Tales from the First Time -DanSez (J) vs Przemcio231 (A) - no Przemcio231 please

[DanSez]

Jan 12 1942

I should have paid more attention to the appearance of those fighters in Singers and rested the bombers, doing sweeps:

Air Battle 1:
Morning Air attack on Johore Bahru , at 50,83

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 38 NM, estimated altitude 20,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-21-IIa Sally x 24
Ki-43-Ia Oscar x 17
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 25

Allied aircraft
Buffalo I x 10
Hurricane IIb Trop x 7
P-40B Warhawk x 13
P-40E Warhawk x 23

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21-IIa Sally: 12 destroyed, 5 damaged
Ki-43-Ia Oscar: 2 destroyed
Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 1 destroyed

No Allied losses

Allied ground losses:
5 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Runway hits 2

Air Battle 2:
Morning Air attack on Johore Bahru , at 50,83

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 32 NM, estimated altitude 25,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Japanese aircraft ** No Escorts **
Ki-21-IIa Sally x 22
Ki-48-Ib Lily x 22

Allied aircraft
Buffalo I x 10
Hurricane IIb Trop x 5
P-40B Warhawk x 10
P-40E Warhawk x 18

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21-IIa Sally: 8 destroyed, 3 damaged
Ki-48-Ib Lily: 9 destroyed, 1 damaged

No Allied losses

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 1

But the day was balanced somewhat by the developing movements toward Palembang.
as reported in game screen on 13th Jan turn:

[DanSez]

General Production Notes:

More resources flowing into the Home Islands now.

Lots of Zeros and Oscar fighters coming out - in fact turning some factories off as I watch the pool levels. Each fighter I crank out now that sits in the pool unused in 43 is one less newer fighter I can produce later (if I make it that far).

I have to manage my Lily squadrons carefully the next couple of months. A few more days like the one over Johore Bahru and the reserve pool will be depleted. I upgraded the Lily Ib line (34 factories) to researching the Lily IIa - yeah maybe not a great move, but if I can move it ahead 1 month before it goes active, I will be happy. Those factories will shift back into production at that time. (remember Realistic R&D is OFF)

I did restart the G5M2 Babs line with a small unused factory group. It is a long wait till the Myrt.

A few more MerchSy turned on - I have a feeling I will be needing those ships before the year is out.

<< edit to add Pool Graphic >>

[DanSez]

Jan 13 1942

Sweeping Singers and he comes up to fight!
Yeah....

Air Battle 1:
Morning Air attack on Singapore , at 50,84

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 37 NM, estimated altitude 24,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 24

Allied aircraft
Buffalo I x 11
Hurricane IIb Trop x 8
P-40B Warhawk x 13
P-40E Warhawk x 26

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Hurricane IIb Trop: 1 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 3 destroyed

Air Battle 2:
Morning Air attack on Singapore , at 50,84

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 24 NM, estimated altitude 25,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 31

Allied aircraft
Buffalo I x 10
Hurricane IIb Trop x 6
P-40B Warhawk x 13
P-40E Warhawk x 20

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-Ib Oscar: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Buffalo I: 2 destroyed
P-40B Warhawk: 1 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 2 destroyed

[DanSez]

Jan 13 1942:
Palembang Invasion Plans

As I have been warned to expect a 'surprise', I am packing a lot of DMS, DDs and other forces to absorb any surprise.

BatDiv1 had a good fight with the previous Cruiser task force near Singkawang and has not been refueled or reloaded.

I decide to take a run down the gauntlet and put a whipping on Batavia where I see planes gathering, then retire and reload these warriors for the next phase.

*****
Operation Palembang:
CarDiv 1:
CarDiv 1: 192 aircraft: TF 127
CV Kaga, Akagi
CVL Ryujo
CL Yura
CS Chitose
DD Yugumo, Shiratsuyu, Shigure, Yudachi, Jatsutade, Uryuke

BatDiv 2: Replaces BatDiv 1: TF 62
BB Hagato, Fuso
CA Kako
DD Hatsuharu, Nenohi, Hatsushima, Wataba

CruDiv 2: Reformed: TF 12
CA Takao, Atagp
DD Oshio, Harusame, Hibiki, Ayanami, Yugao

Invasion Fleet 1:
DD Akikaze, Kyukaze
DMS W-12, W-18
2 PBs
LSD Shinshu Maru
6 xAPs
Guards Mixed Bgd
3rd Mortor Bat
5th Mortor Bat
14th Ind Mortor Bat
31st Fld AA Bat

Invasion Fleet 2:
DD Fubuki, Usugumo
DMS W-10, W-11
xAK
2nd Tank Reg

Invasion Fleet 3:
2 PB, 1 xAK, 2 xAK-t
11th Special Base Force

Is this enough?
Recon says there are 29k troops, 190 guns, 68 AFVs in Palembang

I can pull in more within a few days, but these are going in to see what is there.

In Kuching, I have 22nd Air Flot with plenty of Betty/Nells loaded with Torps if he tries to rush in again. Naval search covers the sea all the way back to Soerabaja.

[DanSez]

Jan 13th 1942: more order results

Ships moving into final position near Palembang

Bombardment of Batavia was fairly successful:

Naval bombardment of Batavia at 49,98 - Coastal Guns Fire Back!

Allied aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 14 damaged
T.IVa: 1 damaged
139WH-3: 1 damaged
B-17D Fortress: 4 damaged
Vildebeest III: 2 damaged
PBY-5 Catalina: 1 damaged

13 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Japanese Ships
BB Haruna
BB Kongo
CL Jintsu
DD Asagumo, Shell hits 2
DD Hagikaze

Allied ground losses:
25 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled

Airbase hits 3
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 10

A review of ships lost so far:

Japan:
CL Naka, Oi
DD Michishio, Sagiri, Hakaze
SS I-16
5 SSXs (Pearl Harbor)
APD Aoi, Yomogi
DMS W-4, W-5, W-9, W-15, W-16, W-17, Tatsuko
8 PBs
2 SCs
2 TKs (smallest ones)
1 AG
10 xAPs [:(]
28 xAKs
12 xAKLs


Allied:
BB Nevada, Oklahoma, Arizona, Pennsylvania, California, Prince of Wales
BC Repulse
CA Houston, Australia, Canberra, Cornwall
CL Leander (???), Achilles, De Ruyter, Adelaide, Dragon, Mauritius, Raleigh, Boise
DD Sims, Anderson, Walke, Bagley, Farragut, Monaghan, Barker, Litchfield, Parrott, Stewart, Van Nes, Witte de With, Electra, Encounter, Isis, Jupiter
DM Montgomery
AM Vireo
SS Argonaut, Cachalot, Pickerel, Sailfish, S-38, S-41 KXI, KXII
4 PTs
1 PC
2 MLs
1 HDML
1 AO
4 TKs (2 big ones)
4 xAPs
1 AK
20 xAKs
13 xAKLs

so except for blowing up the landings at Kendari and Singkawang, I think things are going well if not a bit slow. Time is not my friend.
It is an enemy just as surely as Allied Command.

[DanSez]

Yard Word - as of 14 Jan 1942

In the Home Islands I have
2 BBs 3 CAs, 1 CVL and about 8 DDs in repair or undergoing upgrades
In Hong Kong/Cam Ranh Bay, Pescadores I have 3 CAs and another 6-8 DDs patching up holes.

CVL Shoho arrives in 14 days.
I-28 (Glen boat) also arrives in 14 days.

R&D - I have been taking the advice
Heavy coal pouring on the

Zero line:
A6M2 - all repairing
60(0) - not producing
28(2) - not producing
5x 19(11) - producing aircraft
Once repaired the 5x will walk up the line to the armored Zero

Oscar line:
KI-43-Ic
32(0) - not producing
25(0) - not producing
21(9) - producing aircraft
3x 19(11) - producing aircraft
KI-43-IIb
30(0) - R&D the first armored Oscar
I am going to push the KI-43-IIb to early production, then walk those R&D factories to the KI-43IV

Betty Line:
G4M1
3x 19(11) - producing aircraft
G4M3a
30(0) - R&D the armored Betty
I will crank out as many G4M1 as they will until the 3x factories completely repair, then shift them all into G4M3a research. I might have to switch/build some other factory to the G4M1 line later and I am also considering adding a 5th x30 R&D factory later this year.

other major R&D efforts still repairing
6x30
N1K1 George

5x30 Factories:
A7M3-J Sam
J7W1 Shinden
KI-61-Ia Tony
KI-84a Frank
P1Y1 Frances

4x30 Factories:
B6N1 Jill
D4Y1 Judy
KI-49-Ia Helen

3x30 Factories:
C6N1-S Myrt
J1N1 Irving
J2M3 Jack
KI-102a Randy

And some single or dual research lines, like the 34(0) KI-48 IIa Lily factory. The plan will continue to evolve over 1942 into better focus.

/* ********
Orders for the invasion have been sent.
Let's see what the surprise is.

[Mike McCreery]

Your opponent is demonstrating why attacking the Japanese at the beginning of the game before ships have had training and upgrades usually ends in disaster.

Occasionally if the allies can catch an unescorted transport group it can pay off but going toe to toe with the Japanese navy with their better training is generally a bad idea especially in big groups.

Nice job on whittling down his naval forces. It will pay off for you in the future!

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: DanSez

Is this enough?
Recon says there are 29k troops, 190 guns, 68 AFVs in Palembang

I can pull in more within a few days, but these are going in to see what is there.

Is it enough? Look at your troops, and see how many men a full division has or a regiment. Compare that to 29k. That will give you a very rough idea of how much he has there. Always expect surprises as recon numbers can be way off.

You can do ground bombing to identify troops present. Doesn't always give you a full picture.

[Lowpe]

On your plane r&d...looking much better (don't forget engines and engine research).

I notice lots of Naval fighters, but really no endwar Army fighters, which will be the majority of your fighters.

Look at the Ki83 and Ki94II.

Also Army night fighter...you have Nick, Dinah, Peggy and Randy to look at there, with Nick your first Army NF coming in at 4/44.

You will probably want to build at least one squadron of Dinahs - so as to convert some recon sentai's over to NF duty.

Roughly half your NF squadrons will be Army.

You may want to research the Zero NF, so as to be able to resize Naval NF squadrons. (This might be considered gamey).

[ny59giants]

Palembang - Since this is in Allied players hand at this point in time, I would wager that you will face the 18th UK Div that starts war leaving Cape Town. He probably landed her at Oosthaven and railed her up. He may have sent some of the Indian Brigades here that start the game at sea on west coast of India. Thus, the smart thing to do is take Oosthaven and march over land rather than land into that marsh hex (x3 combat modifier). If you try to rush this conquest two things might happen. One, your forces get a bloody nose when you find whats there. Two, the oil and refineries are trashed when you take the base. I would isolate the base first and conduct a methodical siege of the base to minimize damage to industry there.

[Malagant]

If that is the 18th UK Div there it seems a golden opportunity to annihilate a high-value formation.

I'm not real clear on what your distribution of forces are, but have you got the 4th and 21st Divisions allocated somewhere yet? What about 4th and 21st Brigades (actually I think one of them is a Regiment). If you land at Oosthaven and isolate the base as Giants suggests, he'll have nowhere to go.

Looks like a golden opportunity to me! Good job getting Recon on there to find that!

[DanSez]

ORIGINAL: Wargmr

Your opponent is demonstrating why attacking the Japanese at the beginning of the game before ships have had training and upgrades usually ends in disaster.

Occasionally if the allies can catch an unescorted transport group it can pay off but going toe to toe with the Japanese navy with their better training is generally a bad idea especially in big groups.

Nice job on whittling down his naval forces. It will pay off for you in the future!

Yes, but these delays/sacrifices has allowed Allied High Command to pull a full British Division into Palembang.
Doesn't look good for the oil futures of the empire.

This is where 'playing the game' and 'recreating history' diverge. In a purely game sense, sacrificing units to slow up Japan, especially a stumbling inexperienced one, is probably the best 'game' decision. A more experienced player might have tactics to overcome this. I am still trying to develop those.

More lessons for this student to absorb.
Thanks for the encouragement.

[DanSez]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: DanSez

Is this enough?
Recon says there are 29k troops, 190 guns, 68 AFVs in Palembang

I can pull in more within a few days, but these are going in to see what is there.

Is it enough? Look at your troops, and see how many men a full division has or a regiment. Compare that to 29k. That will give you a very rough idea of how much he has there. Always expect surprises as recon numbers can be way off.

You can do ground bombing to identify troops present. Doesn't always give you a full picture.

Hard to tell from just numbers, those could have been base force, engineers, HQs, AA, or what -- I know now, didn't then...

[DanSez]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

On your plane r&d...looking much better (don't forget engines and engine research).

I notice lots of Naval fighters, but really no endwar Army fighters, which will be the majority of your fighters.

Look at the Ki83 and Ki94II.

Also Army night fighter...you have Nick, Dinah, Peggy and Randy to look at there, with Nick your first Army NF coming in at 4/44.

You will probably want to build at least one squadron of Dinahs - so as to convert some recon sentai's over to NF duty.

Roughly half your NF squadrons will be Army.

You may want to research the Zero NF, so as to be able to resize Naval NF squadrons. (This might be considered gamey).

I have some early factories to shift around in the middle of 42 to add to single or dual lines already started. As I get certain lines finished (like the Oscar-IV), many of those will shift to new lines of research. Thanks for the feedback. Still trying to absorb it all and make a plan.

[jwolf]

ORIGINAL: DanSez

This is where 'playing the game' and 'recreating history' diverge. In a purely game sense, sacrificing units to slow up Japan, especially a stumbling inexperienced one, is probably the best 'game' decision.

This is a good question. I know in my game as Allies I am struggling with the ethics of trying or not trying more or less suicidal strikes at critical Japanese amphib TFs. Trying to be realistic (??) about it as best I can, I would guess the historical Allies might have done this at a small number of absolutely vital spots, but not otherwise. Also holding me back is the suspicion that my "kamikaze" (heh) strike would only accomplish the suicide part and wouldn't really hurt the bad guys, but that is another matter. But for in-game strategy, I can well believe the cold-blooded Stalinesque strategy you suggest would be very effective.

[DanSez]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Palembang - Since this is in Allied players hand at this point in time, I would wager that you will face the 18th UK Div that starts war leaving Cape Town. He probably landed her at Oosthaven and railed her up. He may have sent some of the Indian Brigades here that start the game at sea on west coast of India. Thus, the smart thing to do is take Oosthaven and march over land rather than land into that marsh hex (x3 combat modifier). If you try to rush this conquest two things might happen. One, your forces get a bloody nose when you find whats there. Two, the oil and refineries are trashed when you take the base. I would isolate the base first and conduct a methodical siege of the base to minimize damage to industry there.

And you would be pretty much correct.
I landed troops in Palembang and there sat a big fat Brit Division, about 435AV. I have a little more than half his AB but more ART and Tanks - only a few engineers not wanting to trash the place.

Does Bombardment trash the industry or just focus on his troops?

I think the Oosthaven path might be a good chose (along with taking Batavia - or just bombard it to death?)- but where will I get the troops?

I need to do some research.

Meanwhile I have been gathering troops and ships around Babeldoab to make a stab toward Baikpapen. The KB is there (in the dark), plus Taiyo and Honso - Maybe sailing down the whole length of Java beating down his air units escorting those invaders to Oosthaven - and wrecking a few ports along the way - would that be too bold a move?

I would be leaving Babeldaob lightly defended until I pull forces from either the Home Islands (BB,6DDs) and or Truk (1BB/2CAs/4CLs/10DDs.)

thanks

[DanSez]

ORIGINAL: Malagant

If that is the 18th UK Div there it seems a golden opportunity to annihilate a high-value formation.

I'm not real clear on what your distribution of forces are, but have you got the 4th and 21st Divisions allocated somewhere yet? What about 4th and 21st Brigades (actually I think one of them is a Regiment). If you land at Oosthaven and isolate the base as Giants suggests, he'll have nowhere to go.

Looks like a golden opportunity to me! Good job getting Recon on there to find that!

21st Div is engaged in the siege of Clark Field - it would take a little time to pull out/reload and send south. A week or more to get there.

the 34th Division recently left Hong Kong on the way to Malaysia (in transport mode) - I could land/reload it in Amphib and sent that to Oosthaven (with friends).

thanks

[DanSez]

ORIGINAL: jwolf

ORIGINAL: DanSez

This is where 'playing the game' and 'recreating history' diverge. In a purely game sense, sacrificing units to slow up Japan, especially a stumbling inexperienced one, is probably the best 'game' decision.

This is a good question. I know in my game as Allies I am struggling with the ethics of trying or not trying more or less suicidal strikes at critical Japanese amphib TFs. Trying to be realistic (??) about it as best I can, I would guess the historical Allies might have done this at a small number of absolutely vital spots, but not otherwise. Also holding me back is the suspicion that my "kamikaze" (heh) strike would only accomplish the suicide part and wouldn't really hurt the bad guys, but that is another matter. But for in-game strategy, I can well believe the cold-blooded Stalinesque strategy you suggest would be very effective.

I am all for playing a good game - it is just matching temperaments of the two players who invest so much time and effort, that emotions can flare up a minor disagreement into a broken match.

That is some words of wisdom to the noobs out there...


Personally, I don't want to follow 'history' that closely as we all know how that ended. But it seems a bit odd that the side sacrificing troops and ships without concern would be the one with the materialistic preponderance that those sacrifices will mean nothing to them in the long run.

Then is it a 'sacrifice' or just a game tactic?

[DanSez]

In other news, Wake Island was just pounded in a heavy raid (3-4 CAs) from Pearl Harbor.
In all the various places needing attention, troops, supplies, etc - I have not laid mines there yet.

That becomes a higher priority now - along with the invasion of Oosthaven.

[ny59giants]

First time playing a PBEM as Japan shortly after AE came out was against FatR playing one of JuanG's mod that included extra BBs for both sides. It wasn't until April that I took Singapore. Somehow, he got the 18th UK Div there. [&:] When I finally got to Palembang and took it in May 42, the industry was trashed. I had less than 100 intact Oil and less than 100 intact Refineries. [X(][X(] Too many painful lessons to share here, but I learned a lot before surrendering in July 42. Last game as Japan had Singapore fall on 31 Dec 41 when I used the Mersing Gambit on the 10th and came at Singapore with 7 divisions. A little overkill, but I failed to push this advantage afterwards.

Moral of story is to keep a stiff upper lip. [:D]