TGW AAR

[Cmdr_Vessery]

AGC update -

14SEP41 -
Operation Thor's Hammer is moving along nicely. Weather is holding, lead elements of the battle group
have reached the outer defenses of Moscow. Follow on troops are massing in the breech for further effort
into Moscow.

[Cmdr_Vessery]

Battle front view, end of turn 13, 14SEP41.

Air war was hot this week also, German reports are indicating 350-400 Soviet aircraft downed.

[Cmdr_Vessery]

ok, so I got a strange thing, Soviets bombed an airfield twice during his turn,
and both times the AA unit at the airfield didn't engage in the battle?



I thought the AA was suppose to respond to attacks if at the location of an air attack.

Does AA have to be set to "tactical" to respond?

stupid thing.. If they don't help defend, what the point of AA units??

[Cmdr_Vessery]

Flak unit in question from above post. And yes, I am using the 3XBb exe with latest game version.

As you can see the flak unit has been in place for some time due to the 100% supply and
readiness.

Any ideas? Does AA have to be "on top" of the stack to respond?

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: Cmdr_Vessery
Flak unit in question from above post. And yes, I am using the 3XBb exe with latest game version.

As you can see the flak unit has been in place for some time due to the 100% supply and
readiness.

Any ideas? Does AA have to be "on top" of the stack to respond?

I don't think it needs to be on top to respond but if you'll turn on the sitrep logs we might be able to get more
detail about the battles. I seem to remember something about battles that don't really occur in the hex you
think they happen in. The AA unit may not have fired because the interception occurs in an adjacent hex
or something. We'd need the logs to know for sure. Plus an expert like Bob Cross to interpret for us.

[Cmdr_Vessery]

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

ORIGINAL: Cmdr_Vessery
Flak unit in question from above post. And yes, I am using the 3XBb exe with latest game version.

As you can see the flak unit has been in place for some time due to the 100% supply and
readiness.

Any ideas? Does AA have to be "on top" of the stack to respond?

I don't think it needs to be on top to respond but if you'll turn on the sitrep logs we might be able to get more
detail about the battles. I seem to remember something about battles that don't really occur in the hex you
think they happen in. The AA unit may not have fired because the interception occurs in an adjacent hex
or something. We'd need the logs to know for sure. Plus an expert like Bob Cross to interpret for us.

Sitrep logs are on. Here's the two battles that occurred at the airfield.

1st)
Soviets Turn 14 Battle at 56,55 (Bobruysk)
Soviets Leningrad VVS, 2 BAP - 2nd CAD bombards the target.
Soviets West VVS, 39 BAP-10th CAD bombards the target.
Axis VIII/2 Luftfltt., JG-53 supports the defense.
Soviets Kiev VVS, 43 BAP-14th CAD bombards the target.
Soviets Kiev VVS, 48 BAP-17th CAD bombards the target.
Soviets Kiev VVS, 62nd BA Div bombards the target.
Soviets Odessa VVS, 5 BAP-21st CAD bombards the target.
Soviets Long Aviation, 35th Lng Av Div bombards the target.
Soviets Long Aviation, 50th Lng Av Div bombards the target.
Soviets Long Aviation, 18th Lng Av Div bombards the target.
Axis VIII/2 Luftfltt., KG-26 defends.
Soviets Kiev VVS, 62nd BA Div bombards the target.
Soviets Long Aviation, 35th Lng Av Div bombards the target.
Soviets Long Aviation, 18th Lng Av Div bombards the target.
Soviets Kiev VVS, 62nd BA Div bombards the target.
Soviets approximate equipment and personnel losses - 11%
Axis approximate equipment and personnel losses - 2%
Attackers
13/238 SB-2 Replacements are available.
47/438 Il-4 Replacements are available.
29/ 80 Pe-2 Replacements are available.
2/ 40 Su-2 Replacements are available.
Defenders
0/113 Me-109E/F Replacements are available.
5/ 61 He-111 Replacements are available.

2nd)
Soviets Turn 14 Battle at 56,55 (Bobruysk)
Soviets Leningrad VVS, 2 BAP - 2nd CAD bombards the target.
Soviets Long Aviation, 42nd Lng Av Div bombards the target.
Soviets Long Aviation, 18th Lng Av Div bombards the target.
Axis VIII/2 Luftfltt., KG-26 defends.
Soviets Long Aviation, 42nd Lng Av Div bombards the target.
Soviets approximate equipment and personnel losses - 8%
Axis approximate equipment and personnel losses - 17%
Attackers
0/ 29 SB-2 Replacements are available.
21/251 Il-4 Replacements are available.
3/ 14 Pe-2 Replacements are available.
Defenders
10/ 56 He-111 Replacements are available.

My He-111's at this airfield got pummeled.. lol.. First battle had 2 AS groups respond in
defense. 2nd battle 1 AS group defending.

[larryfulkerson]

I didn't see anything in the sitrep log that explains it. Sorry about the golden goose chase. I'm not sure how to explain the AA units
lack of firing. We'll have to ask somebody who is an expert.

[Cmdr_Vessery]

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

I didn't see anything in the sitrep log that explains it. Sorry about the golden goose chase. I'm not sure how to explain the AA units
lack of firing. We'll have to ask somebody who is an expert.

Thanks Larry. I think I will do a quick test with a save game and try a few things and report back on results.
I'm putting the AA units on "Tactical" status to see if they respond to an airfield attack.

[Cmdr_Vessery]

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

I didn't see anything in the sitrep log that explains it. Sorry about the golden goose chase. I'm not sure how to explain the AA units
lack of firing. We'll have to ask somebody who is an expert.

No joy on my few tests. I tested in "Tactical" and "dug in" modes, the Me-111's were defending themselves still.

Frustrating... lol

[sPzAbt653]

I don't have anything helpful to contribute, but the unit has the AA Icon, so it shouldn't have anything to do with 3xBb or the issue that was designed to solve. I will suggest that one instance doesn't indicate an issue, someone would have to keep track of at least ten instances, preferably more.

From the TGW design standpoint, many of those AA units were included specifically for airbase defense. I've noticed that Elmer will reduce his number of airfields if AA units are in the location. Bridge attacks also.

[Cmdr_Vessery]

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

I don't have anything helpful to contribute, but the unit has the AA Icon, so it shouldn't have anything to do with 3xBb or the issue that was designed to solve. I will suggest that one instance doesn't indicate an issue, someone would have to keep track of at least ten instances, preferably more.

From the TGW design standpoint, many of those AA units were included specifically for airbase defense. I've noticed that Elmer will reduce his number of airfields if AA units are in the location. Bridge attacks also.

I conducted a few more tests on a soviet base, and the AA sitting there didn't engage. I will get another sitrep post for viewing.

[Meyer1]

I recently made a thread with the same question, in my case looks like the bombers were intercepted well before reaching the target: tm.asp?m=3804611

Edit: well, different cases, I had only fighter units in the airfield, but I see that your bombers took casualties as well. Hard to think that they took part in the "furball". Check the "toaw.log" as Klink explained to me in the other thread.

[Cmdr_Vessery]

ORIGINAL: Meyer1

I recently made a thread with the same question, in my case looks like the bombers were intercepted well before reaching the target: tm.asp?m=3804611

Edit: well, different cases, I had only fighter units in the airfield, but I see that your bombers took casualties as well. Hard to think that they took part in the "furball". Check the "toaw.log" as Klink explained to me in the other thread.

Thanks Meyer, I will check the toaw.log as well for any additional detail.

[Cmdr_Vessery]

Operation Thor's Hammer update.

Weather has improved this week in the AO. Panzer divisions organizing within the pocket,
7th AK is tasked with taking Kalinin and capturing the airfield there as well. The airfield
is needed to help support the push into Moscow.

Final decision is to press straight in, or wrap around from the north. It appears to be an opening
north of the defenders line.. Question is, what lays in waiting around that corner???

[larryfulkerson]

So um.......where are you at now? I'm on turn 3. 16:29 2/28/2015 Sunday Tucson time

[Cmdr_Vessery]

Operation Thor's Hammer update.

After a hard fight initial battle to breach the outer defenses, the 86th Infantry division pushed
their way into the center of Moscow. Follow on troops are trying to catch up and widen the gap to
maintain a line of communications with the forward division.

Also, Kalinin was taken. The airfield is operational and supporting the forward attacks and interdiction
efforts.

[Cmdr_Vessery]

German forces were able to hold onto their prize, Moscow.

Even after a double turn by the Soviets...

[Cmdr_Vessery]

Steve / Larry,

Got a unit question for ya.

Axis ReichsFuhrer-SS, 2. SS Inf Bde shows a "motorized infantry" icon. But when you look at the unit detail,
it lists "Foot movement" as it's special abilities. Was it meant to be motorized or not?

[larryfulkerson]

I took a look at the unit and I found that it has 17 trucks when only 2 are authorized. Not that that would
make some kind of difference. I guess we'll have to ask Steve when he gets back from his vacation.

[Cmdr_Vessery]

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

I took a look at the unit and I found that it has 17 trucks when only 2 are authorized. Not that that would
make some kind of difference. I guess we'll have to ask Steve when he gets back from his vacation.

Here's another one that I have a question on. SS Kavalerie Bde showing "foot movement" also.