Jorge's(A) crusade to the fabled kingdom of PresterJohn(J) DBB-C --- Allied AAR

[Jorge_Stanbury]

Well at least this affects both Japan and Allies in the same way.

The 27th is at 54 experience, while the 41st is at 55. Once they hit the magic 60 number (USA maximum) they will change objectives.

EDIT: By the time I figured out the "no replacements" it was too late, they were already at maximum

[Jorge_Stanbury]

This is my search/ ASW patrols:

Legend:
Each red circle represents around 8 to 12 Catalinas, doing Naval Search; although in the West Coast and Pearl Harbor I have some doing ASW.
Each white circle represents around 12 Catalinas doing training
White rectangles are the special case of the New Zealand's "S.19 Singapore" squadrons, I have 3 planes left and no reinforcements. Since they never fly with SR-5, I decided to use them for training
Soviets excluded


Comments:
Obviously there is little coverage in the Indian Ocean
Same goes for the west coast, but I will get more patrol squadrons soon. Also, he is not pushing hard with his long range submarines
Canada is highly covered for the simple reason that they are restricted units; once I got them trained, nothing else to do
Christmas island might be overkill... but I have it covered in case of merchant raiders
New Zealand is naked [:-]. I think I will put some bombers to search, just in case

Bases:
Alliford bay: 12 Stranraer --> ASW
Bella Bella: 4 Stranraer --> Search
Victoria: 12 Stranraer --> Search
Prince Ruppert: 12 Stranraer --> Training, 12 Bolingbroke --> ASW
Alameda: 12 Catalinas --> Training
Geraldton: Dutch leftovers: 8 Catalinas and 9 Dorniers --> Search
Wyndham: 12 Catalinas --> Seach
Cooktown: 8 Catalinas --> Search
Cairns: 6 Catalinas + 12 Hudsons --> Search
Noumea: 12 Catalinas --> Search
Koumac: 12 Catalinas --> Search
Ndeni: 12 Catalinas --> Search
Vaitupu: 12 Catalinas --> Search
Suva: 12 Catalinas --> Search
Baker is: 12 Catalinas --> Search
Christmas is: 12 Catalinas --> Search
Midway is: 12 Catalinas --> Search
Johnson is: 12 Catalinas --> Search
Pearl Harbor: 12 Catalinas --> Search, 12 Catalinas --> ASW, 24 Catalinas --> Training
Amchitka is: 12 Catalinas --> Search
Cochin: 12 Catalinas --> Search

[IdahoNYer]

Using 24 CATs for training seems to be a waste of a valuable airframe. Why not use floatplanes for training and get the CATs to NZ?

[witpqs]

I do similar things when the available pilots would just be wasting the airframes anyway (due to not being adequately trained). At that date in the game he is probably also using float planes to train pilots. He seems to have good coverage (although I acknowledge that you can never have enough!). [8D]

[Jorge_Stanbury]

Two reasons for using Catalinas for training:
- As Witpqs mentioned, the starting pool of trained pilots was poor, thus no point of wasting airframes until they were properly trained
- Catalinas can train "torpedo attack" skill while FPs can't. I don't know if I might be overshooting here, but early on the war, I thought that using only the Devastator squadrons for torpedo training was not enough.

- I am using all float plane squadrons for training, but they are also training "sweep", "naval bombing" in addition to ASW and naval search.
- All shipborne float planes are now adequately trained in search; most are now using the iddle times to train in ASW.

I think, by now, I can move another 24 Cats to do naval search; maybe one squadron to Brisbane and another to India? In my game New Zealand had been a very secondary theatre; my opponent's IJN is not active in the SW pacific, this of course excluding the seldom submarine attack and one failed commerce raiding attempt. But the Hawaii-Fiji-Australia area is free of Japanese, sor far. Thus my convoys had been moving unopossed on the natural sea lanes covered by "red dots". Following a southerly approach had not been necessary yet.

New Zealand convoys had been few and less relevant, mostly carrying supplies, few carrying fuel, but no troops or airplanes.

[HansBolter]

I strongly agree with training the Cat pilots, especially in torpedo.

Used sparingly they can be a huge surprise to the IJN when it thinks it is out of range of Allied anti-shipping strikes.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

Two reasons for using Catalinas for training:
- As Witpqs mentioned, the starting pool of trained pilots was poor, thus no point of wasting airframes until they were properly trained
- - Catalinas can train "torpedo attack" skill while FPs can't. I don't know if I might be overshooting here, but early on the war, I thought that using only the Devastator squadrons for torpedo training was not enough.

Not sure that is true - doesn't the Canadian Shark FP carry a torpedo? Not much use in ops because of its poor range, but it could train NavT.

[Jorge_Stanbury]

Yes I was talking about the normal FPs, meaning those used by main powers.

Canada's FPs can train torpedo, but I don't have any use for Canadian torpedo bombing planes, as the IJN is out of range from anything other than submarines; thus the strong focus on ASW and search.

Are Canadian squadron fully restricted? if not I would like to see if it makes sense to buy some; as mentioned before, Canada waters are the most heavily patrolled for the only reason there is nothing else I can do with the Canadian squadrons.

By the way, it is funny how unbalanced are the Allied forces: In my pools I have many dozens of Wirraways, Hudsons, Buffalos, Banshees, ancient dive bombers, even Catalinas, still producing, producing until recently or in the wrong national pool. This while the squadrons that can take the planes are scraping the barrel for need of aircraft. A good example is NZealand's patrols; I have 3 S.19 Singapores left, while the Australians have more than 30 Catalinas; but only 2 squadrons, already filled up, capable of taking them!

[witpqs]

I had forgotten about what Jorge mention re torpedo training because my current 1x1 is in mid-44 when I have groups available to train torpedo pilots. Yes - early on I used one or two groups of Cats to train pilots for carrier torpedo bomber duty.

[BBfanboy]

I think a few of the Canadian Patrol squadrons can be bought out and eventually upgrade to Cats. That could make the torpedo training useful but it is much later in the game so I tended to use the Sharks to train low naval and ASW.

[IdahoNYer]

- Catalinas can train "torpedo attack" skill while FPs can't. I don't know if I might be overshooting here, but early on the war, I thought that using only the Devastator squadrons for torpedo training was not enough.

I'm tracking. No other way to train naval torpedo bomber crews. I just don't use a 12 plane squadron - just 2-3 planes for my PBY training squadrons. Do you find better results with more planes?

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: IdahoNYer

- Catalinas can train "torpedo attack" skill while FPs can't. I don't know if I might be overshooting here, but early on the war, I thought that using only the Devastator squadrons for torpedo training was not enough.

I'm tracking. No other way to train naval torpedo bomber crews. I just don't use a 12 plane squadron - just 2-3 planes for my PBY training squadrons. Do you find better results with more planes?

In my experience, and IIRC Michael mentioned this once long ago, the trainees Experience will rise more slowly with fewer planes in the group. The skill being trained in seems to rise just as fast.

[Jorge_Stanbury]

By looking at my training results at the CONUS; where I have plenty of squadron with few planes (usually those that will withdraw out of theatre with planes), my results are consistent with what witpqs said.

And although I am certainly not having ample Catalina pools; I haven't have an issue keeping all squadrons at full allowance. That said I did one early withdrawal to get PPs for buying a USA Div.

date is May 14, 1942 and my pools are:
PBY-4 = 1 ; used so far -1
PBY-5 = 3 ; used so far 47
PBY-5A= 7 ; used so far 30

[IdahoNYer]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: IdahoNYer

- Catalinas can train "torpedo attack" skill while FPs can't. I don't know if I might be overshooting here, but early on the war, I thought that using only the Devastator squadrons for torpedo training was not enough.

I'm tracking. No other way to train naval torpedo bomber crews. I just don't use a 12 plane squadron - just 2-3 planes for my PBY training squadrons. Do you find better results with more planes?

In my experience, and IIRC Michael mentioned this once long ago, the trainees Experience will rise more slowly with fewer planes in the group. The skill being trained in seems to rise just as fast.

Thanks witpqs!

Still manage to learn something new on this forum on a daily basis. Will see if I can spare some more airframes to my training groups!

[Jorge_Stanbury]

May 14th, 42
I got the first results of my naval patrol search network; I found carriers 12 hexes north of Suva! It is premature to say if this is the full KB and/ or if this is an invasion or a simple raid.

But before going there, submarines were quite active last turn; highlights:
- I-158 was sunk at Diego Garcia, this after two really nasty DC attacks, followed by surface action.
- I-168 sunk xAP Cap St Jacques near Enderbury island
- Tautog sunk xAK Tokusima Maru, near Saishu To
- Ro-67 failed to hit xAKL Masayas in the surface, no hits

The sinking of I-158 was quite a show, it started at night with DD Isaac Sweers scoring one direct hit and 3 near misses.
Then this was followed later on the day with DD Tjerk Hiddes scoring another 10 hits, a couple were direct hits, the rest near misses, but with all the ugly messages: heavy fuel leaking, fires in the control room, etc. You can feel the ordeal!![:D]
Finally, DD Inconstant found it in the surface and put it out of its misery: 5 direct gun hits and "Sub slips beneath the waves"

Of course, this means that he is now well aware that a heavy RN TF is in Diego Garcia; surprise for any raiding in the Indian Ocean is completely lost.
At the very least, he didn't discover the carriers (at Diego Garcia) or the Battleships (at Addu)... so if he comes with a surface heavy TF; I might still be able to surprise him

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Diego Garcia at 11,62

Japanese Ships
SS I-158, hits 4

Allied Ships
CA Dorsetshire
CL Newcastle
CL Glasgow
CLAA Van Heemskerck
DD Nestor
DD Isis
DD Hotspur
DD Tjerk Hiddes
DD Isaac Sweers

ASW attack near Diego Garcia at 11,62

Japanese Ships
SS I-158, hits 10, heavy damage

Allied Ships
CA Dorsetshire
CL Newcastle
CL Glasgow
CLAA Van Heemskerck
DD Nestor
DD Isis
DD Hotspur
DD Tjerk Hiddes
DD Isaac Sweers

ASW attack near Diego Garcia at 11,62

Japanese Ships
SS I-158, hits 5, and is sunk

Allied Ships
CL Hobart
DD Encounter
DD Inconstant

SS I-158 is sighted by escort
DD Inconstant firing on surfaced sub ....
Sub slips beneath the waves

[Jorge_Stanbury]

The main event of tonight; carriers near Suva!!



As you can see, there is little information on their intentions. But the fact he tried to skip the naval search patterns hints his objective is Suva.
If I have to guess, this is a raid, and not an invasion.

Notice how lucky I was with timing; as you can see on the map, I have a heavy amphibious TF carrying the 32th USA division to Luganville,
had he arrived two turns ago, he would had intercepted and likely massacred a full division.

I am of course also very happy about the search network, as I can easily move out all TFs at risk. I will move another Catalina squadron to Suva to have even more coverage

I am not sure what to do at Luganville, I am sure he has not detected it and I think I could keep unloading for another turn. However, probably better to be cautious and just move west to Australia.
The devices that are still embarked are not critical: some motorized support, few artillery guns, the 32th can leave without them for the short time.

I am also thinking about "hiding" the SCTFs, maybe disband in a dot base and see what happens, if this is an invasion it will be good to have some guns nearby

Thoughts??

[Jorge_Stanbury]

And this is the 32th Division at Luganville. As mentioned, they just arrived yesterday, and there are still some devices embarked.

I am almost certain he doesn't know they just arrived yesterday, as his recon is focused on Ndeni

[Jorge_Stanbury]

tomorrow's search pattern [;)]

[Jorge_Stanbury]

Looks like this carrier foray was just an attempt to raid. Most likely he cancel it as soon as he got spotted.
2 turns before he would had found the 32nd division amph. TF, now he will get just empty ocean, so it makes sense to withdraw.



The other good news of the turn is that the Chinese hordes obliterated a regiment south of Chungking. He had the balls to put 1 regiment blocking the southern road... so I had to make him pay [:D]

I sent 9 corps [X(][:'(] and 4 will persecute; while the rest go back to Chungking

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 76,46 (near Chungking)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 86822 troops, 332 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 2790

Defending force 3882 troops, 26 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 127

Allied adjusted assault: 1608

Japanese adjusted defense: 25

Allied assault odds: 64 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), supply(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
1176 casualties reported
Squads: 110 destroyed, 46 disabled
Non Combat: 32 destroyed, 18 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 21 (6 destroyed, 15 disabled)
Units retreated 1

Allied ground losses:
1873 casualties reported
Squads: 87 destroyed, 73 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 4 disabled
Guns lost 8 (3 destroyed, 5 disabled)

Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
75th Chinese Corps
48th Chinese Corps
85th Chinese Corps
14th Chinese Corps
56th Chinese Corps
81st Chinese Corps
2nd Chinese Corps
68th Chinese Corps
90th Chinese Corps

Defending units:
58th Infantry Regiment

[BBfanboy]

I think that is the first time I have seen the Chinese have more casualties but fewer destroyed squads than the Japanese!
Well Done! [&o]