Sad, sad, sad.......

[Jagdtiger14]

I have played WiF for many years and have gone to WiF conventions in Michigan as well as Germany. I'm really looking forward to the day when I can play MWiF. At the moment MWiF is not ready for me to buy even at a discount...but I think it might be getting closer. What is stopping me is seeing for example the "Game Freezing" thread in tech support. If this is still a problem, then I cant buy the game. Even with stuff like that fixed, until Netplay is up and running I will not spend full retail for MWiF.

I check the MWiF forum frequently, especially the monthly reports to see what's been done, and tech support to see what is still a problem.

[Smokey2]

Bought not long after release and played around in solitare a bit to get a feel - looks nice. But put back on the shelf and waiting for the release of AI so that I can play a game before I look at this release again.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: pzgndr

ORIGINAL: AllenK
Well, the optimistic explanation might be people are getting on with playing and enjoying this "unplayable" game and don't feel the need to post. The disgruntled are always the most vociferous.

But at the end of the day I'm still looking for the Fascist Tide half map scenario and computer opponent. I'll take the Fascist Tide solitaire. But I'm kinda stuck at either the Barbarossa snack or a full blown Global War all-you-can-eat buffet. So I patiently wait. And monitor. Onwards...

warspite1

The more I hear that and the more I think about it, the more I believe this should be a priority. In terms of attracting people to the game - or getting them to stay - the two half maps would be an excellent addition. Many people I converse with are naval or land nuts (very often one, not both).

Having these scenarios would at least allow people to play a "campaign" (as opposed to a starter scenario - feast or famine) with their own favourite theatre - and without the massive and often overwhelming commitment that the Global War requires.

Matrix are committed it seems to getting "Barb" and "Guad" working under netplay - I hope that the half map scenarios are next up as this would be of significant assistance in promoting the game, showing progress being made and, who knows? keeping people who would otherwise be overwhelmed and give up.

[76mm]

The more I hear that and the more I think about it, the more I believe this should be a priority. In terms of attracting people to the game - or getting them to stay - the two half maps would be an excellent addition. Many people I converse with are naval or land nuts (very often one, not both).

I agree; at this point I probably won't come back to this game, but while I was trying to enjoy it, it sure would have been nice be be able to play a Europe-only campaign. I am completely unfamiliar with the Pacific theater and was overwhelmed with the Global War scenario (and very bored with Barbarossa). Eighteen months after release, it is difficult to understand or accept that these scenarios have not been released.

[bo]

Boy I am depressed when I read these forums, I respect every ones opinion here pro and con about the way things were handled. Some are shall we say more vehement than others[;)] but they are allowed their opinion. I as a beta tester have been very outspoken as to the way this whole sad affair has been handled.

If you are not honest with your feelings then you should not post, I have said things that some other beta testers felt could have been said better, they have worked so hard on this over the years that have earned that right to criticize me if they felt I went overboard a little or maybe a lot.

I will ask Steve to release Fascist Tide to the public, if it has a few glitches in it so what, I have been testing it for years and enjoy it way more than Global War, then maybe Steve can tell you in the posts why he has not released it.

Up to a year or so ago I think Steve has done a fantastic job with a game that in my opinion is just not programmable to its fullest extent, do I know that for a fact, of course not, just a hunch.

Bo

[pzgndr]

ORIGINAL: 76mm
I am completely unfamiliar with the Pacific theater and was overwhelmed with the Global War scenario (and very bored with Barbarossa).

+1

[bo]

ORIGINAL: 76mm

The more I hear that and the more I think about it, the more I believe this should be a priority. In terms of attracting people to the game - or getting them to stay - the two half maps would be an excellent addition. Many people I converse with are naval or land nuts (very often one, not both).

I agree; at this point I probably won't come back to this game, but while I was trying to enjoy it, it sure would have been nice be be able to play a Europe-only campaign. I am completely unfamiliar with the Pacific theater and was overwhelmed with the Global War scenario (and very bored with Barbarossa). Eighteen months after release, it is difficult to understand or accept that these scenarios have not been released.

To my dear friend, the American in Moscow, I have just posted in the beta forums for Steve to release to the general public the very good scenario Fascist Tide, I know Steve feels he has a few things more to do on it but IMO that can wait, get the scenario out now, not next year or the year after. I can only ask and cannot promise he will do so.

If you see any mistakes that need to be fixed then so be it post them and they will be fixed in time. This is my opinion only and I am not speaking for any other beta tester, the Fascist Tide scenario tide is a lot more fun to play than Global War. It moves a lot quicker than Global war for obvious reasons of less countries and a smaller map.

I do not mind negativity to this post but please remember I am concerned about your feelings Steve's feelings and the beta testers feelings, but something needs to be done and it has to be done now. And with the mood I am in and possibly have said the wrong thing, my comment will be "so be it"

Bo

[warspite1]

I leave an appropriate response to bo's comment (below) to be provided by Cartman. Take it away little dude:

"the Fascist Tide scenario tide is a lot more fun to play than Global War".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfpyGyb1J4I

[bo]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

I leave an appropriate response to bo's comment (below) to be provided by Cartman. Take it away little dude:

"the Fascist Tide scenario tide is a lot more fun to play than Global War".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfpyGyb1J4I

I do not understand your post warspite,[&:]

My only concern here is for the people who have paid hard earned money for this game.

Bo

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: bo

ORIGINAL: warspite1

I leave an appropriate response to bo's comment (below) to be provided by Cartman. Take it away little dude:

"the Fascist Tide scenario tide is a lot more fun to play than Global War".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfpyGyb1J4I

I do not understand your post warspite,[&:] I have always been courteous to you in all your posts and respectful, and if this is dig at me then you can explain yourself to the other posters who yearn for something other than Global war.

Bo

warspite1

bo for goodness sake its a joke!! Please read my post 23!! I am fully up for release of both Fascist Tide and its Pacific brother, totally support their release and hope that Erik sees the value here too.

The fact I used Cartman surely told you my comment was not serious??

YES I personally would never play the single map campaigns - but that is because one of the things that attracted me to WIF was the ability to play the whole war - which I did not get from ETO or that Third Reich game.

However, I certainly see their value to new gamers and/or gamers who have a preference for either land or sea as per post 23.

[bo]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: bo

ORIGINAL: warspite1

I leave an appropriate response to bo's comment (below) to be provided by Cartman. Take it away little dude:

"the Fascist Tide scenario tide is a lot more fun to play than Global War".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfpyGyb1J4I

I do not understand your post warspite,[&:] I have always been courteous to you in all your posts and respectful, and if this is dig at me then you can explain yourself to the other posters who yearn for something other than Global war.

Bo

warspite1

bo for goodness sake its a joke!! Please read my post 23!! I am fully up for release of both Fascist Tide and its Pacific brother, totally support their release and hope that Erik sees the value here too.

The fact I used Cartman surely told you my comment was not serious??

YES I personally would never play the single map campaigns - but that is because one of the things that attracted me to WIF was the ability to play the whole war - which I did not get from ETO or that Third Reich game.

However, I certainly see their value to new gamers and/or gamers who have a preference for either land or sea as per post 23.

Okay I apolgize I just came from the doctors with my wife who yesterday could not remember anything around her and scared the hell out of me, it was not a good time for me to answer your post, hate excuses but that is all I can say. I am just hoping Steve will release Fascist Tide, by the way never heard of Cartman.[&:] I am going nuts I just reread your post# 23 and that is why I asked Steve to release Fascist Tide, forgive me not feeling real intelligent right now.

Bo

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: bo

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: bo




I do not understand your post warspite,[&:] I have always been courteous to you in all your posts and respectful, and if this is dig at me then you can explain yourself to the other posters who yearn for something other than Global war.

Bo

warspite1

bo for goodness sake its a joke!! Please read my post 23!! I am fully up for release of both Fascist Tide and its Pacific brother, totally support their release and hope that Erik sees the value here too.

The fact I used Cartman surely told you my comment was not serious??

YES I personally would never play the single map campaigns - but that is because one of the things that attracted me to WIF was the ability to play the whole war - which I did not get from ETO or that Third Reich game.

However, I certainly see their value to new gamers and/or gamers who have a preference for either land or sea as per post 23.

Okay I apolgize I just came from the doctors with my wife who yesterday could not remember anything around her and scared the hell out of me, it was not a good time for me to answer your post, hate excuses but that is all I can say. I am just hoping Steve will release Fascist Tide, by the way never heard of Cartman.[&:] I am going nuts I just reread your post# 23 and that is why I asked Steve to release Fascist Tide, forgive me not feeling real intelligent right now.

Bo

warspite1

No problemo bo. And I will +1 your request in the Dev forum. You never know.....

Hope Mrs bo is okay?

[AlbertN]

Meanwhile I would like the fullest set of Optional Rules coded, and mayhaps even some from the Annuals, I am enjoying the game when I can play it (which alas depends on my gaming pal!).

To me it is still a fresh game to explore in its possiblities, and technically the WW2 game type I see (with production, combat, etc) even if I can see already a degree of streamlining on what happens and which you can sensibly do, there is the constant of tension of "Turn is to end" or "Weather can change" and still a wide degree of results for combats that can make your plans go very sour.

To be honest if people are so eager to play WiF they can try out a Vassal module for it, which is there. Just expect a massive extra workload on the player's end.

A gamer who comes from boardgaming appreciates the ability to "save" a game without having to dedicate a table or take hours to note down setup-up at the break time and to spend more hours to place all back down on the map.
The automated (even if sometimes bugged) computing of many things, a system enforcing rules which at times could result in doubts between players, etcetera.

Does MWiF has big drawbacks?
Presently I feel the major drawback when I play is the lack of vision of ensamble.
When I've a map on a table in front of me I've a better perspective of what happens - when restrained on the monitor I tend to forget of secondary (or tertiary) fronts, or of massing up of units just past the border of the screen I looked at.
But that I can live with.

Heck, I've yet to see a large strategy game that is released bug-less and fully functional.
And let me ask, would it make any difference to play vs an AI that a human would anyhow steamroll 99% of the time? The AI is just here to let you learn the game (in other games, I feel so at least).
An AI for Barbarossa or Guadalcanal will be more than enough in my eyes, when there will be. I still had no issues learning the game without an AI at all, and without having touched WiF in real life (I've played though an amount of other wargames since I was 14.)

[bo]

ORIGINAL: Cohen

Meanwhile I would like the fullest set of Optional Rules coded, and mayhaps even some from the Annuals, I am enjoying the game when I can play it (which alas depends on my gaming pal!).

To me it is still a fresh game to explore in its possiblities, and technically the WW2 game type I see (with production, combat, etc) even if I can see already a degree of streamlining on what happens and which you can sensibly do, there is the constant of tension of "Turn is to end" or "Weather can change" and still a wide degree of results for combats that can make your plans go very sour.

To be honest if people are so eager to play WiF they can try out a Vassal module for it, which is there. Just expect a massive extra workload on the player's end.

A gamer who comes from boardgaming appreciates the ability to "save" a game without having to dedicate a table or take hours to note down setup-up at the break time and to spend more hours to place all back down on the map.
The automated (even if sometimes bugged) computing of many things, a system enforcing rules which at times could result in doubts between players, etcetera.

Does MWiF has big drawbacks?
Presently I feel the major drawback when I play is the lack of vision of ensamble.
When I've a map on a table in front of me I've a better perspective of what happens - when restrained on the monitor I tend to forget of secondary (or tertiary) fronts, or of massing up of units just past the border of the screen I looked at.
But that I can live with.

Heck, I've yet to see a large strategy game that is released bug-less and fully functional.
And let me ask, would it make any difference to play vs an AI that a human would anyhow steamroll 99% of the time? The AI is just here to let you learn the game (in other games, I feel so at least).
An AI for Barbarossa or Guadalcanal will be more than enough in my eyes, when there will be. I still had no issues learning the game without an AI at all, and without having touched WiF in real life (I've played though an amount of other wargames since I was 14.)

Yes an AI is just there in most cases to let you learn the game but I believe that Steve has too much pride in his ability working with an AI that he will create something more than just "learning the game" [;)]

The comment you made about perspective is right on, with the whole map in front of you it is possible to see everything at one glance, the computer does not allow that so I assume you have to be more careful when playing MWIF on a computer as I have never saw the board game. That is one of the reasons why I asked Steve to release Fascist Tide so that just one map, the European map, would seem to me at least, be a lot easier to maneuver around and see all the tacticle spots. But what do I know[:(]

Bo

[AxelNL]

Sad.....I am sad because of the passing away of Terry Pratchett yesterday,,,,
no more discworld

[Centuur]

All good and nice, but as long as there are fatal bugs around, getting the half map scenario's will not do any good. There are too many nasty bugs around which you can't work around. As much as I would like to see Netplay operational, or more optional rules coded, or half map scenario's or the AI, I don't think any of those things will make sense if the basic game isn't good enough to expand on...

Sad, very sad. Progress is far too slow and to be honest, I'm frustrated that things aren't moving faster. But there aren't any resources available to hire another programmer for MWIF so that's how it is. We have to wait, and wait, and wait and hope for the best...

I've once said it would take at least two years before the AI would come back into picture. The way I'm seeing things now, I estimate that those two years are far to optimistic. Netplay isn't running and it's almost 1,5 years after release. So given this, I estimate about 5 years before the AI will be build, if it will be build at all. Five years is a long, long time...

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Centuur

All good and nice, but as long as there are fatal bugs around, getting the half map scenario's will not do any good. There are too many nasty bugs around which you can't work around. As much as I would like to see Netplay operational, or more optional rules coded, or half map scenario's or the AI, I don't think any of those things will make sense if the basic game isn't good enough to expand on...

Sad, very sad. Progress is far too slow and to be honest, I'm frustrated that things aren't moving faster. But there aren't any resources available to hire another programmer for MWIF so that's how it is. We have to wait, and wait, and wait and hope for the best...

I've once said it would take at least two years before the AI would come back into picture. The way I'm seeing things now, I estimate that those two years are far to optimistic. Netplay isn't running and it's almost 1,5 years after release. So given this, I estimate about 5 years before the AI will be build, if it will be build at all. Five years is a long, long time...

warspite1

Do you mean fatal bugs peculiar to the single map scenarios or the game generally. If its the former then yes, that is a problem, but if its the latter then there is no difference to us playing with the Global map is there?

[pzgndr]

ORIGINAL: Centuur
Progress is far too slow and to be honest, I'm frustrated that things aren't moving faster. But there aren't any resources available to hire another programmer for MWIF so that's how it is. We have to wait, and wait, and wait and hope for the best...

It's not just MWiF. It's symptomatic of our niche computer wargame hobby. The boardgames suffered too, which is why we don't have Avalon Hill and SPI any more.

Look how long it took to get to WiFFE, and folks STILL aren't satisfied and pushing for RAW 8.0 and beyond. Hurry up and wait...

[bo]

ORIGINAL: Centuur

All good and nice, but as long as there are fatal bugs around, getting the half map scenario's will not do any good. There are too many nasty bugs around which you can't work around. As much as I would like to see Netplay operational, or more optional rules coded, or half map scenario's or the AI, I don't think any of those things will make sense if the basic game isn't good enough to expand on...

Sad, very sad. Progress is far too slow and to be honest, I'm frustrated that things aren't moving faster. But there aren't any resources available to hire another programmer for MWIF so that's how it is. We have to wait, and wait, and wait and hope for the best...

I've once said it would take at least two years before the AI would come back into picture. The way I'm seeing things now, I estimate that those two years are far to optimistic. Netplay isn't running and it's almost 1,5 years after release. So given this, I estimate about 5 years before the AI will be build, if it will be build at all. Five years is a long, long time...

I admit in testing Fascist I do not go very deep into the scenario, but the last time I worked on it, albeit several months ago it seemed to play very well. centuur could you be more specific about fatal bugs in Fascist tide, thank you. I second warspites post 37 above.

Bo

[bo]

ORIGINAL: pzgndr

ORIGINAL: Centuur
Progress is far too slow and to be honest, I'm frustrated that things aren't moving faster. But there aren't any resources available to hire another programmer for MWIF so that's how it is. We have to wait, and wait, and wait and hope for the best...

It's not just MWiF. It's symptomatic of our niche computer wargame hobby. The boardgames suffered too, which is why we don't have Avalon Hill and SPI any more.

Look how long it took to get to WiFFE, and folks STILL aren't satisfied and pushing for RAW 8.0 and beyond. Hurry up and wait...

How true, I miss Avalon Hill. I have looked at all the Matrix WW2 games in their store and I assume that some of them are good for certain players, they like this feature or that feature, but not for my taste that is why I agree with centuur 110% about frustration with MWIF. I am not saying that Grigsby's War in the West is not a good game but it is too impersonal for me.

World in Flames is a great strategic game with personal units in it and a game that requires constant thinking about this decision or that decision then just moving hordes of divisions and corps all over the place. Not saying my opinion is right but it is just the way I feel.

Bo