Turnaround? Lowpe (J) vs Tiemanj (A) Stock

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: Miller

Good read this. One tip for when the inevitable CV showdown comes, make sure all your CV TFs contain less than 200 planes to minimise the chance of any co-ordination penalty. In my current game I managed to get a 700 plane mega strike to launch all as one that made it through a 500 plane CAP to do major damage to the Allies, so don't be afraid to take him on sooner rather than later in this regard. What are respective CV strengths at the moment?

Are you sure on that? I want to maximize my AA too, and I like what Mr. Kane did to Joc very much, and that was with a 500 plane limit. The massed AA performed very well for Mr. Kane in that fight...I think I will go re-read that particular fight.

I am struggling now with how to make the approach hopefully unseen.

Yeah, and check up with Erik what he did too. He also managed some massive alpha strikes. Many of which pretty much just ignored my 2000 plane CAP... grrr. [:@]

[Lowpe]

Here is the KB minus the Kaga and some CL/DD. She will be in position to merge with the KB tomorrow. One CS is steaming to meet also with 22 Rexes aboard, but probably won't make it in time.

My basic thought was to assemble the KB 19 hexes from Rota/Tinian and then move in. He may or may not spot them...

Or delay my strike, move 6 hexes from Peleliu and then the following day enter there and disband, and then on the third day strike from there as there is no search currently there. However there is search at Yap, etc...so this delays, and I am equally likely to be spotted.

This is the time for help/advice as I have all day and probably into Sunday morning to finish the turn as the Allies are away.

KB: I have lost two CVs, Allies 4.

[Miller]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: Miller

Good read this. One tip for when the inevitable CV showdown comes, make sure all your CV TFs contain less than 200 planes to minimise the chance of any co-ordination penalty. In my current game I managed to get a 700 plane mega strike to launch all as one that made it through a 500 plane CAP to do major damage to the Allies, so don't be afraid to take him on sooner rather than later in this regard. What are respective CV strengths at the moment?

Are you sure on that? I want to maximize my AA too, and I like what Mr. Kane did to Joc very much, and that was with a 500 plane limit. The massed AA performed very well for Mr. Kane in that fight...I think I will go re-read that particular fight.

I am struggling now with how to make the approach hopefully unseen.

Yeah, and check up with Erik what he did too. He also managed some massive alpha strikes. Many of which pretty much just ignored my 2000 plane CAP... grrr. [:@]

I think there is a glitch whereby mega CAPs need to face a few strikes before they "wake up" properly. Basically regardless of CAP settings when the first strike comes in almost all the CAP will be on standby or scrambling so will not be in a position to do much damage to the attackers. So basically pray that your first strike in the morning is huge......

Here is the combat report of the strike I mentioned in my above post, note the almost total lack of airborne fighters of my opponent.......
orning Air attack on TF, near Legaspi at 94,82

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 40 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5c Zero x 297
B6N2 Jill x 200
D4Y3 Judy x 234

Allied aircraft
F4U-1A Corsair x 68
F6F-3 Hellcat x 433

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5c Zero: 29 destroyed
B6N2 Jill: 27 destroyed, 21 damaged
B6N2 Jill: 6 destroyed by flak
D4Y3 Judy: 35 destroyed, 12 damaged
D4Y3 Judy: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 6 destroyed

Allied Ships
CV Jamestown
CV Bunker Hill, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
CV Plymouth Rock, Bomb hits 1
BB Indiana
CVL Belleau Wood, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
CVL Independence, Torpedo hits 4, and is sunk
CVL Cowpens, Bomb hits 11, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
CVL Monterey, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
CVL Princeton, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
CV Yorktown, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires
DD Hutchins, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Abner Read, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Izard, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Sigourney, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Heermann
DD Hoel
DD Kimberly, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x B6N2 Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
5 x B6N2 Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
6 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
6 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
16 x B6N2 Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
2 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
20 x B6N2 Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
7 x B6N2 Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
11 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
17 x B6N2 Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
8 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
9 x B6N2 Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
8 x B6N2 Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
14 x B6N2 Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
12 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
9 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
14 x B6N2 Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
5 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
17 x B6N2 Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
6 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
15 x B6N2 Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
7 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
15 x B6N2 Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
1 x B6N2 Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
1 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
21 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
9 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
2 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
7 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
15 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
12 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
6 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
2 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
5 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
7 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
8 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
4 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
8 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
4 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
4 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
4 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb

CAP engaged:
VF-17 with F4U-1A Corsair (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 11 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 24 minutes
VF-33 with F6F-3 Hellcat (4 airborne, 12 on standby, 16 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 21000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 31 minutes
VF-38 with F6F-3 Hellcat (4 airborne, 12 on standby, 18 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 11000 and 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 33 minutes
VF-40 with F4U-1A Corsair (0 airborne, 10 on standby, 14 scrambling)
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 25 minutes
VF-3 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 10 on standby, 22 scrambling)
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 21000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 31 minutes
VF-16 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 9 on standby, 19 scrambling)
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 33 minutes
VF-18 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 10 on standby, 21 scrambling)
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 21000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 30 minutes
VF-71 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 10 on standby, 21 scrambling)
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 21000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 46 minutes
VF-23 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 7 on standby, 14 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 35 minutes
VF-25 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 7 on standby, 14 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 41 minutes
VF-30 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 11 scrambling)
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 18000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 33 minutes
VF-26 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 17 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 14000 and 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 48 minutes
VF-37 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 16 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 18000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 40 minutes
VF-60 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 17 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 39 minutes
VC(F)-7 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 16 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 11000 and 22000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 44 minutes
VMF-111 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 9 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 38 minutes
VMF-121 with F4U-1A Corsair (0 airborne, 5 on standby, 11 scrambling)
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 11000 and 18000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 30 minutes
VMF-221 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 16 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 14000 and 22000.
Time for all group planes to reach intercep

[Lowpe]

13th Base Force arrives in 6 days and it will go to HahaJimi or Daito.

I just dropped the Armored Cars off on Daito to get something there.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: obvert

This is something that was apparently a database error in Babes. A lot of tanks can fly!

You might have a convo with your opponent to make sure he knows that when there is a tank in a larger unit it might get flown around, and that maybe it's best not to fly M5 and Valentines to Chungking! [:D]

We are playing stock scenario 6, so the error is there...

[Miller]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: obvert

This is something that was apparently a database error in Babes. A lot of tanks can fly!

You might have a convo with your opponent to make sure he knows that when there is a tank in a larger unit it might get flown around, and that maybe it's best not to fly M5 and Valentines to Chungking! [:D]

We are playing stock scenario 6, so the error is there...

I think the transport version of the H8K can carry small tanks?

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Miller

I think there is a glitch whereby mega CAPs need to face a few strikes before they "wake up" properly. Basically regardless of CAP settings when the first strike comes in almost all the CAP will be on standby or scrambling so will not be in a position to do much damage to the attackers. So basically pray that your first strike in the morning is huge......

Here is the combat report of the strike I mentioned in my above post, note the almost total lack of airborne fighters of my opponent.......
orning Air attack on TF, near Legaspi at 94,82

Wow, nice job. So you had 4 Task Forces that that raid launched from? All from the same hex I take it?

[Miller]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: Miller

I think there is a glitch whereby mega CAPs need to face a few strikes before they "wake up" properly. Basically regardless of CAP settings when the first strike comes in almost all the CAP will be on standby or scrambling so will not be in a position to do much damage to the attackers. So basically pray that your first strike in the morning is huge......

Here is the combat report of the strike I mentioned in my above post, note the almost total lack of airborne fighters of my opponent.......
orning Air attack on TF, near Legaspi at 94,82

Wow, nice job. So you had 4 Task Forces that that raid launched from? All from the same hex I take it?

Yes, each with 2CV and 1 CVL. I have to admit I think there is a slight bias built into the game that keeps Jap CV air competitive with some sort of hidden bonus.

[ny59giants]

Only advice will be what I would have done as Allies. I would have two groups of PBYs on each base flying extended range (20 hexes). So, you may have to plan on a Full Speed run from just beyond this range to avoid detection. Second, start clicking on hexes between KB and Marianas to see if there is a storm front moving in that you could use for cover. Weather 'can' be your friend. [;)]

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Miller

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: Miller

I think there is a glitch whereby mega CAPs need to face a few strikes before they "wake up" properly. Basically regardless of CAP settings when the first strike comes in almost all the CAP will be on standby or scrambling so will not be in a position to do much damage to the attackers. So basically pray that your first strike in the morning is huge......

Here is the combat report of the strike I mentioned in my above post, note the almost total lack of airborne fighters of my opponent.......
orning Air attack on TF, near Legaspi at 94,82

Wow, nice job. So you had 4 Task Forces that that raid launched from? All from the same hex I take it?

Yes, each with 2CV and 1 CVL. I have to admit I think there is a slight bias built into the game that keeps Jap CV air competitive with some sort of hidden bonus.

Wel, it's more the fact that pilots are just way better than historical at the time when the Japanese had these airframes to use. The Judy is a damn good DB, much quicker than Allied counterparts. The Grace even more so, and the Jill is a very solid TB. I was still flying groups had-filed with 80exp golden boys in 45 in my longer game, and that just didn't happen in the war.

In DBB I'm hoping flak makes up for this unusual situation a bit. So far I like it a lot!

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Miller
I think the transport version of the H8K can carry small tanks?

They weren't the transport version, and it still wouldn't matter load greater than 10 no carry.

That tank was load 7 so all good![:)] WAD.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Only advice will be what I would have done as Allies. I would have two groups of PBYs on each base flying extended range (20 hexes). So, you may have to plan on a Full Speed run from just beyond this range to avoid detection. Second, start clicking on hexes between KB and Marianas to see if there is a storm front moving in that you could use for cover. Weather 'can' be your friend. [;)]

Clear to the west; thunderstorms to the north. Partly cloudy all the way there.

Well that is good advice.[:)]

[witpqs]

I think the discussion was that load 7 was an error because those tanks were not meant to air transportable.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: Miller
I think the transport version of the H8K can carry small tanks?

They weren't the transport version, and it still wouldn't matter load greater than 10 no carry.

That tank was load 7 so all good![:)] WAD.

Is it load 10 no carry, or load 10 no paradrop? [;)]

Because you can definitely transport IJA squads by air and they are load 15+.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: Miller
I think the transport version of the H8K can carry small tanks?

They weren't the transport version, and it still wouldn't matter load greater than 10 no carry.

That tank was load 7 so all good![:)] WAD.

Is it load 10 no carry, or load 10 no paradrop? [;)]

Because you can definitely transport IJA squads by air and they are load 15+.

transport: squad any load, non squad 10 or more no go.

Only parachute units can be dropped, and any non squad device load over 7 ? won't drop with the para unit.

[Lowpe]

Air transportable AFVs...

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: Miller
I think the transport version of the H8K can carry small tanks?

They weren't the transport version, and it still wouldn't matter load greater than 10 no carry.

That tank was load 7 so all good![:)] WAD.

Is it load 10 no carry, or load 10 no paradrop? [;)]

Because you can definitely transport IJA squads by air and they are load 15+.

Devices count toward load limits. Squads do not. Any inf/eng/support squad of just men can be flown, including MMG squads that are more than 9 load costs.

Anything load 9 or below can be lifted. Some tanks have been listed as less than that and that was a mistake.

See Symon/JWE's response to my post here a few posts later in this thread about airlifting! [;)]

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=3810858

[Lowpe]

Here is the rule from the book on coordinating strikes...200 + random 0-200 number.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: Lowpe




They weren't the transport version, and it still wouldn't matter load greater than 10 no carry.

That tank was load 7 so all good![:)] WAD.

Is it load 10 no carry, or load 10 no paradrop? [;)]

Because you can definitely transport IJA squads by air and they are load 15+.

Devices count toward load limits. Squads do not. Any inf/eng/support squad of just men can be flown, including MMG squads that are more than 9 load costs.

Anything load 9 or below can be lifted. Some tanks have been listed as less than that and that was a mistake.

See Symon/JWE's response to my post here a few posts later in this thread about airlifting! [;)]

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=3810858

Hm...makes sense to me. Database error. Is the fix for us to simply edit the tanks to 10? That simple?

[JocMeister]

How many turns per day do you two usually do?