2.08 bug

[MaxDamage]

The on call order seems to give absolutely no benefit in terms of reducing the next order's delay when compared to screen and hold. They all have the same delay.

[cbelva]

How are you using the "on call" order? That is primarily for arty/mortars and aircraft units.

[MaxDamage]

Oh ok i was using it for land units like tanks and mech inf.

[MaxDamage]

I suppose it shouldnt work with the units like these? my apologies.

[CapnDarwin]

No, it should, but is one of those things that broke early on and we never caught it. We will log the issue now for fixing in 2.1.

[pzgndr]

On Call – The unit is standing by and ready to receive an order. This is
not necessarily a relaxing status for the unit; it is in a state of constant
readiness and expectation of action. Use the Resupply order instead if
you want a unit to resupply ammo, improve readiness and morale.

I've been using this for armor and infantry units, and now learn it's broke? I guess that explains a few things.

The whole point of using this order is to minimize the delays associated with a subsequent order to execute something, which we have to wait for the next order cycle to do. So this won't get fixed until 2.1, seriously? There must be some point in the code where IF unit is On Call THEN order delay is set to some fraction of the standard order delay. This shouldn't be hard, but then again everything with current computer games seems hard. Unreal. OK, if something can be improved for the 2.09 update that would be great, else I guess we'll just wait and see what 2.1 brings.

[CapnDarwin]

pzgndr, You would think it is that simple, but then you'd also be like we are now 4 weeks later on beta2 because one of these simple one liner fixes causes the entire game to become unhinged. We have been routing out a bug that shutdown resupply across the board and we weren't even touching that code. Thankfully "on call" is not much of a game breaker since it has been used mainly for FSCC pickup of arty who default on call in the AI. We are looking at a vast revamp of the whole orders delay and control dynamic for 2.1 so we can do it right and not try to slap a fast and dirty fix (and possibly unstable on too boot).
Then again Rob is really good and maybe he can tweak something for the Beta2.

[pzgndr]

ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin
pzgndr, You would think it is that simple

In theory, yes. But I've also done code development and fully understand how the simple quickly becomes not-so-simple. Not unlike real-life tactical operations... [;)]

[Tazak]

are you saying on-call should work for non-arty units, wasn't aware of that

From the 2.04 patch notes
On Call – Useful for HQ and Arty units that need to be ready to do other things when they get where they are going

Couldn't see the point of putting a HQ into on-call status over screen or hold, whereas arty general stance is on-call unless its in CB/resupply stance. Other units don't have the on-call stance normally.

[Ardi]

Couldn't see the point of putting a HQ into on-call status over screen or hold

So you can fastly move it further following your forces who dealt with the enemy and march forward, i guess. It's mostly the case for Soviet player though.

[CapnDarwin]

I'm going to move to Tech support to keep track of the issue. Thanks.

[Tazak]

ORIGINAL: Ardi

Couldn't see the point of putting a HQ into on-call status over screen or hold

So you can fastly move it further following your forces who dealt with the enemy and march forward, i guess. It's mostly the case for Soviet player though.

but the on-call stance is only available at the end of a movement order (for non-arty units), doesn't make sense to move a unit then expect it to have a reduced order delay after the movement.

Why is there not a on-call stance for units that have not moved
how much of a reduction to the order delay does on-call provide
how much of a penalty is there when a unit in 'on-call' stance is attacked
What is arty "on-call" going to be called - it'll be confusing to have 2 different orders with the same name

This isn't meant to sound snappy but these are the sorts of questions that should've cropped up if on-call was meant for all units rather than just arty

[pzgndr]

ORIGINAL: Tazak
but the on-call stance is only available at the end of a movement order (for non-arty units), doesn't make sense to move a unit then expect it to have a reduced order delay after the movement.

My interpretation was that being on call at the end of a movement meant that new orders issued in a subsequent orders phase would be executed with reduced order delay. Which would be good, and should make sense from that perspective. Hopefully that was also the design intent, to be fixed eventually?

[Tazak]

From that perspective it does but that then leads right into

Why is there not a on-call stance for units that have not moved
how much of a reduction to the order delay does on-call provide
how much of a penalty is there when a unit in 'on-call' stance is attacked
What is arty "on-call" going to be called - it'll be confusing to have 2 different orders with the same name

To me as the only units to have on-call before was arty and was a standard stance unless in resupply or CB (screen and hold being of nil value to arty in the vast majority of situations), it made sense that is was only for arty units post a move, I thought that it was an oversight that enabled it to be selected for none arty units but was overly happy that we had movement waypoint orders implemented I didn't want anything to break that [:D]

So question to the dev's is it;

bug A - on-call shouldn't be available for units other than arty

or

bug B - on-call can reduce delays but doesn't work and is missing from the standard order popup

[cbelva]

I will take a stab at this from the developers side. This issue caused a lot of discussion on our part. It is one of those situations where the hand and the foot doesn't always know what the other is doing or thinking. I am coming from the playtesting side and I don't have little knowledge as to what is in the code. Especially one as complicated and as large as this. I have been playing the game well before there was a manual. I was caught flat footed with Rob reply that the "On Call" command should affect land maneuver units. I was unaware of that feature. Personally, I cannot think of how a land unit would be "On Call". That is not how armies at this scale work. In a combat area they would be either combat ready or in a resupply/refit mode. If they are combat ready they are waiting on orders to move to the front. You can't get more "on call" than that. I personally see the "On Call" order for maneuver units to be gamey. Players would try to use it to circumvent orders delay. Order delay is a real issue that a command has to consider. Even with units just sitting there waiting for orders. There are many factors that can affect it. So, what I am saying in all this is that "from my point of view" the On Call command should not be available for non arty/air units. So I would say that the real bug is Bug A.
 
I will let the others weigh in on this is they so choose. Stay tune and we will give you the definitive answer once we iron things out.

[pzgndr]

ORIGINAL: cbelva
I will take a stab at this from the developers side...
I personally see the "On Call" order for maneuver units to be gamey. Players would try to use it to circumvent orders delay.

I only took it from the gamers side, based on what the manual stated.

In lieu of any genuine planning feature in the game, which is also a reality, there's no feature in this game to position a unit to execute a planned (or at least hastily pre-planned) maneuver that a reserve or counter-attack unit may be expected to perform. Basically, move to point X and wait for my signal, and then attack left to point A or attack right to point B. That sort of thing.

Frankly it could be whatever you guys want it to be, but it just needs to be clarified in the manual and needs to do what it says. Else we all end up scratching our heads in wonder...

[cbelva]

ORIGINAL: pzgndr

Frankly it could be whatever you guys want it to be, but it just needs to be clarified in the manual and needs to do what it says. Else we all end up scratching our heads in wonder...

You are 100% right on this point and it is our mistake. Like I said this was one time when the left and right hand did not know what the other was doing. We will get this straightened out. For the record, it has been decided to remove the "on call" order from the land units. Which , in my humble opinion, is the way it should have been in the beginning.