Airfield attack and AA exe.

[Meyer1]

Hi, I'm using the fixed exe, and playing the "last stand in Afica" scenario as axis against the PO; which is attacking my airfields and the AA unit that stands there with the fighter units never participates of the defense. Is this correct?

[Oberst_Klink]

ORIGINAL: Meyer1

Hi, I'm using the fixed exe, and playing the "last stand in Afica" scenario as axis against the PO; which is attacking my airfields and the AA unit that stands there with the fighter units never participates of the defense. Is this correct?

Best use 3XBb.exe and what about the sitrep or toaw.log?

Klink, Oberst

[Meyer1]

Hi, sorry for the confusion, but that's the exe that I'm using (3XBb.exe).

Not really sure with the logs, hmmm, just checked, I don't have the "sitrep log" activated. And where I'm supposed to find the "toaw.log"?

Thanks.

[Meyer1]

Hi, just tested with the log activated:

Allies Turn 4 Battle at 44,2 (BIZERTE)
Allies Wstrn Dsrt AF, 3/3 (LtB) bombards the target.
Allies Wstrn Dsrt AF, 1/3 (FB) supports the attack.
Allies 9th AF, 1/5 (F) supports the attack.
Axis 1 Re.A., 1/4 (F) defends.
Allies Wstrn Dsrt AF, 3/3 (LtB) bombards the target.
Allies Wstrn Dsrt AF, 3/3 (LtB) bombards the target.
Allies approximate equipment and personnel losses - 3%
Axis approximate equipment and personnel losses - 29%
Attackers
0/ 35 Hurricane Replacements are available.
3/ 69 Spitfire (early) Replacements are available.
2/ 70 Spitfire (late) Replacements are available.
1/ 36 Wellington Replacements are available.
0/ 36 Beaufighter (early) No replacements are available.
2/ 36 Baltimore Replacements are available.
3/ 33 P-39 Aircobra Replacements are available.
Defenders
24/ 66 CR-42 Falco Replacements are available.
5/ 31 G. 50 Freccia Replacements are available.

I also had in the hex the AA unit showed in the screenshot, which as you see did not participate.

[Oberst_Klink]

ORIGINAL: Meyer1

Hi, just tested with the log activated:

Allies Turn 4 Battle at 44,2 (BIZERTE)
Allies Wstrn Dsrt AF, 3/3 (LtB) bombards the target.
Allies Wstrn Dsrt AF, 1/3 (FB) supports the attack.
Allies 9th AF, 1/5 (F) supports the attack.
Axis 1 Re.A., 1/4 (F) defends.
Allies Wstrn Dsrt AF, 3/3 (LtB) bombards the target.
Allies Wstrn Dsrt AF, 3/3 (LtB) bombards the target.
Allies approximate equipment and personnel losses - 3%
Axis approximate equipment and personnel losses - 29%
Attackers
0/ 35 Hurricane Replacements are available.
3/ 69 Spitfire (early) Replacements are available.
2/ 70 Spitfire (late) Replacements are available.
1/ 36 Wellington Replacements are available.
0/ 36 Beaufighter (early) No replacements are available.
2/ 36 Baltimore Replacements are available.
3/ 33 P-39 Aircobra Replacements are available.
Defenders
24/ 66 CR-42 Falco Replacements are available.
5/ 31 G. 50 Freccia Replacements are available.

I also had in the hex the AA unit showed in the screenshot, which as you see did not participate.

See screenshot where to activate the toaw_log.txt. There you can find out why they didn't shoot. LSiA is one of my favourites scenarios, because the weather and the supply issues are so perfectly modelled.
I also would make sure to adjust it to 3.4, e.g. MRPB=3 and AD=28; that way it works like ace. Entrenchment was also difficult in that terrain, so the rate I'd adjust to 33%-50%.

Klink, Oberst

[ogar]

FWIW,

I usually have SitRep = Y and ToawLog = Y. Depending on how you start TOAW, You may simply want to add this string to your command line (add it in to the Properties of your shortcut) :

"toawlog" "uberdude"

So this would add on to the usual command line " C:\Programs\.....\opart3.exe"
Note the arrangement of (") and/or spaces in that string may vary depending on which version of Win you're running. And uberdude will give you more info than you want or need, but there'll be plenty to sift through.

I do not think the problem (if there is one) is with either 3xB or AAA mod - as these fixed the bug that prevented AAA weapons in NON-AAA units from participating in anti-air. The problem, then, would be in TOAW 3.4 and I think in earlier versions. In airfield attacks, the manual states that the attacking equipment will only attack 'enemy aircraft', ignoring other types of units. It may be that means only 'enemy aircraft' are tagged as defenders.
Even so, depending on co-operation levels, the flak unit should participate in the 'furball' which occurs whenever air units respond to any enemy ground and/or air movement. And that should be clear from the toawlog.

Finally, from memory, I recollect finding out that high-level AAA does not help all that much in defending against airfield attacks. Better to have 20 or 30 20mm (or 50 caliber MG) than 10 or so 88 mm or 90 mm.

[Meyer1]

Hi, thanks for the answers. I activated the toaw.log and tried another attack, this are the results:

AIRCombat:Possible furball at location: 28,14.
AIRCombat:Committed to furball: Allies Wstrn Dsrt AF, 2/3 (LtB). enemy attack: 568, friendly defense: 278.

Combat : Smite: Allies Wstrn Dsrt AF, 2/3 (LtB), (other), attrition%= 2.
Combat : Weighted direct combat losses: 0%
Combat : Check morale: Allies Wstrn Dsrt AF, 2/3 (LtB), ouch=0,ouch threshold=50.
Combat : Morale check passed (low casualties).
Combat : End smite...

AIRCombat:Committed to furball: Axis III Lufflotte, 1/7 (F). enemy attack: 167, friendly defense: 458.

Combat : Smite: Axis III Lufflotte, 1/7 (F), (other), attrition%= 1.
Combat : Allies weapons firing on Axis Me-109 (late).
Combat : Potentially effective hit on Axis Me-109 (late) by Allies weapon.
Combat : Me-109 (late) destroyed.
Combat : Weighted direct combat losses: 0%
Combat : Check morale: Axis III Lufflotte, 1/7 (F), ouch=8,ouch threshold=50.
Combat : Morale check passed (quality or deployment).
Combat : End smite...

As I see it, the battle occurred at a location well away from the airfield, which justifies the absence of the flak. Maybe I should try putting the air units in "rest" to see what are the effects of the flak in a bombing.

Klink: thanks for the suggestion to play the scenario, I'll start again using those settings.

[Meyer1]

Should I use the editor to modify the scenario? Tried open it with notepad and did not work...

[Meyer1]

ORIGINAL: Meyer1

Should I use the editor to modify the scenario? Tried open it with notepad and did not work...

Nevermind, already changed it with the editor. Now, let's try it.

[Cmdr_Vessery]

To add to this discussion, I've had 5 events(scenario TGW) on attacks at an airfield with AA stationed, doing noting else and over 100% supplied and ready. Below are three of the most recent attacks at the airfield. No AA, not even a, "failed the communication check"..

I'm using the 2cxBb exe, and the latest version of TOAW III. Location 55,44 is an airfield behind my front lines.

Soviets Turn 16 Battle at 55,44
Soviets Baltic VVS, 54th BAP bombards the target.
Soviets Leningrad VVS, 311th Orap Reg supports the attack.
Soviets Long Aviation, 40th Lng Av Div bombards the target.
Soviets Long Aviation, 51st Lng Av Div bombards the target.
Axis VIII/2 Luftfltt., JG-53 supports the defense.
Soviets Long Aviation, 35th Lng Av Div bombards the target.
Soviets Long Aviation, 22nd Lng Av Div bombards the target.
Axis VIII/2 Luftfltt., StG-2 defends.
Axis VIII/2 Luftfltt., StG-1 defends.
Axis II/2 Luftflotte, KG-3 defends.
Soviets Long Aviation, 40th Lng Av Div bombards the target.
Soviets approximate equipment and personnel losses - 11%
Axis approximate equipment and personnel losses - 3%
Attackers
13/ 92 SB-2 Replacements are available.
66/582 Il-4 Replacements are available.
Defenders
0/109 Me-109E/F Replacements are available.
8/140 Ju-87 (late) Replacements are available.
4/ 68 Ju-88 (early) Replacements are available.

Soviets Turn 16 Battle at 55,44
Soviets Long Aviation, 48th Lng Av Div bombards the target.
Soviets Long Aviation, 42nd Lng Av Div bombards the target.
Soviets Long Aviation, 22nd Lng Av Div bombards the target.
Axis VIII/2 Luftfltt., StG-2 defends.
Axis VIII/2 Luftfltt., StG-1 defends.
Axis II/2 Luftflotte, KG-3 defends.
Soviets Long Aviation, 22nd Lng Av Div bombards the target.
Soviets approximate equipment and personnel losses - 5%
Axis approximate equipment and personnel losses - 6%
Attackers
21/392 Il-4 Replacements are available.
Defenders
8/132 Ju-87 (late) Replacements are available.
5/ 64 Ju-88 (early) Replacements are available.

Soviets Turn 16 Battle at 55,44
Soviets Long Aviation, 22nd Lng Av Div bombards the target.
Axis VIII/2 Luftfltt., StG-2 defends.
Axis VIII/2 Luftfltt., StG-1 defends.
Axis II/2 Luftflotte, KG-3 defends.
Soviets approximate equipment and personnel losses - 4%
Axis approximate equipment and personnel losses - 2%
Attackers
7/164 Il-4 Replacements are available.
Defenders
4/124 Ju-87 (late) Replacements are available.
1/ 59 Ju-88 (early) Replacements are available.

[Curtis Lemay]

I created a test scenario with a AAA unit on an airfield and on a bridge (might as well check out bridge attacks at the same time). There were 1000 88's in the AAA units. I attacked with 1000 P-40's in each case. On the airfield was also an air unit with 1 biplane with 1 proficiency (just to enable the airfield attack option).

The attack on the airfield inflicted 193 losses on the P-40's. The attack on the bridge inflicted 30 losses on the P-40's. Both AAA combats were detailed in the TOAW_Log.

Clearly, AAA is conducted in both Airfield and Bridge attacks, regardless of it being reported in the Loss Report.

[Cmdr_Vessery]

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

I created a test scenario with a AAA unit on an airfield and on a bridge (might as well check out bridge attacks at the same time). There were 1000 88's in the AAA units. I attacked with 1000 P-40's in each case. On the airfield was also an air unit with 1 biplane with 1 proficiency (just to enable the airfield attack option).

The attack on the airfield inflicted 193 losses on the P-40's. The attack on the bridge inflicted 30 losses on the P-40's. Both AAA combats were detailed in the TOAW_Log.

Clearly, AAA is conducted in both Airfield and Bridge attacks, regardless of it being reported in the Loss Report.

ok. Thanks for the test. I find it strange that if it was participating in the defense of the airfield,
that it would show up in the sitrep report. Where do I check to see if the TOAW.log is turned on and access it?

Thanks.

[Meyer1]

ORIGINAL: Cmdr_Vessery



ok. Thanks for the test. I find it strange that if it was participating in the defense of the airfield,
that it would show up in the sitrep report. Where do I check to see if the TOAW.log is turned on and access it?

Thanks.

Opart.ini, "toawlog=Y"

Check the screenshot that Klink posted above.