H2H - Wishlist

[Per-Anders Westin]

Originally posted by Panzer Leo
I also got inspired by the discussion on improving the original OOBs and tested now the "*" - enemy presence issue...

It showed very clearly, that there is a pretty easy way of misusing this feature beyond it's intention and it does influence PBEM games a lot...as H2H is focused on human vs human play, I decided to disable this feature in general - that means there won't be any "*" shown at all. The "#", meaning this unit has been fired upon recently remains.

This is great news! I agree that it's pretty easy to missuse this feature, and as Lars writes it makes SPWAW/H2H too "gamey".

Thank you Panzer Leo, and keep up the good work!
/P-A

[Irinami]

That * is somewhat supported with current US field manuals. (For the life of me I can't find it again, but I am 10% positive that it is in them.) There is a passage in, I believe, a section about taking out sentries and/or about general reconnaisance, which warns the soldier not to stare at their target because in some inexplicable way we seem to be able to sense when someone is looking at us for a long time.

That said, I somehow doubt our fifth-and-a-half sense is very effective at 400 meters. So I say let the * go, as you have.

[chief]

Leo: check this thread, particularly pg3, showthread.php?s=&postid=400692#post400692

it may be of value if you haven't already seen it.

Resp. Chief

[Alby]

Giving this a bump, havnt heard anything on H2H for some time

[Panzer Leo]

Originally posted by Alby
Giving this a bump, havnt heard anything on H2H for some time

If you don't hear from us, it means we don't have time to write 'cause we're working every minute on it

Status:

all major changes made...only small error corrections and fine tuning going on, except for the graphics department...the guys keep on rotating at full speed

[Squirmer]

Don't know if this has already been discussed. In the current version some of the German Inf-AT weapons have a HE Pen value of 222. This number should go in the AP Pen value to re-direct the AP ammo to the HEAT slot.

I think ... ?

[Panzer Leo]

Originally posted by Squirmer
Don't know if this has already been discussed. In the current version some of the German Inf-AT weapons have a HE Pen value of 222. This number should go in the AP Pen value to re-direct the AP ammo to the HEAT slot.

I think ... ?

Nope, it's actually meant this way. There was no HE round for PzSchreck and PzFaust, but the HEAT round was so effective against personel, that it was used on a regular base against infantry. To keep ammo loads realistic, I decided to use the 222 and make the HE rounds behave like HEAT once they strike armor. This method has only one setback: the HE rounds are not effected by skirts. This is why Bazookas still have rounds without the 222, as the Germans are almost the only ones to use skirts and the Bazooka would kill tanks it couldn't kill. But it also gets much higher ammo loads in return...

[m10bob]

How about a slot for the observation aircraft?...(Storch,L5,etc...?)

[Gallo Rojo]

Originally posted by m10bob
How about a slot for the observation aircraft?...(Storch,L5,etc...?)

That would be great!

[Gallo Rojo]

Hey Leo!

two small questions:

I read that there will be some changes in the Soviet OOB ...

1) I whish that the player can choose the MBT on which he will mount the Tankodesantiniskys as it's now ... I really hate how it is in SPWaW v7.1 where you only can pick the T-34m41E as a riding tank for the tank-desant

2) Do you plan to modify the prices of some Soviet Armor? I hope not! I like the concept of relate the units price to its rarity factor to luring the player into realistic purchases that you have implemented in SPH2H. Regarding Soviet Armor, although some of them are really cheap (as for example the SU-85) I like the way as they are because it produces very realistic outcomes.

best,

Gallo Rojo

[Panzer Leo]

Originally posted by Gallo Rojo
Hey Leo!

two small questions:

I read that there will be some changes in the Soviet OOB ...

1) I whish that the player can choose the MBT on which he will mount the Tankodesantiniskys as it's now ... I really hate how it is in SPWaW v7.1 where you only can pick the T-34m41E as a riding tank for the tank-desant

2) Do you plan to modify the prices of some Soviet Armor? I hope not! I like the concept of relate the units price to its rarity factor to luring the player into realistic purchases that you have implemented in SPH2H. Regarding Soviet Armor, although some of them are really cheap (as for example the SU-85) I like the way as they are because it produces very realistic outcomes.

best,

Gallo Rojo

1) was one of the first things to be changed...

2) No, prices will stay about the same for the Russians...



Aerial recon will not be available, as a Battailon / Regiment commander did not have access to such goodies like observer planes. They would lead to misuse and unrealistic "godseyes" flying around...sorry

[VikingNo2]

I noticed that the later T-34 is cheaper than the earlier model, eventhough the later has better fire control, is that correct ?

[Gallo Rojo]

Originally posted by VikingNo2
I noticed that the later T-34 is cheaper than the earlier model, eventhough the later has better fire control, is that correct ?

I think that you are talking about T-34m43 (later) that is cheaper than T-34m42 (earlyer).
Leo will tell better, but I think that this is related with one of that I said in my previous post: SPH2H links prices with rarity to lure players into historical purchases. T-34m43 was a very comon tank and produced in larger numbers than T-34m42.
Aditionaly, T-34m42 although have poorer fire control has better armor protection ... I think, but I'm not sure, that this is because the T-34m42 in current SPH2H version represents an up-armored (thus "rare") version of T-34m42 tank (which other whise was pretty much the same tank than T-34m41 except for improvenments in the gear box, engine, and fire control system).

So T-34m42 was an better armored and "rare" tank, and that why it is more expensive than T-34m43

Notice also that there are two T-34m43: an earlyer model that has not APCR ammo (cost $75) and a latter model that has APCR and is more expensive (cost $88).

The more expensive versions T-34m42 and T-34E-m41 are the uper-armored versions: take a look to the armor and you will see that T-34m42 has the best lateral armor (60 on the chasis) for any T-34 version.

best,

Gallo

[Gallo Rojo]

Originally posted by Panzer Leo
1) was one of the first things to be changed...

Originally posted by Panzer Leo
2) No, prices will stay about the same for the Russians...

Note: I really like Russians prices are modeled in SPH2H (and how Red Army is modelede in general) because it allows you to fight with the Soviets as they fought during the war.

In SPH2H Soviets are much more poor trained than Germans, their tanks are fairly good although not excelent ... but they are really cheap!
So you can send a massive wave of steel against the Germans!

I usually need to spend 3 x T-34m43 for every single Tiger I kill ... but that is how it was!

[Gary Tatro]

I think I might have found a major bug. While playing a PBEM game in H2H one of my Indian Commando squads infilltrated on top of a Italian Weapons depot with a bunch of 75mm artillary pieces in the same hex. Very excited I clicked on my commando and went to the target screen (hit T) and the game crashed to desk top. Went back into the game and tried it again ( I had lost all of my moves that I had made previously). I did the same exact thing. Crash to desk top. I tried it one more time and it did the same exact thing. Crash to desk top. I used the commando by itself without going to the traget screen and it worked fine. The ammo depot blew up nicely killing everything in it including the commando squad but that was a small price to pay. I will try to post the ziped game and send you the password, if I still have it.

[Panzer Leo]

Originally posted by Gary Tatro
I think I might have found a major bug. While playing a PBEM game in H2H one of my Indian Commando squads infilltrated on top of a Italian Weapons depot with a bunch of 75mm artillary pieces in the same hex. Very excited I clicked on my commando and went to the target screen (hit T) and the game crashed to desk top. Went back into the game and tried it again ( I had lost all of my moves that I had made previously). I did the same exact thing. Crash to desk top. I tried it one more time and it did the same exact thing. Crash to desk top. I used the commando by itself without going to the traget screen and it worked fine. The ammo depot blew up nicely killing everything in it including the commando squad but that was a small price to pay. I will try to post the ziped game and send you the password, if I still have it.

This is very unlikely to be a H2H related bug, but rather an original glitch in the SPWAW coding...means I can't do anything about it...these are things we have to live with, but as it also is a very rare and not common situation, it shouldn't be a major thread to game play...

Gallo Rojo is correct with his explanation of the T-34 m42/43 costs, it's because of the armor mainly and the rarity. The T-34s underwent quite some noteworthy changes in the patch. The variants will be:

m40
m41
m41E the only uparmored variant
m42 with regular armor and Mickey Mouse turret
m43 differing from m42 mainly in the use of the better BR-350B round (penetration of 91mm instead of 84mm)
m43 with APCR ammo
85mm m43 with D-5 gun and two men turret
85mm m44 with Zis-S 53 gun and APCR

After quite some research I came to the conclusion, that these models represent the T-34 family the best and give players the most historical choices...the 8 variants come with 6 different icons and all are available for Tankodesantniki formations.

[Gallo Rojo]

Originally posted by Panzer Leo
Gallo Rojo is correct with his explanation of the T-34 m42/43 costs, it's because of the armor mainly and the rarity. The T-34s underwent quite some noteworthy changes in the patch. The variants will be:

m40
m41
m41E the only uparmored variant
m42 with regular armor and Mickey Mouse turret
m43 differing from m42 mainly in the use of the better BR-350B round (penetration of 91mm instead of 84mm)
m43 with APCR ammo
85mm m43 with D-5 gun and two men turret
85mm m44 with Zis-S 53 gun and APCR

After quite some research I came to the conclusion, that these models represent the T-34 family the best and give players the most historical choices...the 8 variants come with 6 different icons and all are available for Tankodesantniki formations.

Man, I'm start thinking that I love you

I always wonder why were one T-34m41 and one T-34m42 with the same turret given that they were almost the same tank!
I always thought that all what we needed to be realistic was one m41 model (may be with a little improvement in the fire control) and one m41E upper-armored ... and that's all! T-34m41 and T-34m42 were almost the same tank! Why having two!

Three questions and one idea

First question:
Which T-34 models will use the same icon? (I mean, if you have 6 icons and 8 versions, therefore at leas two models must use the same icon)

The idea:
As T-34m42 and T-34m43 will all have the hexagonal “mikey mouse” turret … could be possible to introducing different icons for the m42 and m43 with BR-350B and the m43 with APCR? Just for can differentiate them at one sigh...

I have been thinking that T-34m42/43 could have the two rectangular external fuel tanks on the rear; which was the most usual external fuel tanks on late 1942 and early 1943 carried by T-34.

Second question:
Can you please tell me which will be the fire control and range finder for each model? and may be the prices? (I'm promoting the new H2H version whiting the Spanish speaker players... and inside information is mostly welcomed ... this new about a T-34 having an improved penetration performance will be very well welcomed among many of the Spanish-speakers-red-army-fans).

Third question:
Which will be the differences in term of performance between T-34/85m43 and T-34/85m44? I guess that T-34/85m43 may have poorer penetration capacity (given that the D-5 wasn’t as good as the Zis-S 53) and that it may have a lower ROF (given the two men turret).
And finally: will they have different icons? As far as I remember the T-34/85m43 had a two hatches turret while the T-34/85m44 had one hatch and a cupola (like the SU-100 cupola). But I can be wrong about that … my speciality is the T-34/76 not the T-34/85 (the real New Soviet Men can deal with Tigers with the 76mm gun, only cowards ask for the 85mm)

[Panzer Leo]

Originally posted by Gallo Rojo
Man, I'm start thinking that I love you

I always wonder why were one T-34m41 and one T-34m42 with the same turret given that they were almost the same tank!
I always thought that all what we needed to be realistic was one m41 model (may be with a little improvement in the fire control) and one m41E upper-armored ... and that's all! T-34m41 and T-34m42 were almost the same tank! Why having two!

Three questions and one idea

First question:
Which T-34 models will use the same icon? (I mean, if you have 6 icons and 8 versions, therefore at leas two models must use the same icon)

The idea:
As T-34m42 and T-34m43 will all have the hexagonal “mikey mouse” turret … could be possible to introducing different icons for the m42 and m43 with BR-350B and the m43 with APCR? Just for can differentiate them at one sigh...

I have been thinking that T-34m42/43 could have the two rectangular external fuel tanks on the rear; which was the most usual external fuel tanks on late 1942 and early 1943 carried by T-34.

Second question:
Can you please tell me which will be the fire control and range finder for each model? and may be the prices? (I'm promoting the new H2H version whiting the Spanish speaker players... and inside information is mostly welcomed ... this new about a T-34 having an improved penetration performance will be very well welcomed among many of the Spanish-speakers-red-army-fans).

Third question:
Which will be the differences in term of performance between T-34/85m43 and T-34/85m44? I guess that T-34/85m43 may have poorer penetration capacity (given that the D-5 wasn’t as good as the Zis-S 53) and that it may have a lower ROF (given the two men turret).
And finally: will they have different icons? As far as I remember the T-34/85m43 had a two hatches turret while the T-34/85m44 had one hatch and a cupola (like the SU-100 cupola). But I can be wrong about that … my speciality is the T-34/76 not the T-34/85 (the real New Soviet Men can deal with Tigers with the 76mm gun, only cowards ask for the 85mm)

The m42 and m43 use the same icons (with fuel tanks) and I got another one without...if I find an open slot, I will use it...

m40 FC2RF2 cost64
m41 3/3 69
m41E 3/3 102
m42 4/3 73
m43 4/4 75 (82 with APCR)
85m43 5/4 93
85m44 5/4 97

the 85mm use different icons, both had a cuppola (the m43 more to the front of the turret). The gun of m43 is weaker and ROF only 4 instead of 5 on the m44.

As you seem to have some T-34 experts there (or maybe you know yourself), you might be able to help me on this one:

I know, that a smoke round for the F-34 gun existed and was produced, but how common was it for T-34s to use and carry smoke rounds compared to Western Allies (Shermans) or German tanks (usually had a base load of 2-4 rounds) also taking into account some changes over the war years ?

[Gallo Rojo]

Originally posted by Panzer Leo

I know, that a smoke round for the F-34 gun existed and was produced, but how common was it for T-34s to use and carry smoke rounds compared to Western Allies (Shermans) or German tanks (usually had a base load of 2-4 rounds) also taking into account some changes over the war years ?

Uhmmm that's a good question ...
As far as I know rarely employed the Soviets smoke ammo on the T-34.
I know that they use to give smoke ammo to the T-34 if they will go to support a friendly infantry assault against enemy infantery.
So I guess that whether if they would carry smoke ammo greately depend on the type of mission.

SPWaW 7.1 gives smoke only to the T-34Em41, which is the only to whom Tankodesantiniskys can be attached. So I guess that is assuming that only T-34s which its major roll will be support infantry are the ones that carries smoke ammo.

I think that this is a fairly good solution (giving the limitations of the game, i.e. the player can't pick the ammo that he wants).

I think that at least one version of T-34 must have smoke ammo (not many rounds, but 2 at least).

I sent an email to a couple of friends asking you question and also posted on the Russian Battle Field Forum.

I let you know as soon as I have any ansewer.

A couple more questions by mi side:
First: On what base do the T-34/76 have diferent range-finder/fire-control ratios? ... I know that hexagonal turret of T-34m42/43 and m43 was better than the previous one and the gun was more stable with this turret ... But I never knew why T-34m41 and T-34m42 had different fire-control/range-finder valudes ... I guess that may be related to improvments in cross country performance (as far as I remember the m42 incorporated more rubber rimed wheels or something like this (although I know that this depended a big sort about the avaiability and the particular factory where the tank was built) ... was because of that?

Second question:
I read that late on the war Tigres carried a few HEAT ammo to deal with heavy soviet tanks (JS serie), but nor SPWaW neither SPH2H does Tigres carry any HEAT ammo ... Do you ever considern about add a couple of HEAT rounds for Tigre I (Late)?

best,

Gallo Rojo

[Panzer Leo]

Originally posted by Gallo Rojo
Uhmmm that's a good question ...
As far as I know rarely employed the Soviets smoke ammo on the T-34.
I know that they use to give smoke ammo to the T-34 if they will go to support a friendly infantry assault against enemy infantery.
So I guess that whether if they would carry smoke ammo greately depend on the type of mission.

SPWaW 7.1 gives smoke only to the T-34Em41, which is the only to whom Tankodesantiniskys can be attached. So I guess that is assuming that only T-34s which its major roll will be support infantry are the ones that carries smoke ammo.

I think that this is a fairly good solution (giving the limitations of the game, i.e. the player can't pick the ammo that he wants).

I think that at least one version of T-34 must have smoke ammo (not many rounds, but 2 at least).

I sent an email to a couple of friends asking you question and also posted on the Russian Battle Field Forum.

I let you know as soon as I have any ansewer.

A couple more questions by mi side:
First: On what base do the T-34/76 have diferent range-finder/fire-control ratios? ... I know that hexagonal turret of T-34m42/43 and m43 was better than the previous one and the gun was more stable with this turret ... But I never knew why T-34m41 and T-34m42 had different fire-control/range-finder valudes ... I guess that may be related to improvments in cross country performance (as far as I remember the m42 incorporated more rubber rimed wheels or something like this (although I know that this depended a big sort about the avaiability and the particular factory where the tank was built) ... was because of that?

Second question:
I read that late on the war Tigres carried a few HEAT ammo to deal with heavy soviet tanks (JS serie), but nor SPWaW neither SPH2H does Tigres carry any HEAT ammo ... Do you ever considern about add a couple of HEAT rounds for Tigre I (Late)?

best,

Gallo Rojo

The FC/RF values are taken from the original 7.1 and I would say your assumptions why they are that way come pretty close to what Paul and the guys had in mind when modeling them...at least it makes sense to me
The m42 I use is the later one with the hexagonal turret, being therefore almost identical with the m43 and not the m41 (I think optics improved on later models...).

The HEAT rounds...well, as far as I know, they were not really there for use against heavy Russian tanks. They were not powerfull enough and also were carried right from the start, not only later in the war. I would assume they carried a few rounds because they could be used vs infantry and armor alike (although being not as efficient as the HE or AP for it's specific task).
The problem is, that this dual purpose role cannot be modeled by SPWAW...so I left them out...