German RR efforts in the East

[Numdydar]

A fascinating article on the RR repair and transport capabilities of the Germans on the Eastern front.

http://www.feldgrau.com/dreichsbahn.html

[swkuh]

Yes, fascinating. Avoids discussion of rail traffic servicing concentration camps. Hmmm...

[Whyalterhistory]

ORIGINAL: rrbill

Yes, fascinating. Avoids discussion of rail traffic servicing concentration camps. Hmmm...

"If you repeat a lie often enough, people (like rrbill) will believe it".

[RedBunny]

What lie is this exactly?

[charlie0311]

Our dear friend "whyalterhistory" is on a little adventure. I will leave it alone for a few days, then maybe expose the intent, if nobody else does so.

[swkuh]

I like people like me. charie0311's promise is intriguing.

[sven6345789]

I would seriously recommend to alter that post since there is no question with regard to the holocaust happening.
The Holocaust is a historic fact!!
Using Reichsbahn Trains to transport Jews to Auschwitz is a historic fact!!

On the other hand, i have looked through Whyalterhistorys posts. His post does not come as a surprise to me!

It is bullshit!!! (sorry for the harsh word, but it fits best!)

[charlie0311]

Hi all,

When I first saw "whyalterhistory's" post I though here's some guy trying to uncover some kind of hidden nest of neo-nazis. Pretty ridiculous.

[RedBunny]

Nah, I figured whyalterhistory was some sort of holocaust denier.

I was just wondering if he had the balls to back up is vaguely worded assertion.

He doesn't and I figured that as well.

[Gabriel B.]

One of the elder von Moltke's axioms stated that military operations will suffer accordingly if the rail head is more than 60 miles/100 km from the front lines. If this held true for the first world war, it also held true for the second world war. However, due to the many circumstances beyond their control, German military rail planners were often hard pressed to maintain lesser distances from rail head to the front line - especially when German troops were on the attack in the first two to three years of the war. Given that motor transportation methods had now progressed to far greater levels, Moltke's axiom was extended to about 180 miles/300 km. Whenever feasible, narrow gauge "Feldeisenbahnen" were built to fill the many gaps.

In fantasy land at 250 miles (25 hexes) you are able to stockpile/acumulate suplly and advance another 250 miles in one week .[:D]

[morvael]

If you want supply range cut to 10 hexes, just ask [:)]

[Gabriel B.]

ORIGINAL: morvael

If you want supply range cut to 10 hexes, just ask [:)]

I want to ditch HQBU completly , it is not needed to maintain historical rate of advance .

[morvael]

How's the weaker HQBU working in 1.08.02? Units should be more often in the high 30's, not high 40's AND it will be more difficult to maintain good MP for the second turn (harder to resupply over 100% fuel needs). I think it's weak enough now not to be overpowered, yet still useful.

[Gabriel B.]

ORIGINAL: morvael

How's the weaker HQBU working in 1.08.02? Units should be more often in the high 30's, not high 40's AND it will be more difficult to maintain good MP for the second turn (harder to resupply over 100% fuel needs). I think it's weak enough now not to be overpowered, yet still useful.

Did not instal it. Becausse of failed leader checks ? I do not think that is that much of a isuee, german leaders have high admin skils and in general the hqbu is performed by a high admin skill leader.

However, I am yet to hear of a case in which a german unit was able to acumulate supply at 400 km from the railhead. In real life , they where geting hand to mouth suplies at much shorther ranges.

[morvael]

I think HQBU has now only 1/3 of pre-1.8 power. It's worth trying how it works in latest version.

They were living hand to mouth because of rail capacity problems, this part is lacking in WitE - even a single line can move and unload infinite amounts of supply. We can't compensate that by cutting truck transport even further.

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: Gabriel B.

ORIGINAL: morvael

If you want supply range cut to 10 hexes, just ask [:)]

I want to ditch HQBU completly , it is not needed to maintain historical rate of advance .

the problem with taking it out is that you remove a lot of uncertainty for the Soviet player in 1941 in particular. Without the threat, you can pretty accurately forecast how many MPs a given axis motorised formation will have. There is a need for something to shake up the front and to reflect better German command and control and their effective control of the speed and location of the fighting. The AI doesn't do it, and depending on your settings I agree that you end up with a pretty historical front line by Dec 1941.

I don't like HQBU, not least it clearly sits at the heart of too much of the rules abuse that sometimes goes on.

But there is a need for something to add a degree of randomness. It'll be interesting to see what they do when the WiTW game engine is applied to WiTE2. Clearly the days of unlimited, frictionless, rails will be over and the basic supply flow between depots/depot priority will be a better simulation of most of the war. But I suspect you will still need a rule to allow the historical advances in June-August 1941 - whether that is a supply bonus, a MP bonus or a command malus (for the Soviets) doesn't really matter.

[Balou]

ORIGINAL: sven6345789

I would seriously recommend to alter that post since there is no question with regard to the holocaust happening.
The Holocaust is a historic fact!!
Using Reichsbahn Trains to transport Jews to Auschwitz is a historic fact!!

I recommend this one: " The Most Valuable Asset of the Reich: A History of the German National Railway, Volume 2, 1933-1945" by A.C.Mierzejewski, University of North Carolina Press, 2000.
Half of the book is dedicated to the Reichsbahn in War and Holocaust.