I`m upset...or "not amused"..;)

K_Tiger · Post by **K_Tiger** » Thu Mar 22, 2001 5:10 am

I played tonight a GC as Germans. Mission was assault the russians...first figth.

I swear by god...3 different snipers assaulting two tanks and a 222sdkfz...and destroyed all 3.

Is it my bad karma??....I helped last week a old women to go over the street...seems i did my part..so what?

I will see there names..must be..Stalone..Schwarzenegger..and..Steiner...

what the hell goes on..and with what they made an assault??..with a schweizer pocketknife???

All other troops..throw with grenades and rfgrenades..and sometimes they hit..but without inflict serious damage.

I spent some hours for this battle..and then...i was so angry..and leaving the game.

The autosave will not work in GC...

And please...if its possible to remove the exit button...to somewhere else...may onto the top?? or the end round...to another place?

Another thing...on the same battle..

I hade a experienced enginear squad in a building..(did not move them)....give order to shoot at the poor "farmer" rifle squad of the expected untrained..russians. Riffel (in the open)shoot..18 % hit chance..nothing...mg 28 %...nothing. The russ answering with riffles 4 %-one kill...mg may the same %..one kill...if i tryed this...i will lost my squad.

I played this before on the other side..as russian...what could i say..unexperienced..they did hit nothing...and retreating after a mouse runs true her leggs. Hmmm..now as a german commander...i need plenty of arty to force them to retreat...and they shoot like "wilhelm tell"...if we compared the tanks..my Tauchpanzer III...against T-34...the better optics and accurater..gun goes on my side..my crews hade exp. over 90...may the russians learned a lot in Finnland...!!??

Oh i have another story...i killed with a single stukka....unbelivable..13 units...all around the same attacking hex...and where prebombarded..from arty..nice or?

And why riffle squads shoot with riffles at my tanks over a distance from more than 8 hexes?? is it possible to adjust it in the game?? the same do the snipers...Did the AI not know...what he could hurt and what not??

Promotion...read some stats here...but as i started my first GC...after the first battle a recon unit was promoted...and he did nothing...i leave it in the upper rigth corner...and he did not see any ennemy. I like it

...but the hard figthed guys on the front..get nothing..oh yeah..i forgot the warm handshake...

If its also possible to change the promotion system..like Tankkills..and Infkills?

If a squad kills a tank..must be higher promoted...as a tank who killed a single sniper..."hey bruno..i killed yesterday a sniper with my 88"..."oh..well nice...and i found some flowers for my girl".

Well, the most r allready posted here..but i was "on typing".

My next post includes more "smilis"..

Comments r welcome...

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Thu Mar 22, 2001 5:17 am

I'd say you had a bad day on the Battlefront, K Tiger!

Much of what you have brought up here I promise you is being addressed in version 5. I think you will like the changes.

But war is unfair and unpredictable. No one would have ever looked at Micheal Wittmann or Audie Murphy and said, Now there is a real hero...a real killer.

But they were. I like for things to have expected results. It does not always happen. That is reality.

I would also love to live a day without a disaster, bordering from a broken waterglass to a tornado hitting the house.

But the unexpected is part of life. Maybe too much in SPWAW but that will be improved.

Wild Bill

Figmo · Post by **Figmo** » Thu Mar 22, 2001 5:27 am

Originally posted by K_Tiger:
.......Is it my bad karma??....I helped last week a old women to go over the street...seems i did my part..so what?
...

I think that is the problem - as you were "dragging" her across the road - you should have realized she didn't want to cross!!

Actually, I've never had ALL those things happen to me - are you using the default settings in the game. If you have made adjustments and want to get back to default - just delete the STEEL.PRF file out of the SAVE folder before starting the game.

Figmo

murx · Post by **murx** » Thu Mar 22, 2001 6:19 am

I must agree to K_Tiger ... I had a single Greek Terrorist, er Partisan, using two Molotovs at two SdKfz 233 consecutivly (both moving at top speed) with 50% destroying them. Seemed like that bugger wasn't terrorized by the fact the rest of his FULL platoon was dead. It always *feels* like the AI has a bit more luck then the human player (I guess it's a machine conspiracy and soon SkyNet will take over the whole world).
murx

K_Tiger · Post by **K_Tiger** » Thu Mar 22, 2001 7:45 am

Ooh...now comes ligth in my brain...

The assaults happend allways wen the unit (Tank..and others) r on the move...

Mean..somthing must be rewritten...did not hear any story about an close assault on a tank..wile is on the run..

(may the only unit that could be do this..is a American Cowboy..or?? yeehaa..)..hehe

IMHO...please change this in the Beta5..and remove the snipers completly..no one need it...and its a pure tankstopper...I hate it to waste my time..two rounds to kill one with a tank...or a battalion of engeneer

Tom_Davie · Post by **Tom_Davie** » Thu Mar 22, 2001 8:17 am

K_Tiger; with respect, the utterly unexpected sometimes happens in wargames. I was once playing a boardgame of Squad Leader against a buddy. The effects of defensive fire against infantry are applied to all of the infantry that have moved through a single hex. Well, my long departed friend (he died in '87) tracked with his highly mathematical eye that ALL of my units had moved though one hex. Yes, my entire battalion (some 50 odd squads). He had a heavy machinegun open up with a 9-1 leader (and applied the -2 modifier for moving in the open).

He rolled a 2. I stared at the dice for 5 minutes. I lost the game on the first move, first firefight. Needless to say, I bought the beer that night.

Well, the moral of my story is thta the unexpected usually happens, and the highly unusual sometimes happens. And I will never say that the impossible can not happen in warfare.

I really do not want SP:W@W to become more predictable. It needs just a little tweaking around the edges. And quite frankly, I have a hard time believing just how far it has come.

regards

Tom

Figmo · Post by **Figmo** » Thu Mar 22, 2001 8:27 am

Originally posted by Tom_Davie:
...Well, my long departed friend (he died in '87) tracked with his highly mathematical eye that ALL of my units had moved though one hex. Yes, my entire battalion (some 50 odd squads). He had a heavy machinegun open up with a 9-1 leader (and applied the -2 modifier for moving in the open).

He rolled a 2. I stared at the dice for 5 minutes..... Tom

WOW - That happened to me once too in SL. It was a scenario where the Germans were attacking the Polish I think - there was this one road hex I moved everybody through - it was even at long range from a hill - I was in shock too!!

Figmo

Tom_Davie · Post by **Tom_Davie** » Thu Mar 22, 2001 12:10 pm

Yes, it was a Polish scenario, and it was called Breakthrough at "something', where the 'something' was Belevko, Bekeruz or similar, and it was from a hilltop. The ONLY Polish controlled hex with a clear los to that hex. It was one of the first scenrios in 'Cross of Iron'.

Tom

Maximus · Post by **Maximus** » Thu Mar 22, 2001 12:26 pm

I tried to tell everyone, it is the Superhuman syndrome from Enemy At The Gates. From now on, all Russian snipers are superhuman

Skynet knows

and now all SPWAW players will pay

They just won't listen

AmmoSgt · Post by **AmmoSgt** » Thu Mar 22, 2001 6:09 pm

I don't think we should remove the snipers compleatly ..maybe just move them to year '49 status so secnario guys can use them and so the AI doesn't abuse them

Larry Holt · Post by **Larry Holt** » Thu Mar 22, 2001 6:46 pm

Originally posted by K_Tiger:

I swear by god...3 different snipers assaulting two tanks and a 222sdkfz...and destroyed all 3.

what the hell goes on..and with what they made an assault??..with a schweizer pocketknife???

They used improvised tactics. Found a grenade laying around. Jammed a log into the tracks then tossed the grenade in when the crew opened up to see what was happening. Seriously this has been addressed before. In real life this kind of thing happens and people get medals for doing it.

Riffel (in the open)shoot..18 % hit chance..nothing...mg 28 %...nothing. The russ answering with riffles 4 %-one kill...mg may the same %..one kill...if i tryed this...i will lost my squad.

Remember that's 4% PER PERSON in the Soviet squad so the real chance is 52% or something like that for the entire squad.

Charles2222 · Post by **Charles2222** » Thu Mar 22, 2001 7:38 pm

OTOH, his troops were firing at 18% and 28% per person (probably the 28% was just one man firing if I understand LMGs rules correctly). No one incident can exemplify what's really going on. I've seen more than my share of 2-5% infantry shots scoring hits, while my troops were firing at much higher rates getting nothing, but as far as I can recollect, my troops were the inferior ones (such as US vs. Japan) overall, when they were the ones shotting high and not hitting, while the experienced trrops hit with practically no percentage.

One thing I think a lot of us fail to consider when looking at this type of situation, is the type of HE effect the weapons being fired have. If the Soviets are routinely besting the German engineer (which I haven't seen) is it because the HE effect of the Soviet weapon in question is better than the German ones, therefore making up a great deal for the deficit in experience/accuracy? I think sometimes we tend to think that all rifles are alike. I will say, however, that I've fought a number of times with the Soviet rifles, and for whatever reasons they don't do very well, so I sure wouldn't expect them to be very good at scoring when they have very low percentages.

DoubleDeuce · Post by **DoubleDeuce** » Thu Mar 22, 2001 9:00 pm

I had a similar experience along the initial post except this was while I was DMing a game of "Dungeon's and Dragons". I know this is a SPWAW Formum but please bear with me.

In one game the entire party was ambushed and even though I gave them ample opportunity to extract them selevs they could not. Needless to say that after months of building these characters careers and amassing wealth they were subsequently slaughtered in a matter of minutes by very inferior opponents. After the last player was killed we all just kind of sat there dumbfounded and thinking to ourselves "Ooops, this is not good" and is "Murphy's Law the only Law?"

Then one of the players sits up, looks at me and says "If I roll a '00' it was all a dream and never happened". I looked at him and said "OK you guys haven't made one good roll yet or your characters would still be alive". Knock yourself out". He rolled a '00'. It never happened!

This just goes to show that any time you are dealing with "random" events (be it with dice or computer generated) there will come a time when you ask yourself "What the He**".

Beware the lone soldier backed into a corner and faced with a seemingly impossible situation. He has nothing to lose and he might just surprise you. As long as it is the exception and not the rule I am all for it!

Warhorse · Post by **Warhorse** » Thu Mar 22, 2001 9:00 pm

The y key is to not rush hell-bent-for-leather through terrain not scouted thoroughly!! I have stopped my old mad advances, and using cautious advance tactics, can ususally spot a sniper, or other small team with accompanying infantry, and put them out of their misery!! I have only lost tanks to infantry lately, when I get a brain-fart, and rush into hexes without checking first, other than that, never!!! Snipers are easy to kill IMO, just gotta spot them first. Crews OTOH, are a real pain, if you happen to be next to them, with no points to get away, they can assault and wipe you out also, just be more cautious, is all I can say, from one who learned it the hard way!!

JediMessiah · Post by **JediMessiah** » Thu Mar 22, 2001 9:15 pm

for the most part the game is pretty fair, with just enough unpredictability to simulate the luck and ingeniouity of war and the common soldier. Crews on the other hand may need a lil tweaking (they seem to be better outside of their tanks at times

) but snipers are still pretty weak. I use them (much to my own disdain sometimes) and find that they rarely assault armor. The times they do, its a nice addition to the game (perhaps the sniper found an oppurtunity i.e found a grenade or AT weapon as was mentioned earlier) All in all, the game is fantastic, realistic enough (for a game) to be interesting, but with enough leeway and variance in outcomes to recreate improvisation and luck on the battlefield.

-JediMessiah

heintz28 · Post by **heintz28** » Thu Mar 22, 2001 9:38 pm

I was on the sending end of a situation like
the one above.
My engineer squad had been
wiped out except for one lone man hiding in the jungle... after several turns he rallied and was on the move. He stumbled upon a japanese tank. "What the heck...lets assault
it", he said. KABBOOOM!! he did a Rambo with his flamethrower.
I was so pleased

Sorry, I had to give a replay. Thanks for your indulgence.

lost the game horribly after that though

Rhodan · Post by **Rhodan** » Thu Mar 22, 2001 11:50 pm

I swear by god...3 different snipers assaulting two tanks and a 222sdkfz...and destroyed all 3.

Tanks vs close infantry assault..this is an argument that has been raging between tankers and infantry world wide and being ex- airmobile infantry I can tell you that, from our point of view, a tank is as strong as the track it is running on, you would be suprised what can kind of damage can be done to a tank that moves through infantry territory, e.g. bush, cities, etc. Even improvised weapons may help out to bring a tank to a stand still...and an immobilized tank=a coffin..not unlike a keyhanger, a brilliant invention to lose all of your keys at the same time.

And please...if its possible to remove the exit button...to somewhere else...may onto the top?? or the end round...to another place?

Can't agree more, the times I clicked on that exit button while thinking it was the 'end of turn' button with a sleepy head..ugh.

And why riffle squads shoot with riffles at my tanks over a distance from more than 8 hexes?? is it possible to adjust it in the game?? the same do the snipers...Did the AI not know...what he could hurt and what not??

that is something that baffleds me as well, for the time being I am just assuming they hope to score a lucky hit..uhm..in the barrel of the main gun..uhm..making the shell that was just loaded explode in it's chamber?

The only serious reason I can think of is for them to shoot to force the commander to go 'under armor'. ( although they happily keep on shooting on those that long ago closed that hatch above them)

Promotion...read some stats here...but as i started my first GC...after the first battle a recon unit was promoted...and he did nothing...i leave it in the upper rigth corner...and he did not see any ennemy. I like it ...but the hard figthed guys on the front..get nothing..oh yeah..i forgot the warm handshake...

Now THAT looks realistic to me *insert a sarcastic smile here* Rear echelon always seem to get promoted first

In general though I apply a lot of 'role play' to the whole thing and make up a reason why things went wrong ( like that Sherman III that had a shot down on a bordering Beob with a hit chance of 99% and STILL misses..I assumed the gunner had a hic up...( I would have LOVED to be able to drag him out of that Sherman and execute him on the spot though

))

Rho

Pack Rat · Post by **Pack Rat** » Fri Mar 23, 2001 7:42 am

Originally posted by K_Tiger:

(may the only unit that could be do this..is a American Cowboy..or?? yeehaa..)..hehe

The American cowboy and others from that locale and time frame had/have a lot of help with publicity.

I think there are other places and times that were wilder. For instance the boarder between Scotland and England. Talk about rustling cattle and general mayham as a way of life, that's an understatement. Add some real political intrigue and I think you had an area that went far beyond anything the "Wild West" ever offered. What a game that would make. "Steel Bonnets" was the name of the book I read on this area.

USMCGrunt · Post by **USMCGrunt** » Fri Mar 23, 2001 8:50 am

Originally posted by Pack Rat:
The American cowboy and others from that locale and time frame had/have a lot of help with publicity. I think there are other places and times that were wilder. For instance the boarder between Scotland and England. Talk about rustling cattle and general mayham as a way of life, that's an understatement. Add some real political intrigue and I think you had an area that went far beyond anything the "Wild West" ever offered. What a game that would make. "Steel Bonnets" was the name of the book I read on this area.

Ahhhh yes... The lovely practice of my Celtic ancesters to go out and (as my grandmother would say) "nickit ah coo' beastie" (steal a cow).

BA Evans · Post by **BA Evans** » Fri Mar 23, 2001 6:59 pm

Originally posted by Rhodan:
that is something that baffleds me as well, for the time being I am just assuming they hope to score a lucky hit..uhm..in the barrel of the main gun..uhm..making the shell that was just loaded explode in it's chamber? The only serious reason I can think of is for them to shoot to force the commander to go 'under armor'. ( although they happily keep on shooting on those that long ago closed that hatch above them)

Rho

There are a couple of reasons to shoot at a tank with infantry rifles.

1. You can force the tank to 'button up', which reduces its ability to spot troopers.

2. Whenever you shoot at something, they gain suppression. Every little bit of suppression helps. The more suppression they have the worse they shoot and the harder it is for them to make experience checks.

3. After being shot at, units lose movement points and they lose shots due to battlefield friction.

I always take shots at enemy tanks to reduce their effectiveness. When the computer sends 150 - 200 Polish tanks at me, if I can take away even 1 shot from every tank, I have severely reduced the number of incoming rounds.

BA Evans