Jorge's(A) crusade to the fabled kingdom of PresterJohn(J) DBB-C --- Allied AAR

[jwolf]

Operation "run away" seems to be a success so far ... but with Ceylon in Japanese hands, where and how far do you need to go in order to be reasonably safe?

[BBfanboy]

Does Indomitable have enough ops points left to operate those aircraft? British carriers have so few of those!

[Jorge_Stanbury]

ORIGINAL: jwolf

Operation "run away" seems to be a success so far ... but with Ceylon in Japanese hands, where and how far do you need to go in order to be reasonably safe?

I would say 12 hexes; better if it is more of course.

Search range/ naval attack range is deceptive; just because Mrs. Betty can do 17 hexes does not mean you will strike so far This was key to the "success" if we can call it that way, simply put, neither Pt Blair nor Victoria Point were in a position to provide a lot of support. Trincomalee was a non entity for most of the fight and from email exchanges, I know he did believe it was going to help.

So key lesson is to not put too much faith on the "wonder" range of Betties/ Nells for naval attack. Of course he just started to correct this later on, with Pt Blair now at level 3 airbase. A big challenge for Japanese players expanding ahistorically is that your naval search/ naval strike capability does not grow with the expansion; you have the same # of LBAs and patrols, while you now have a lot more water to cover. Just look at India; he will need Betties at Ceylon, Pt Blair, Calcutta and maybe Rangoon/ Victoria Point to guarantee a fully covered pattern.


EDIT: and where to go?? I will take all ships off map, heading to Mombasa, then I will sacrifice some virgins (very hard to find these day) to the sea god Cthulhu in hope there are no flooding events.

[Jorge_Stanbury]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Does Indomitable have enough ops points left to operate those aircraft? British carriers have so few of those!

It has enough OP points (only 44 expended), and surprisingly a full load of sorties; so it has not consumed any yet... which I interpret as spending only torpedoes so far.



And I am not too worried about not launching next turn; if anything they are moving faster than anybody else to Diego Garcia as they need fuel so they might not be in a position to launch against the Light cruiser TF

I will trade some damaged ships for keeping the surprise; the main reason being CVL Ryujo is unaccounted. I expect it to come sooner or later, better if he believes the British are defeated/ easy target.. Just imagine if I manage to surprise and sink Ryujo!

[witpqs]

I didn't know that torpedoes were counted separately - I that a plane taking off with a torpedo counted as a torpedo and a sortie.

[Jorge_Stanbury]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I didn't know that torpedoes were counted separately - I that a plane taking off with a torpedo counted as a torpedo and a sortie.

I thought it consumed both; but the snapshot is there; Indomitable had been at sea without any form of replenishment since the attacks

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I didn't know that torpedoes were counted separately - I that a plane taking off with a torpedo counted as a torpedo and a sortie.

I thought it consumed both; but the snapshot is there; Indomitable had been at sea without any form of replenishment since the attacks

That is a head scratcher - it looks like Indomitable has somehow replenished sorties (the word I meant when I referred to Ops Points).
Maybe they transferred bombs from other carriers by high line!

[Jorge_Stanbury]

Good news is that I keep always around a month of past turns:

So I went back 3 days, before doing any rebase, just after the battles:

You can see that the sorties are at full while the torpedoes depleted.

Do you think this is a bug? should we ask if this is WAD?

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

Good news is that I keep always around a month of past turns:

So I went back 3 days, before doing any rebase, just after the battles:

You can see that the sorties are at full while the torpedoes depleted.

Do you think this is a bug? should we ask if this is WAD?

I can think of one possibility - on the last replenishment the port was too small or could not supply torpedoes, so the ship sailed without any, and the sorties were never used because the planes are all set to training! Don't roll your eyes [8|], people have done that (but I'll never confess! ).
You can check the air unit settings quickly and then check the combat reports to see if there is any evidence that Indomitable's squadrons were in the fray. Sometimes weather keeps one ship from launching while others do, if they are in different TFs.

[Jorge_Stanbury]

It was not the case because this was the RN carriers' baptism of fire. They never used torpedoes before

Moreover, I have the turns before each battle, and I can see how they looked before the battle and after each day

You can see it here:



May 18 (before engagements)
Formidable was at 45/45 torpedoes, 153/ 153 sorties
Indomitable was at 45/45 torpedoes, 225/ 225 sorties

May 19
Formidable was at 45/29 torpedoes, 153/ 153 sorties
Indomitable was at 45/16 torpedoes, 225/ 225 sorties

May 20
Formidable was at 45/21 torpedoes, 153/ 149 sorties
Indomitable was at 45/5 torpedoes, 225/ 225 sorties

May 21
Formidable was at 45/21 torpedoes, 153/ 138 sorties
Indomitable was at 45/0 torpedoes, 225/ 225 sorties

I ordered Formidable to attack with bombs on the last day... this explains why the sorties got down, while Indomitable kept using torpedoes

Looks like you either expend torpedoes or sorties, but not both!

[witpqs]

My suspicion is that it is WAD, but I've never heard of it before this so it might pay to pose the question.

[IdahoNYer]

so the "sorties" line reflect bomb ordinance, while the torp line tracks torpedo ordinance?

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: IdahoNYer

so the "sorties" line reflect bomb ordinance, while the torp line tracks torpedo ordinance?

So it would appear, but there should have been an AVGAS cost to the TB sortie, just as fighters that accompany a strike use sorties and CAP fighters use a portion of a sortie each to account for the fuel. I think the question should be put in the war room for the developers to explain what the design is.

[Jorge_Stanbury]

Both PresterJohn and I went on vacations this week; I am in Vegas! [8D] this of course meant that turns are a lot slower

But anyway, I finally got the turn, and it was almost good, as up until the end there was little to report.. however, submarine disaster; CV Indomitable, the "healthy one" that recently recieved the Fulmar/ Swordfish reinforcements, got torpedoes twice by I-164

This submarine tried earlier and got hit by DD Norman, it however managed to tried again and scored 2 crippling shots. I really hate IJN submarines [:@] I can have 10 submarines close to the enemy and they do nothing, while IJN subs are unstoppable really

Since only Hermes is now active, this will now be called "Operation sauve qui peut". All carrier TFs are moving at full speed to either Diego Garcia of Addu, they will unload planes, and then get off-map. Diego Garcia will have to act as "unsinkable carrier".. problem is it is still only level 1.95 I really hope it will reach level 2 tomorrow

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ASW attack near Diego Garcia at 17,62

Japanese Ships
SS I-164, hits 1

Allied Ships
DD Norman

SS I-164 is sighted by escort
DD Norman attacking submerged sub ....
DD Norman fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Norman fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Norman fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Norman fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub


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Sub attack near Diego Garcia at 17,62

Japanese Ships
SS I-164

Allied Ships
CV Indomitable, Torpedo hits 2, on fire
DD Norman

Ammo storage explosion on CV Indomitable
SS I-164 launches 4 torpedoes at CV Indomitable
I-164 diving deep ....
DD Norman fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Norman fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Norman fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Norman fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Norman fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub

[jwolf]

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury
while IJN subs are unstoppable really

Ammo storage explosion on CV Indomitable

Oh sh**. [:(] Hate those @#$!$$! Jap subs. [:(][:(]

[IdahoNYer]

Tough break on Indomitable - will she make it to port??

Bigger question is why your subs aren't making attacks. No necessarily successful attacks, but attacking none the less...
So, questions:
- are you using patrol zones? Think this helps reducing detection.
- what is the detect level on your subs? Move if detected.
- sub leaders aggressive?
- sub react level set to 1?

I noticed you have one TF with many subs - my hunch is that if this TF is detected, all the subs in the TF suffer.

[Jorge_Stanbury]

It should arrive to Diego Garcia next turn (at full speed), unless there is another "incident"

And regarding submarines, it is not that I am not having attacks, it is just that due to bad luck the attacks had being failures or against convoys; while his are very effective always

- I am using patrol zones; although I might be keeping the zones too close (example attached)

- Right now looks like zero; although to be fair, since the last few turns he has disbanded all targets to Pt Blair

- sub leaders: attached in the example is the typical Dutch captain; I have tried to put better skippers for "S", Dutch or British submarines, I am not bothering yet with fleet boats due to torpedo fiasco.
Also, "best" Dutch skippers does not necesarily means "good"

And no, other than transport missions, or moving from west coast to PH, I always keep 1 sub per TF; I even tried 2-subs but I didn't see any main difference and went back to 1 per TF

[Jorge_Stanbury]

PresterJohn's vacations are over, and I finally got the turn back!!

Not a lot to report:
- Diego Garcia was mined. This is no longer an issue as I decided to skip it completely and just retreat directly to Mombasa (I will expand later)
- TK Esso Richmond lost [:(] torpedoed near the west coast... it was a very nice, tanker.. will be missed
- DD Vendetta sunk by 4 IJN destroyers
- Several air battles over Chungking: 9 Helen, 7 Oscars, 5 H81A3, 3 Lancers destroyed... this is bad news; as attrition will make him prevail on the long run
- BB Royal Sovereign is still used as bombing practice; it received more than 8 hits in total, but no penetration hits. Damage is so severe it should sink tomorrow

[Jorge_Stanbury]

Damned I-164 really screwed everything!!

with Indomitable in working conditions and full of planes, I could had sunk his task forces [:@]

Without Indomitable, I can only run and hope for the best. This is tomorrow's plan:

I have a dozen Fulmars and a few Albacores on naval attack on Diego Garcia; I hope they do some damage, but the Fulmars are not trained in naval attack.

The only advantage I have is his lack of naval search capabilities; probably only short ranged FPs. and with some good luck weather will ground them



Tomorrow will be an interesting turn.. I hope it doesn't end too painful... Most likely scenario is Hermes and AKs going down, everybody else running away

[Jorge_Stanbury]

Surprisingly the big enemy TF failed to get anything; was it low on ammo??

Anyway, the f-ing submarines kept doing wonders for Japan; this time it was Hermes turn [:@][:@] they also put BB Royal Sovereign out of its misery; this was kind of expected, as Royal Sovereign was already a walking dead

I really hate Japanese submarines; they managed to put 4 torpedoes in 3 carriers in the last week!! but this was a good lesson; once the USN comes into play I will have some ASW TFs following carriers. And certainly it makes sense to avoid moving them too much until I have better ASW capabilities.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR May 27, 42
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Sub attack near Little Andaman at 40,60

Japanese Ships
SS I-32

Allied Ships
BB Royal Sovereign, Torpedo hits 3, heavy damage

SS I-32 launches 6 torpedoes


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Diego Garcia at 12,62

Japanese Ships
SS I-160

Allied Ships
CVL Hermes, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Vampire

Ammo storage explosion on CVL Hermes
SS I-160 launches 6 torpedoes at CVL Hermes
I-160 diving deep ....
DD Vampire fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Vampire fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Vampire fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Vampire fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Vampire fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub