Request: GBU drop altitude

[jarraya]

In the game some GBUs can only be dropped from 10,000 ft or above. However, in reality they can be dropped from lower and can also lofted to target, meaning that range can be extended from low altitude.

Request to reduce the min launch altitude for all GBUs.


http://www.military.cz/usa/air/in_servi ... way_en.htm
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/smart/jp3_09_1.pdf

[Primarchx]

Ideally air-dropped weapons that have an altitude/range relationship should have variable ranges based on their release altitude. For now I plan accordingly.

[mikmykWS]

Yeah the flight profile sets a default value but you can manually adjust to anything in between the drop parameters pretty easily. We may add other profiles in the future that make sense but in this case most modern LGB drops have been from higher altitudes to keep them out of AAA, Shorad SAM system range which for the most part have a low ceiling.

Mike

[jarraya]

ORIGINAL: mikmyk

Yeah the flight profile sets a default value but you can manually adjust to anything in between the drop parameters pretty easily. We may add other profiles in the future that make sense but in this case most modern LGB drops have been from higher altitudes to keep them out of AAA, Shorad SAM system range which for the most part have a low ceiling.

Mike

Sorry Mike, not sure I follow. Can I drop an LGB from, say, 5000ft?

[mikmykWS]

Sure 5000 ft should fall with most lgb release parameters unless you've got clouds below you.


Mike

[RoccoNZ]

ORIGINAL: mikmyk

Sure 5000 ft should fall with most lgb release parameters unless you've got clouds below you.


Mike

Is that deliberate? I tried to keep my bomber above the clouds to release, and had a designator-equipped drone below the cloud base. I figured the drone could lase while the bomber dropped from stand-off altitude. No dice.

[Dimitris]

ORIGINAL: RoccoNZ

ORIGINAL: mikmyk

Sure 5000 ft should fall with most lgb release parameters unless you've got clouds below you.

Mike

Is that deliberate? I tried to keep my bomber above the clouds to release, and had a designator-equipped drone below the cloud base. I figured the drone could lase while the bomber dropped from stand-off altitude. No dice.

Depends on the bomb. Paveway-I/II and Co. are SALH all the way, so the bomb must have its target painted from the moment of release or else no go. Paveway-III and friends require painting only in the last seconds so you can do what you describe.

EDIT: No, you cannot. One of the bugs raised by players has been that aircraft "launch and leave" partial-SALH weapons like Hellfire (and Paveway-III) which creates problems. So we changed it so that even with partial-SALH weapons you _must_ have a lock at launch. So drop under the clouds.

[mikmykWS]

This is splitting hairs though. If the weather sucks drop a GPS guided weapon or dual mode.

Mike

[jarraya]

Can't drop below 10,000 ft. Is this a DB change that is needed?

[mikmykWS]

Ah looks like you found one that wasn't[:)] Ok will adjust it next update to give you a little more leeway.

Mike

[RoryAndersonCDT]

I think the penetrator warhead on the BLU-109 needs to be dropped from at least a medium alt to get the kinetic power to penetrate deep.

[jarraya]

ORIGINAL: Baloogan

I think the penetrator warhead on the BLU-109 needs to be dropped from at least a medium alt to get the kinetic power to penetrate deep.

Baloogan is it possible to get an export from your DB for all the GBUs? I've manually gone through most of them and the majority have a 3048m drop altitude.

[Primarchx]

I don't know of many LGBs in DB3k that drop from less than 10k' AGL. I agree with Mike that current doctrine is to fly above short ranged air defenses to utilize PGMs. This wasn't always the case (European Central Front) and there has been significant work on LGBs that can be used from low level or loft, some of which are in the game. However CMANO isn't set up for the nuances of employing these weapons realistically from low level as they have fixed ranges regardless of altitude - it's equally not representational to use an LGB from low altitude and get its' full range, either.

For now I'm content to use them as modeled and knowing the Command team we'll be seeing something on this in the future!

[jarraya]

ORIGINAL: Primarchx

I don't know of many LGBs in DB3k that drop from less than 10k' AGL. I agree with Mike that current doctrine is to fly above short ranged air defenses to utilize PGMs. This wasn't always the case (European Central Front) and there has been significant work on LGBs that can be used from low level or loft, some of which are in the game. However CMANO isn't set up for the nuances of employing these weapons realistically from low level as they have fixed ranges regardless of altitude - it's equally not representational to use an LGB from low altitude and get its' full range, either.

For now I'm content to use them as modeled and knowing the Command team we'll be seeing something on this in the future!

Prikarchx would you employ them any differently if you could drop them from a lower altitude?

[hellfish6]

My LGB frustration comes from that 10'k altitude too. Often you'll find clouds at 10'k - especially in older scenarios (there's one Red Flag scenario that I remember this happening to me in). Drop one foot in altitude and the LGB won't drop at all. I wish there was a kind of 'fuzzy' place, either with the clouds or with the drop altitude, to help in these situations.

[mikmykWS]

In most cases you'd toss bomb them which is extremely different parameter all together because at a certain point the plane needs to rise and release the bomb.

Anyways we'll get to these in the future. Try having fun with the game for now.

Thanks!

Mike

[mikmykWS]

ORIGINAL: hellfish6

My LGB frustration comes from that 10'k altitude too. Often you'll find clouds at 10'k - especially in older scenarios (there's one Red Flag scenario that I remember this happening to me in). Drop one foot in altitude and the LGB won't drop at all. I wish there was a kind of 'fuzzy' place, either with the clouds or with the drop altitude, to help in these situations.

If you're manually controlling the aircraft which is where those issues mostly appear your responsible to get the aircraft in the correct parameters for launch. Our game AI can't be built around correcting players errors. You're off 1 ft...Common how'd that happen? Really...

Mike

[hellfish6]

ORIGINAL: mikmyk

ORIGINAL: hellfish6

My LGB frustration comes from that 10'k altitude too. Often you'll find clouds at 10'k - especially in older scenarios (there's one Red Flag scenario that I remember this happening to me in). Drop one foot in altitude and the LGB won't drop at all. I wish there was a kind of 'fuzzy' place, either with the clouds or with the drop altitude, to help in these situations.

If you're manually controlling the aircraft which is where those issues mostly appear your responsible to get the aircraft in the correct parameters for launch. Our game AI can't be built around correcting players errors. You're off 1 ft...Common how'd that happen? Really...

Mike

No, it's a 1/0 problem. Either you're in the clouds and unable to drop, or you're below the clouds and under your drop altitude. This has nothing to do with players controlling the aircraft. There are cloud levels within the game that begin at 10k feet. This is a problem - especially in those older scenarios before weather was enhanced - when your minumum drop altitude and the base of the cloud layer are the exact same.

[mikmykWS]

Ah so we've got to program in 10 meters leeyway to allow for that. Well what if Jimbo wants 20m? What do you think is fair leeway?

Why aren't you using a GPS weapons or anything else more suitable to the weather conditions at the time?

Mike

[hellfish6]

ORIGINAL: mikmyk

Ah so we've got to program in 10 meters leeyway to allow for that. Well what if Jimbo wants 20m? What do you think is fair leeway?

Why aren't you using a GPS weapons or anything else more suitable to the weather conditions at the time?

Mike

Because we're playing other people's scenarios and/or the CWDB. Check out the "Fighter Weapons School - Ground Attack Tactics GAT 5 & 6" scenario. I don't remember who made it, but you've got two F-4s with GBU-10s and 'light low clouds' at 5-7k feet. You can't drop, so you've just lost half your ground attack capability.

Admittedly, it's a rare occurrence, but it has happened. And you can be sure that some guy out there who bought the game off Steam is gonna run into this problem, not have the patience to go into the editor and fix it, and be a lot more vocal about this one specific issue than I am.