HQs on the defensive

[alexvand]

I've always struggled with how to use HQs well when on the defensive.

I find it true anywhere but most obvious when playing as the Germans when they are withdrawing from Russia. The HQs are supply sources and so must be protected. I end up trying to keep them out of the line of combat, or in hexes that can only be attacked from one hex, and I always want them face up so that they can keep moving and not get cut off. So I put them in forests etc.. to protect from ground strikes.

But I almost always end up reaching the end of the turn with their re-org points unused. Which feels like I've wasted resources somehow.

So do any of you have advice on how best to use HQs when you are on the defensive? (As any power anywhere.)

[AlbertN]

Keep in mind though a HQ flipped is also oil-costy!

I have until now rarely found myself using HQs on the defensive unless they were already in a possibly half compromised situation.
The main risk is in fact that the HQ then goes flipped and is pinned on the spot and if the enemy got their attack as they desired, you probably want to move that HQ out of the way!

[bo]

ORIGINAL: Cohen

Keep in mind though a HQ flipped is also oil-costy!

I have until now rarely found myself using HQs on the defensive unless they were already in a possibly half compromised situation.
The main risk is in fact that the HQ then goes flipped and is pinned on the spot and if the enemy got their attack as they desired, you probably want to move that HQ out of the way!

I agree 110% [;)] if it matters [:(]

Bo

[Ur_Vile_WEdge]

I mean, a lot of it depends on how mobile the front is. What you absolutely cannot afford is to flip Zhukov to reorg some guys, and the German attack continues, driving the lines past wherever he is, and then killing him while he's face down and helpless.

So yes, you are probably going to be ending the turn with "excess" capacity, because the risk of overcommitting a HQ is too great. Usually when I do use them, it is for reorg though, especially if I think a breakthrough is either unlikely or can be contained. Higher reorg HQs are better for this, since they can do it from further away.


Unfortunately, the biggest skill involved is guaging how much longer the turn is likely to last, which is tricky at best. But from your OP, I don't think you're really doing anything wrong.

[Centuur]

It depends on how stable your front is, how long you expect that the turn will last and how long you expect it will take for the enemy to break the line.

For example: Zhukov in the AAR I'm doing. There is quite a stable line in front of him, which can hold the moment the two artilly corps are reorganised by him. If I didn't use him at that moment, the front would have collapsed. So I moved him as far away as possible but still make sure he could reorganise those two divisions. Now, there were still reserves available to fill gaps in the frontlines at that moment and there was still room for the frontline to retreat with Zhukov disorganised in the rear.

If Germany would have had another two impulses in the turn, things would have become very dangerous for Zhukov...

Normally, any HQ in or directly behind enemy frontlines, shouldn't get disorganised. The exception is, when the HQ is in a very good defensive position (such as Koniev is, in my AAR). He could give HQ support (albeit without succes, since the Axis rolled high again), because he knows that the hex he is in will be defended with over 20 factors and no enemy units can easily outflank him in the mountains...

So it depends on the situation the front is in, the terrain, the weather, turn length and of course the power the other side has available at the frontlines...

But it is always something which you will do wrong at one time or another. Look at the way Timoshenko was temporarily put out of action in the same AAR. A Stuka flies by and that's the end of things for him. War is a risky affair...

[Shannon V. OKeets]

One small tidbit I'll add here is that the USSR gets a lot of reserves during the first turn of Germany's Barbarossa attack. Since the reserves arrive disorganized, having an HQ in the rear specifically to reorganize a bunch of the reserve units and send them to the front is oftentimes worthwhile.

[brian brian]

the Russians can profit in 1941 by having all their HQs re-org Reserves and then using their O-Chit to re-org the HQs so they can escape

but most players aren't that great at thinking defensively, and will attempt some more show-boat tactic with the Offensive Chit

when on the defensive, use your Air Missions to keep Fighter cover over your HQs. Taking 30% Ground Strikes on enemy spearheads or HQs is a far less useful use of an air mission, but far more common.

[Ur_Vile_WEdge]

I admit, I'm not crazy about the reorg plus o-chit on the first turn of barb. I usually do a reorg with Zhukov at the very least, and often Yeremenko, but I try to keep the O-chit in reserve.

It's not so much to showboat. But that O-chit forces the Germans to advance a little more cautiously, or risk a counterattack if they overextend. Especially if you're playing with GBA. You might never get such an attack, but holding on to the O-Chit forces the Germans to act as if you have one ready, and that threat is enormously powerful for your defense.

[Centuur]

It all depends on the situation. I certainly won't use that chit for reorganisation of the HQ's in the first turn of war. At that moment, normally, things should not be desperate. The desperation should come in the second turn of war with Germany. That is: if you haven't been able to save your army by being at war with Japan or Italy at that moment (and especially the latter one is quite expensive on US entry)...

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Ur_Vile_WEdge

I admit, I'm not crazy about the reorg plus o-chit on the first turn of barb. I usually do a reorg with Zhukov at the very least, and often Yeremenko, but I try to keep the O-chit in reserve.

It's not so much to showboat. But that O-chit forces the Germans to advance a little more cautiously, or risk a counterattack if they overextend. Especially if you're playing with GBA. You might never get such an attack, but holding on to the O-Chit forces the Germans to act as if you have one ready, and that threat is enormously powerful for your defense.

One of my favorite chess stories is about a grandmaster one-on-one tournament where they agreed to not smoke cigars (one of them couldn't stand cigar smoke). The smoker showed up at every game with an unlit cigar in hand, which quite unnerved his opponent. A well known chess adage is: "the threat to act is more effective that the act itself."

[brian brian]

note I just suggested the Soviets CAN use the chit to put up a stronger defense on the first turn. for example if the Germans are starting in to a 6th impulse and about to reach the dis-organized Soviet HQ. Also the Soviets have to consider how to respond to a very serious Barbarossa - the kind featuring 8+ Axis HQ and 6+ Italian aircraft. The 2nd turn is the most dangerous, but the end of the 1st turn creates the conditions of the 2nd turn.

It can be better to use the Soviet chit on a counter-attack at times. The GBA rule would make that more true. But as the Germans, I would welcome a Soviet attack risk in most cases. Particularly against two panzer corps in open terrain. One bad Allied attack before 1942 can frequently result in the best Axis progress moving forward.

[brian brian]

usually a bigger problem in a retreat is keeping your air force intact...