[WAD] Air launched decoys

[mrfeizhu]

Air launched decoys will launch and just fly around to the point you send them too. But the hostile forces have no interest in them. I know AI needs some work of what they fire on, will this problem be addressed

[navwarcol]

I concur in this. I think it was mentioned in the "cost" thread as well. I am not sure if there is an easy fix as Harpoon always got it wrong as well, after years even. The other side IDs them by radar as a decoy, and hence will not fire. They should be IDed as fighter sized contacts, unable to ID as anything other than a plane, until you get a visual. This forces the enemy side to deal with them, at least briefly before positively IDing them. I tried in Harpoon database to add "fighter type" sensors etc to them also, never found a way to make it work. I think that CMANO will end up solving it, but they are basically a waste-loadout in the current status.

[CV32]

I haven't had any issues with the decoys (TALD/ITALD, specifically).

Launch on bearing only attacks, and the enemy air defenses are engaging them.

If and when they identified as decoys, maybe the AI stops shooting, but as far as I can tell, my only instance of this was when the AI had run out of missiles to shoot.

[navwarcol]

Brad, I have not been able to get that result. Perhaps just bad luck? I will try again with this newest build.

[Dimitris]

I'm pretty sure we fixed this one a while ago. Anyone having a problem with the current build please post a save!

[Dimitris]

Any save ?

[JCR]

I just tested it and it seemed to work.
Decoys were registered as BOGIE, not VAMPIRE
And engaged by air defenses

[navwarcol]

Concur with JCR above. Had not tried the TALD loadouts since the second beta and just never saw it as one of the "fixed" items, sorry D. Yes, it works well in this current build. Thanks guys, been a pet peeve in 'poon... didn't want it to become one here [:D]

[nocacounsel]

In v1.06 (Build 624) I can't seem to get the AI to engage my TALDs. Creating a blank scenario, the AI classifies them as Bogies, indeed, but they're deemed of an unknown class and unknown side and presumably aren't engaged for this reason (same result as in the scenario I was playing when I switched sides).

Anyone else having an issue at this point getting the TALDs to act as a 'missile sponge'?

[mikmykWS]

Air launched decoys currently work fine for human players.

Your test scenario won't work for couple of reasons.

You BOL point is well short of the target so well out of parameters to be identified and engaged. You need to shoot these later and path them by the target.
The Slava has no orders to shoot at unidentified targets and will wait for an ID which it will never get with where you placed to Decoys. You can change the ROE to let it shoot at unidentified targets or an an exclusion zone around the ship which ID's aircraft that enter as hostile.

AI usage of these is slated for some time in the future.

Thanks!

Mike

[nocacounsel]

Thanks for the explanation, Mike! I'm very glad it's me and not the game. I'll work on getting it right and see if Baloogan has a tutorial on using the decoys. If anyone has anything else to help guide me with decoy use, I'd be most appreciative. Thanks, all!

[nocacounsel]

Playing around some more I see I can get the Slava to engage the TALDs via the methods you suggest, Mike, but both require that I edit a scenario if the author hasn't setup this exclusion zone around the ship or has the AI set to engage unidentified targets (the latter being somewhat unreasonable in many contexts), correct?

Am I understanding things correctly in that the game doesn't identify TALDs as vampires/inbound missiles and always recognizes them as unidentified bogeys/aircraft? This is true to life, right? (my first mistake was believing TALDs were designed to help hide the true offensive weapons inbound to the target)

Everything that is said about the TALD applies to the ADM-160 MALD, right? Is there any plan to implement the Signature Augmentation Subsystem that is present on the MALD (well, 160A at least) whereby the MALD can give further EM radiation/data to mimic a particular aircraft/threat?

Thanks for fielding these questions!

[mikmykWS]

ORIGINAL: phatstar

Playing around some more I see I can get the Slava to engage the TALDs via the methods you suggest, Mike, but both require that I edit a scenario if the author hasn't setup this exclusion zone around the ship or has the AI set to engage unidentified targets (the latter being somewhat unreasonable in many contexts), correct?

Yes scenario authors should do this although the coming WRA's should give them further parameters to work with. Authors can choose to use this or not.I did use the exclusion zones in Duelists and it prevents scout aircraft from getting to close which I think is what would happen in real life. I think it was worth the extra clicks. In terms of the shoot at everything ROE you're correct in that it shouldn't be used in all cases. That is why we created the exclusion zones though[:)]

Am I understanding things correctly in that the game doesn't identify TALDs as vampires/inbound missiles and always recognizes them as unidentified bogeys/aircraft? This is true to life, right? (my first mistake was believing TALDs were designed to help hide the true offensive weapons inbound to the target)

Why do you think TALDS/MALDS should always look like missiles on radar?

These platforms are designed to have profiles that look like things and its not always missiles. If we did that than the AI would fall for it everytime which isn't great/fair/etc .We model them by allowing players to program in the rules of engagement that allow them to shoot based on observations and parameters rather than just always shooting which is probably closer to reality.

Everything that is said about the TALD applies to the ADM-160 MALD, right? Is there any plan to implement the Signature Augmentation Subsystem that is present on the MALD (well, 160A at least) whereby the MALD can give further EM radiation/data to mimic a particular aircraft/threat?

Thanks for fielding these questions!

They're all different and we are trying our best to model their individual capabilities.

I don't think we'll ever get to the point of saying "make this look like a B-52/F-16/SU-25 etc" however just having ROE's that allow defenders to shoot and not shoot based on some key observations and rules of engagement is a million miles ahead of anything else out there. Course we could change our minds entirely and know we have the skills to make it happen if we felt there was a big win for the players involved. Right now. It can wait.


Thanks for writing in.

Mike

[nocacounsel]

A sound analysis and a million miles, indeed, Mike.

That helps a ton; thank you for the thorough explanation! Duelist is now next on my list.