ackdarian example you mentioned. They focus on Torpedoes, if you happened to research Missiles, the auto design would apply Torpedoes. But if you focused on Beams, it won't auto design using Torpedoes, as they are different weapons classes.

To make it visible what strategy each race applies in their Templates, you'll find information in the Galactopedia help files in-game for each race. There is also an Excel workbook "AI Improvement Mod.xls" in the Mod Folder, the summary tab in particular.

You can either apply the strategy intended for the race, auto design using the same class of weapon, or manually select the research to ensure the designs align if you want to use something completely different.

There is also another option if you don't mind getting into the Mod folders. For example personally I like playing Quameno with Torpedoes. In the AI Improvement Mod the Quameno use Gravitic Weapons. Since the Ackdarian designs use Torpedoes, I have a "custom" theme where the Ackdarian templates folder has simply been copied over to the Quameno, and also have a custom research order in the race file. A couple of the designs have been customised to suit my strategy. That way I can put Ship and Base Design as well as Research on Auto. Which means more battles in less time ...

You put all these factors together and it's possible to get an entire game on Extreme difficulty, including the Shakturi, and never loose a single ship on Vanilla. In contrast, with these designs the AI will pawn the Vanilla Shakturi ... so I've upgraded them as well. So I'm not going to change the designs back to Vanilla as it defeats the entire purpose of the Mod i.e. to improve the AI.

[Icemania]

ORIGINAL: UnfriendlyBG
This is probably the wrong place to ask, but I am using the mod so I'm not sure what affect it has. How do I go to war with a similar strength and size empire (20ish colonies?) without it just being trading planets back and forth.

Looks like you've got a good thread going on the Steam forums for this, I'll respond more there.

[UnfriendlyBG]

Just finished a game as the Sluken. Just some observations. First the sluken ships are set to never flee. I think this is from an RP standpoint but it brings basically nothing to the table gameplay wise and puts them at a total disadvantage. Plus if you end up playing as them as the player you have to go and edit your own designs even if you dont want that hassle. I think in the interest of gameplay they should be set to flee just like the rest of the races are.

Second. It seems like in my games that the colonization techs are a little off. I played on slow research this last one on a 6x6 galaxy but it wouldnt be much difference otherwise anyway. By the time you actually research the last colonization tech there are no colonies left in the galaxy. You're paying a whole lot for something thats not important imo. Im not sure what my opinion is on the advanced colonization techs they might be ok but stand to use a little bit of a decrease. I was only able to research 1 in my last game. I think you end up having to spend too much time in colonization and dont get to go into the rest of the tree but that's just me.

[Icemania]

ORIGINAL: UnfriendlyBG
Just finished a game as the Sluken. Just some observations. First the sluken ships are set to never flee. I think this is from an RP standpoint but it brings basically nothing to the table gameplay wise and puts them at a total disadvantage. Plus if you end up playing as them as the player you have to go and edit your own designs even if you dont want that hassle. I think in the interest of gameplay they should be set to flee just like the rest of the races are.

The options for the AI were to flee at 20% Shields or Never.

For a really aggressive race using short range weapons and point blank tactics, 20% Shields is nothing short of silly. Just to get to a position where they have a DPS advantage, they have to take some hits from races with long range weapons. Often, just as they get into a position where they will eventually win, they flee! It's particularly silly if they have good armour and repair technology. So given the limited choices, I selected Never.

I notice in Patch 1.9.5.10 we have a new option to flee at 50% Armour according to the patch notes. That might be a better option for those races. However, it's actually "Armour at 50% OR Shields at 20%" which doesn't really help.

Please keep in mind the goal of the Mod was to improve the AI, not to help humans. Personally I could never put Ship design on Auto with Vanilla as the designs are poor, everything needs major upgrades. But with the AI Mod I often play on Auto Designs. That said, I have my own design templates, which have minor modifications from the Mod to suit my personal strategy. They are very easy to edit. Ship design can then be left on Auto all game and becomes completely hassle free.

ORIGINAL: UnfriendlyBG
Second. It seems like in my games that the colonization techs are a little off. I played on slow research this last one on a 6x6 galaxy but it wouldnt be much difference otherwise anyway. By the time you actually research the last colonization tech there are no colonies left in the galaxy. You're paying a whole lot for something thats not important imo. Im not sure what my opinion is on the advanced colonization techs they might be ok but stand to use a little bit of a decrease. I was only able to research 1 in my last game. I think you end up having to spend too much time in colonization and dont get to go into the rest of the tree but that's just me.

The Advanced Colonisation technologies should double the population growth rate for that planet type, a huge benefit which shouldn't come cheap. Unfortunately there is an unresolved bug I reported in Tech Support some time ago which I would still like to see fixed.

Keep in mind you are playing a relatively small map with slow research. In Vanilla I found it was always preferable to go with Wonders first rather than Colonisation technologies. Now there is more choice to make as a player. Do I shoot for a Wonder knowing that the AI will be far better at targeting Wonders with the Mod? Or do I target different world types to colonise to claim territory? Or instead do I target the extra population growth (with the bug fixed)? It isn't really the intent to research them all, at least until late game. Also note the research costs of the Wonder branches are significant as well.

[Sabretooth]

I'd say, at least the Shipyard Wonder should be a must have for every1.

[UnfriendlyBG]

Ok I understand your reasoning with never. All I know is I saw quite an improvement in performance when I changed to flee. If I have 20 capital ships in a fleet, its ok if 1 of them goes off and flees instead of dying trying to add an extra bit of damage when the ship itself is more valuable. Thats just my opinion, but I'm not interested in winning Pyrrhic victories as it's usually more important in the long run to have less of a drain on your economy than win a skirmish, wars are obviously won at the strategic and logistical level in this game not the individual encounter. Maybe consider setting capital ships to never flee and the smaller ships to flee? Because if youre using them past the beginning of the game like the AI would be doing, ships smaller than capital will just be going on straight suicide missions. I think that's counterproductive towards the AI. If you want to say that the capital ships would win a battle but flee instead I understand that and maybe set them to never. This is aimed at the AI because as a human (and as per your recommendation) you don't really build the small ships later in the game, but the AI does. So to have a drain on the ai's economy of constantly replacing suicide destroyers et all might hurt in the long run. I understand you don't have a lot of flexibility here, early in the game you might want to have them set at 'never' to flee, but as the capital ships come to play fleeing is better, you can only pick one, I'd pick fleeing for the smaller ships.

As per the colonization tech, I played on a larger game on normal difficulty normal research using the mod. By the time the AI went to research (i left it on automated) the final colonization tech there is no way there could have been any colonizable planets left in the galaxy. I don't think the 30 to 100m increase warrants being the last in a long tech line. The double growth rate is very powerful (if it works) so I get your reasoning there and I typically only try to research it for my home planet type as at least in the game i played you only really get one shot at one. The thing is that terraforming is kinda necessary as well though because you will undoubtedly have some disasters and what have you.

How about this. Double growth rate (if it works) is indeed very very powerful. It boosts your economy which drives everything in the game. Once you're able to tax planets is when things really get going. Halving the time to max pop is great. Terraforming is a tech that you generally want. The last tech is useless as even if you totally beelined it in a huge galaxy I don't really know if there would be anything left to colonize and that's kinda a fringe case. Plus you'd be sacrificing literally everything else in that tree. Now I'm not totally sure but starting at 100m vs 30 mil might actually more than double your growth rate for a new colony I don't feel like doing math. So it's powerful but pretty useless overall. What if you took that final colonization tech, moved it in front of the doubled growth ones, and if necessary dropped it from like 100m pop to 60m pop or something like that AND gave it terraform? That gives you a chance to grab terraforming and the bigger starting pop, while colonies are still out there and prior to specializing in one planet type. If you think about it, wouldn't it be more logical that you're able to colonize with bigger numbers of people on any planet before you're able to double the growth rate on a specific type of planet anyway? Plus then you'd have terraforming on 1 tech instead of on 5 different ones which is kinda odd to begin with.

I'm not taking shots at you or anything, I'm just throwing around ideas based on what I've seen in my play, and this is a small community so you don't get as much feedback as you would if you were modding Total War or something like that. Let me know what you think.

[UnfriendlyBG]

oh and also, re: the double growth bug.

I'm going to assume modding isn't this flexible in the game (considering the effect is broken to begin with) but could you do something like:

Each of those adv colonization techs unlock a building that can be built for 1 credit with 0 upkeep at its respective planet type that would double the growth rate when built?

[Lycaeon]

While going through your mod files for my own custom game I noticed that the ackdarian, atuuk, and mechanoid designTemplate files were duplicated inside the mortalen designTemplate file, with possible buggy results. Is this intentional? Since the vanilla mortalen file doesn't have these duplicates I'm pretty sure it's an oversight, but I'd like to know before going ahead with my game.

[buncheesy]

Hi Icemania

I started the game after a long break with the distant worlds AI extend 1.03 release. Recently, unfortunately, due to a brain spasm while installing an ssd drive I lost my distant worlds universe install. I had however backed up my game save. I now however find that it wont load with the 1.04 release. any chance of you re-posting or providing a link to the 1.03 release as I am 50 hours in and loving it and would hate not to be able to continue?

cheers.

[Nyku]

First of all: awesome mod!

There's one question I'd like to ask though. Troop Transports have given me headache recently!

So here's my problem: I designed ships with 4 basic troop transport modules for conquering undeveloped planets. I built 6 ships with a total of 2400 troop capacity. Loading them with troops that require 200 space (I think these are called armored forces). I am having more than enough troops on my home planet to be picked up, but loading always stops at 1800/2400. That means one ship being half empy and one entirely empty. Sending these 2 ships to load troops manually did not solve the matter. Sending the entire fleet to load troops again did not work, either.

May this be an AI problem or is there a troops per fleet cap I just don't know about?
(I already tried retrofitting the ships to make clear it's not a design issue.)

[Icemania]

ORIGINAL: letmein
Hi Icemania

I started the game after a long break with the distant worlds AI extend 1.03 release. Recently, unfortunately, due to a brain spasm while installing an ssd drive I lost my distant worlds universe install. I had however backed up my game save. I now however find that it wont load with the 1.04 release. any chance of you re-posting or providing a link to the 1.03 release as I am 50 hours in and loving it and would hate not to be able to continue?

cheers.

No worries, here is a link: Extended AI Improvement Mod 1.03

Have fun!

[buncheesy]

Oh Brilliant

Just on queue! kids in bed and the lady watching tele - its evening here. Very much appreciated.[&o][&o][&o][&o][&o]

[Icemania]

ORIGINAL: Lycaeon
While going through your mod files for my own custom game I noticed that the ackdarian, atuuk, and mechanoid designTemplate files were duplicated inside the mortalen designTemplate file, with possible buggy results. Is this intentional? Since the vanilla mortalen file doesn't have these duplicates I'm pretty sure it's an oversight, but I'd like to know before going ahead with my game.

As far as I can tell it has no impact Lycaeon. Started a test game and also loaded up a save and checked the AI Mortalen designs and they look good.

My bad and I’ll ensure those files are removed in the next release to avoid any confusion.

If you want to be sure, feel free to just delete the extra folders when you play.

[Icemania]

ORIGINAL: Nyku
There's one question I'd like to ask though. Troop Transports have given me headache recently!

So here's my problem: I designed ships with 4 basic troop transport modules for conquering undeveloped planets. I built 6 ships with a total of 2400 troop capacity. Loading them with troops that require 200 space (I think these are called armored forces). I am having more than enough troops on my home planet to be picked up, but loading always stops at 1800/2400. That means one ship being half empy and one entirely empty. Sending these 2 ships to load troops manually did not solve the matter. Sending the entire fleet to load troops again did not work, either.

May this be an AI problem or is there a troops per fleet cap I just don't know about?
(I already tried retrofitting the ships to make clear it's not a design issue.)

It maybe the Troop Loadout settings. Go to the Fleets screen and have a look at Troop Loadout. In Empire Policy you can turn Troop Loadout off entirely under the Troop Recruitment section ... that's what I play and seems to work well.

[Nyku]

Thank you. I'll try as soon as I'm at home and playing

[Icemania]

ORIGINAL: UnfriendlyBG
Ok I understand your reasoning with never. All I know is I saw quite an improvement in performance when I changed to flee. If I have 20 capital ships in a fleet, its ok if 1 of them goes off and flees instead of dying trying to add an extra bit of damage when the ship itself is more valuable. Thats just my opinion, but I'm not interested in winning Pyrrhic victories as it's usually more important in the long run to have less of a drain on your economy than win a skirmish, wars are obviously won at the strategic and logistical level in this game not the individual encounter. Maybe consider setting capital ships to never flee and the smaller ships to flee? Because if youre using them past the beginning of the game like the AI would be doing, ships smaller than capital will just be going on straight suicide missions. I think that's counterproductive towards the AI. If you want to say that the capital ships would win a battle but flee instead I understand that and maybe set them to never. This is aimed at the AI because as a human (and as per your recommendation) you don't really build the small ships later in the game, but the AI does. So to have a drain on the ai's economy of constantly replacing suicide destroyers et all might hurt in the long run. I understand you don't have a lot of flexibility here, early in the game you might want to have them set at 'never' to flee, but as the capital ships come to play fleeing is better, you can only pick one, I'd pick fleeing for the smaller ships.

As per the colonization tech, I played on a larger game on normal difficulty normal research using the mod. By the time the AI went to research (i left it on automated) the final colonization tech there is no way there could have been any colonizable planets left in the galaxy. I don't think the 30 to 100m increase warrants being the last in a long tech line. The double growth rate is very powerful (if it works) so I get your reasoning there and I typically only try to research it for my home planet type as at least in the game i played you only really get one shot at one. The thing is that terraforming is kinda necessary as well though because you will undoubtedly have some disasters and what have you.

How about this. Double growth rate (if it works) is indeed very very powerful. It boosts your economy which drives everything in the game. Once you're able to tax planets is when things really get going. Halving the time to max pop is great. Terraforming is a tech that you generally want. The last tech is useless as even if you totally beelined it in a huge galaxy I don't really know if there would be anything left to colonize and that's kinda a fringe case. Plus you'd be sacrificing literally everything else in that tree. Now I'm not totally sure but starting at 100m vs 30 mil might actually more than double your growth rate for a new colony I don't feel like doing math. So it's powerful but pretty useless overall. What if you took that final colonization tech, moved it in front of the doubled growth ones, and if necessary dropped it from like 100m pop to 60m pop or something like that AND gave it terraform? That gives you a chance to grab terraforming and the bigger starting pop, while colonies are still out there and prior to specializing in one planet type. If you think about it, wouldn't it be more logical that you're able to colonize with bigger numbers of people on any planet before you're able to double the growth rate on a specific type of planet anyway? Plus then you'd have terraforming on 1 tech instead of on 5 different ones which is kinda odd to begin with.

I'm not taking shots at you or anything, I'm just throwing around ideas based on what I've seen in my play, and this is a small community so you don't get as much feedback as you would if you were modding Total War or something like that. Let me know what you think.

I certainly agree there will be times “Never Flee” is not the best outcome for the AI but again I’ve seen a lot of situations where “Fleeing at Shields at 20%” causes major problems for the AI as well. With the hybrid option you suggest, early game the fleets are smaller ships and I worry they will leave the fight far too early and have the same issues. So I’m not at all convinced that is the best option across a range of scenarios. A better option would be to see we can get the developer to provide a “Flee at Armour 50%” (but NOT when Shields are lost) option.

With respect to colonisation, I have no concern at all if the final colonisation technology is not yet done when all planets/territory is taken. To me it’s a good thing, you have to make choices, I’ve never been a fan of games where you just research everything. That said, the change you’ve proposed is a good one and I’ll consider it for a future update.

Thank you for your back-up in tech support forum for the double population growth bug, the more people that indicate they agree and keep those threads alive, the more likely it is they will be implemented.

[UnfriendlyBG]

Im recording a 2nd lets play with your mod and I rant pretty hard about the fact that there was not even an acknowledgement of a bug that shouldnt take much more than adding a "2*" somewhere in the code (if its more complicated than that then theres much much much bigger problems with the game. Hopefully they acknowledge.

Now another issue that I've run into. This is gonna sound drastic but... You might consider removing the caleph from the game all together. I randomed them and the AI does not handle them well at all. With their fighter tech it gives you a ridiculous military power which isnt necessarily true. I shouldn't have 10x's the firepower as everyone else when I have 17 ships. (I also learned it takes bases into account). So I have Boskarans (?) and AI left and right being nice to me and giving me money because Im so powerful Im assuming. The carriers are no doubt powerful, but they aren't as powerful as the firepower makes them seem and I think the AI just doesnt handle it well. I think any game that the caleph are in will be strange because it doesnt seem like anyone will attack them because of their falsely inflated firepower, and people will be offering them stuff diplomatically that they really shouldnt. This is 100% a fault of the base game and not yours, the creator needed to fudge those firepowernumbers a little bit when fighters are involved.

Again this is an AI mod so I feel that race makes the AI not act correctly. This is a drastic suggestion, but from what ive seen in this 2nd lets play it is pretty broken. The most evil race in the galaxy is giving me money when I had 8 ships because my military power dwarfed every body due to my fighters. I was a paper tiger.

Thank you for considering my colonization ideas, and hey if the double growth is broken anyway, starting with more people at a planet seems like a good workaround until it is fixed. Also it isn't about researching everything. I'm saying its about research that is effectively worthless. Best case scenario you get limited use out of that final colonization tech if you only work towards it and sacrifice the rest of the tree. Thats not really a choice its more of just a non worthwhile choice.