Shearing the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs. Meklore61(Ax)

[JocMeister]

No EF box. Allies can only invade the Med until 1/44.

Just started working on the dreadful 1st turn....While I appreciate historical accuracy sometimes I wish devs would just set things up so they make sense rather then reflect history.

Just spent about 2 hours with the air force and I´m about 30% done...[>:]

[Flaviusx]

Why do you hate sheep?

Good luck.

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Why do you hate sheep?

Good luck.

Haha, my first AE opponent had a AAR of our game running called "Wild Sheep Chase". Apparently it was a book title or something. To show that my AAR was a mirror one I called mine "Rise of the Sheep". Don´t know why but after that I always have Sheep is somewhere in my AAR title. [:)]

EDIT: Fighter command done...talk about mess. Overloaded with recon, bases are wrong. Patrols attached...Bomber trained Typhoons...ouff.

[Seminole]

Bomber trained Typhoons...ouff.

Do you use the Typhoons for escort?
I thought folks were raving about their ground attack capability.

Fighter bomber air groups trained as fighters will
bomb at 80% net effectiveness. Fighter bomber air
groups trained as bombers will dogfight with opposing
fighters (and fighter-bombers without bombs) as if they
had only 80% of their normal experience.

[Lowpe]

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Why do you hate sheep?

Good luck.

Haha, my first AE opponent had a AAR of our game running called "Wild Sheep Chase". Apparently it was a book title or something. To show that my AAR was a mirror one I called mine "Rise of the Sheep". Don´t know why but after that I always have Sheep is somewhere in my AAR title. [:)]

EDIT: Fighter command done...talk about mess. Overloaded with recon, bases are wrong. Patrols attached...Bomber trained Typhoons...ouff.

great to see this

aye, the first turn air re-org is quite a task. Agree I like the historical fidelity but one wonders which numpty organised the RAF in such a chaotic manner

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Why do you hate sheep?

Good luck.

Haha, my first AE opponent had a AAR of our game running called "Wild Sheep Chase". Apparently it was a book title or something. To show that my AAR was a mirror one I called mine "Rise of the Sheep". Don´t know why but after that I always have Sheep is somewhere in my AAR title. [:)]

EDIT: Fighter command done...talk about mess. Overloaded with recon, bases are wrong. Patrols attached...Bomber trained Typhoons...ouff.

My Japanese AARs are named after book titles from my favorite Japanese author, Haruki Murakami. Wild Sheep Chase is one of his first books. It also includes some elements dealing with the legacy of Japan's build-up to war, especially in Manchuria.

The two titles also ended up reflecting something about the game, which was fun. At least until I started my second AAR against another opponent, titling it "The Elephant Vanishes," and having half the KB sunk on Dec 8! [;)]

Good luck Jocke! Keep the Fleece!

[barkhorn45]

What I do is do all the moving around,reassigning...then save it as 43-45 setup
then resume play.when I save I do it under a different name like 43-451.
then I always have a setup to start a new game.[:)]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

No EF box. Allies can only invade the Med until 1/44.

Just started working on the dreadful 1st turn....While I appreciate historical accuracy sometimes I wish devs would just set things up so they make sense rather then reflect history.

Just spent about 2 hours with the air force and I´m about 30% done...[>:]

[NotOneStepBack]

ORIGINAL: barkhorn45

What I do is do all the moving around,reassigning...then save it as 43-45 setup
then resume play.when I save I do it under a different name like 43-451.
then I always have a setup to start a new game.[:)]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

No EF box. Allies can only invade the Med until 1/44.

Just started working on the dreadful 1st turn....While I appreciate historical accuracy sometimes I wish devs would just set things up so they make sense rather then reflect history.

Just spent about 2 hours with the air force and I´m about 30% done...[>:]

This can't be done on server.

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: Seminole
Do you use the Typhoons for escort?
I thought folks were raving about their ground attack capability.

Ah, sorry. I should have been clearer. Bomber trained Typhoons have no place in Fighter Command. At least not for me.

Don´t think its the Typhoons per see that are great for knocking out tanks but rather anything that can carry rockets. No sure about the historical accuracy about that...

[JocMeister]

______________________________________________________________________________

[font="Verdana"]Organizing the Air Force[/font]
______________________________________________________________________________

As mentioned earlier I keep on working with the 1st turn. Everything is a mess that needs to be sorted. I go with a similar setup as carlkay58 but with some of my own ideas thrown in.

Bomber Command
Since the devs decided night attacks should be a waste of time we will use them for daylight attacks only. All Stirlings go to the 15th. All mediums go to 9th. All available British long range fighters are transferred here. Recon are moved here from Fighter Command.

I will do the odd night attacks just to make sure meklore doesn´t convert all his NFs to day.

8th
All mediums transferred to 9th. Recon added. Some P47s sent to the Med and the 9th.

Fighter Command
What a mess. Anything not a fighter and all bomber trained FBs moved out. Patrols transferred to RAF Coastal. Recon sent to BC and the 9th. Some FBs/bombers moved to Coastal Command in the Med.

9th
Anything in the UK being a medium bomber is sent here. Some P47s from 8th are also sent here. I´ll see if I can possible use the 9th to aid in the destruction of the Ruhr. Depends on what meklore does I guess.

2nd RAF
Anti Pelton force in the making. All Typhoons and bomber trained FBs sent here. About 10-15 additional Fighter squadrons are sent here to retrain as bombers. I tried picking nationalities with low pools. Aus/Can/Nor. These won´t see any action until summer of 44.

15th
Stirlings from BC but nothing else.

Tactical
Some extra P47s but thats it for now. Last game I sent to much to the Med but lacked AF space. Will wait until Sicily is captured before sending some more down here.


------------------------
Overall Plan
------------------------
I´ve received a lot of help from N.O.S.B and that helped me figure out my problems with keeping U-boats suppressed and factory bombing. So I should do a lot better this time around. In hindsight it was pretty stupid of me to assume the game used any kind of system that made sense or was logical...should have known better!

Anyway big thanks to N.O.S.B! [&o]

In the version me and Pelton played the B17G was delayed 2 extra months compared to this version of the game. Now the G is available from start. Which means I can push harder... I´ll try to suppress the U-boats while at least trying to achieve some positive VPs. As usual I´ll completely disregard losses outside pool considerations. Apparently the pilots and crew of the air force are of no concern to the politicians in this game...but the army chaps...oh my!

I took some serious losses last time but pools held up very well. I think I can push a lot harder this time. Probably up too 6-700 planes per turn for the 8th and BC. P38 and P51 pools are the limiting factor here. I might experimenting with flying unescorted B17 raids every second week or something to keep Fighter pools in check. B17 pools are very robust and can handle lots of losses. Heh, sounds almost like Soviet doctrine. [:)]

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

...

Don´t think its the Typhoons per see that are great for knocking out tanks but rather anything that can carry rockets. No sure about the historical accuracy about that...

certainly this is how the WiTE/WiTW game engine works, the 1943 version of the Sturmovik (with the more effective AT rockets) is a real tank killer compared to anything else.

In WiTW, I now tailor my conversions from FB-F to FB essentially on whether or not the plane uses rockets rather than bombs

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

... All Typhoons and bomber trained FBs sent here. About 10-15 additional Fighter squadrons are sent here to retrain as bombers. I tried picking nationalities with low pools. Aus/Can/Nor. These won´t see any action until summer of 44.

I'm not sure about putting low manpower pools into planes that will take heavy losses. Realise you want to rest them till 1944 but I've been making sure that FBs are mostly flown by nationalities with robust manpower pools and leaving those where manpower is a constraint in fighters (which are also easier to stand down if you need to later on)?

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: loki100

certainly this is how the WiTE/WiTW game engine works, the 1943 version of the Sturmovik (with the more effective AT rockets) is a real tank killer compared to anything else.

In WiTW, I now tailor my conversions from FB-F to FB essentially on whether or not the plane uses rockets rather than bombs

Exactly. And it seems that all models of the Hurricane can use rockets. [:)]

ORIGINAL: loki100
I'm not sure about putting low manpower pools into planes that will take heavy losses. Realise you want to rest them till 1944 but I've been making sure that FBs are mostly flown by nationalities with robust manpower pools and leaving those where manpower is a constraint in fighters (which are also easier to stand down if you need to later on)?

I did do as you suggest in my game vs. Pelton. Still ran out of pilots despite grounding all Canadian and Aus squadrons except Heavy bombers. So this time I figured they might just as well get useful while doing nothing. IE. Retrain as bombers. I will probably have to disband them after the first day of attacks but at least this way they will contribute to something. [:)]

[Seminole]

Ah, sorry. I should have been clearer. Bomber trained Typhoons have no place in Fighter Command. At least not for me.

Understood.
My initial, perhaps OCD, urge was to do similar 'logical' groupings, but I've taken a different tact. I try to formulate 'strike packages' (e.g. 4 B-17 groups and 1 P-38) and spread my units among air HQs to better leverage the number of air directives available overall.
You could leave the Troop Carrier Commands idle most of the time, or you could give them some recon and naval interdiction assets and assign them some of those roles so that the ADs available to the other air forces can focus on bombing.

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: Seminole

Ah, sorry. I should have been clearer. Bomber trained Typhoons have no place in Fighter Command. At least not for me.

Understood.
My initial, perhaps OCD, urge was to do similar 'logical' groupings, but I've taken a different tact. I try to formulate 'strike packages' (e.g. 4 B-17 groups and 1 P-38) and spread my units among air HQs to better leverage the number of air directives available overall.
You could leave the Troop Carrier Commands idle most of the time, or you could give them some recon and naval interdiction assets and assign them some of those roles so that the ADs available to the other air forces can focus on bombing.

That is actually a good idea...but I don´t think my sense of neatness can live with that. [:D]

[NotOneStepBack]

ORIGINAL: loki100

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

...

Don´t think its the Typhoons per see that are great for knocking out tanks but rather anything that can carry rockets. No sure about the historical accuracy about that...

certainly this is how the WiTE/WiTW game engine works, the 1943 version of the Sturmovik (with the more effective AT rockets) is a real tank killer compared to anything else.

In WiTW, I now tailor my conversions from FB-F to FB essentially on whether or not the plane uses rockets rather than bombs

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

... All Typhoons and bomber trained FBs sent here. About 10-15 additional Fighter squadrons are sent here to retrain as bombers. I tried picking nationalities with low pools. Aus/Can/Nor. These won´t see any action until summer of 44.

I'm not sure about putting low manpower pools into planes that will take heavy losses. Realise you want to rest them till 1944 but I've been making sure that FBs are mostly flown by nationalities with robust manpower pools and leaving those where manpower is a constraint in fighters (which are also easier to stand down if you need to later on)?

I fly unescorted in order to hit danzig or berlin, or if I just feel like it. Your bombers will replenish, and the VPs are worth it. Also, don't forget to use Strategic AF to bomb cities from the south, most of the time they need something to do too.

Nighttime attacks are a waste of time -- until -- you get a mass of 600 + bombers and a huge 9 hex target area such as the Ruhr. In fact I around turn 10 or afterwards I'd encourage night bombing with RAF this way with one HUGE AD, and they will hit something. Escored by all your NFs. The germans also suck at hitting you at night.

Day light bombing on RAF I fly around 19k feet, and for night time I go lower. The American planes can fly higher, so I usually have them go around 23k during the day.

[JocMeister]

Time to start thinking about my landings. I think I´ll let the US land as usual but pull the two most easternmost British landings and reprep them for Sardinia. Basically I want to try and do the same thing I did last time Sicily -> Sardinia -> Corsica but a lot faster then last time.

So usual landings on T1 and then Sardina on T2. Corsica will probably be around T10-T15.

Goal is to land in mainland Italy or France in mid November. The benefit of taking Sardinia and Corsica early is the the Axis have a lot of coast to cover in Italy. Hopefully this will give me an extra turn after I landed before everything will pile on.

For Europe I have an unorthodox plan...It will be 2 or possible 3 major landings depending on the situation.

Still have very limited access to my computer but I hope to do a proper update tonigh and get some work done on the turn. Writing on the pad sucks.

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: NotOneStepBack

ORIGINAL: loki100

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

...

Don´t think its the Typhoons per see that are great for knocking out tanks but rather anything that can carry rockets. No sure about the historical accuracy about that...

certainly this is how the WiTE/WiTW game engine works, the 1943 version of the Sturmovik (with the more effective AT rockets) is a real tank killer compared to anything else.

In WiTW, I now tailor my conversions from FB-F to FB essentially on whether or not the plane uses rockets rather than bombs

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

... All Typhoons and bomber trained FBs sent here. About 10-15 additional Fighter squadrons are sent here to retrain as bombers. I tried picking nationalities with low pools. Aus/Can/Nor. These won´t see any action until summer of 44.

I'm not sure about putting low manpower pools into planes that will take heavy losses. Realise you want to rest them till 1944 but I've been making sure that FBs are mostly flown by nationalities with robust manpower pools and leaving those where manpower is a constraint in fighters (which are also easier to stand down if you need to later on)?

I fly unescorted in order to hit danzig or berlin, or if I just feel like it. Your bombers will replenish, and the VPs are worth it. Also, don't forget to use Strategic AF to bomb cities from the south, most of the time they need something to do too.

Nighttime attacks are a waste of time -- until -- you get a mass of 600 + bombers and a huge 9 hex target area such as the Ruhr. In fact I around turn 10 or afterwards I'd encourage night bombing with RAF this way with one HUGE AD, and they will hit something. Escored by all your NFs. The germans also suck at hitting you at night.

Day light bombing on RAF I fly around 19k feet, and for night time I go lower. The American planes can fly higher, so I usually have them go around 23k during the day.

Interesting that you fly so low? I tend to keep BC at 23k and 8th around 27-32k.

Isn´t flak really bad on the altitudes you fly?

[Seminole]

Time to start thinking about my landings. I think I´ll let the US land as usual but pull the two most easternmost British landings and reprep them for Sardinia. Basically I want to try and do the same thing I did last time Sicily -> Sardinia -> Corsica but a lot faster then last time.

Remember to use your TFs offensively during the turn, and I would try to plan the landings so that you can free up two TF for quick port repair on the islands. Most of them are size 1 or 2, so the TF can repair it in a single turn by finishing the turn adjacent.

I'm not sure I agree with the early invasion of Sardinia and Corsica when most people seem to give them up without a fight. My preferred move is to get on the mainland ASAP to compel Italian surrender. Why fight the Italians on those islands when surrender gets them fighting for you?

I think the Axis have some interesting options with Sardinia and Corsica, but I haven't seen a lot of creativity yet in AARs.

With respect to Sicily, if the Axis decide to get carried away defending forward with lots of divisions you might even consider keeping two TFs available to 'choke' the Straits:



pros:
This will stop naval supply of Reggio Calabria (hard to get much down that rail, especially if they are using it to move units down too).
It cuts the supply chain link through both ferry hexes to Sicily.
It doesn't put the TFs at risk from port fort guns.
In conjuction with naval interdiction over the northern coast of Sicily it will isolate units on the island (no national supply source as with a beach landing, so all the Axis troopers will be sad and unmotivated).

cons:
Two TFs that aren't prepping to invade somewhere if they're parked here.
Potentially at risk of damage from Axis naval patrols.
?

In my next WA game I'll probably plan my mainland Italy invasion around this gambit as it didn't occur to me until too late in my first two.
Italian surrender chance is triggered by complete ownership of an island, which this should accelerate, or by invading the mainland, or lastly by being on the mainland in supply.

[NotOneStepBack]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

ORIGINAL: NotOneStepBack

ORIGINAL: loki100



certainly this is how the WiTE/WiTW game engine works, the 1943 version of the Sturmovik (with the more effective AT rockets) is a real tank killer compared to anything else.

In WiTW, I now tailor my conversions from FB-F to FB essentially on whether or not the plane uses rockets rather than bombs



I'm not sure about putting low manpower pools into planes that will take heavy losses. Realise you want to rest them till 1944 but I've been making sure that FBs are mostly flown by nationalities with robust manpower pools and leaving those where manpower is a constraint in fighters (which are also easier to stand down if you need to later on)?

I fly unescorted in order to hit danzig or berlin, or if I just feel like it. Your bombers will replenish, and the VPs are worth it. Also, don't forget to use Strategic AF to bomb cities from the south, most of the time they need something to do too.

Nighttime attacks are a waste of time -- until -- you get a mass of 600 + bombers and a huge 9 hex target area such as the Ruhr. In fact I around turn 10 or afterwards I'd encourage night bombing with RAF this way with one HUGE AD, and they will hit something. Escored by all your NFs. The germans also suck at hitting you at night.

Day light bombing on RAF I fly around 19k feet, and for night time I go lower. The American planes can fly higher, so I usually have them go around 23k during the day.

Interesting that you fly so low? I tend to keep BC at 23k and 8th around 27-32k.

Isn´t flak really bad on the altitudes you fly?

I keep losses per week around 500ish. I'd rather hit targets than worry about flak.