Strange game

[HobbesACW]

Hi folks, I bought this game when it came out and there was quite a buzz for a couple of months then the forum suddenly died. I've never known a game to give a boardgame feel like this one did. For me the game mechanics are flawed and the maps are too small to allow for much tactical decision making. I enjoyed it for a couple of months then got frustrated - but regretted what might have been. Now I see it has been relegated to the sub-forums. Seems a shame as it was close to being a wonderful game.

Chris

[Cataphract88]

Yes, the way the forum died just like that was utterly weird. [&:]

[fran52]

For me the game mechanics are flawed

Why are flawed? Which mechanics are more doubtful?I have produced a mod to reproduce some ASL,or better to say SL scenarios,given the complexity of ASL rules.Now i have revised the mod ,some value for the tank are more similar to the ASL mechanics if not the same.In the previous there was the possibility for a 37mm gun to destroy a T34,now is impossible.
I have not yet published in the forum this new version because,and this is the reason of the sub-forum i think,there is in development a new version of the game(and i want to understand if something change), but not with the collaboration of Matrix.You can find something on the site of LnL publishing.Seem that the development consists in a base program with the possibility to buy modules like Heroes of Stalingrad,Heroes of the Pacific and so on.
The maps are not too small in my opinion,are only few hexagons less than an ASL maps, so enough for the intent.

[grrrrendel]

Personally I've really been enjoying this game. It's the best fix for old ASL lovers out there. Overall I think the game mechanics are well balanced. If you are dissapointed by map size... try downloading some of the user submitted games, or the campaign maps. The map builder is also impressive, even if not well documented. You can build huge battles if you want to!

[HobbesACW]

For me I was put off by the lack of indirect fire and the weird spotting rules. You know a unit is in a certain location but cannot fire at it. Other minor oddities like being able to fire through cover hexes if you happen to be able to trace a LoS along a hex spine + the suicidal AI that left cover for no reason. Some of the rules make the game more like a puzzle game. Having so few units - one bad move ends the scenario. A large stack of elite units being disrupted and then taken out by any little unit that can assault them - again makes it play like a puzzle. It's not such a bad thing really but makes it very difficult to play again after a break unless you can remember every non-intuitive rule. I enjoyed it for a couple of months and considered it money well spent - but after a couple of months my interest waned. It seems a lot of other players felt the same way. I'd like to give it another go but can't be bothered to read the manual again.

[wodin]

^^ I agree. Killed the game for me. Totally goes against German Urban Warfare doctrine used in Stalingrad. So you just can't use proper tactics, with the now you see me now you don't and 'cos you don't you can't shoot LOS\Spotting mechanic. Shame.

[fran52]

I don't know what to say.With some conversion of ASL scenarios ,made by me,i have found a quite good playability.The rules are not so difficult compared to others game and are intuitable.If you look at the rules of ASL(boardgame) or a PC game like War in the East you become crazy.
I agree with Wodin when speak about the spotting mechanics ,but in my converted scenarios was not so determinant.
About the LOS in the cover hexes:is easy to change,in my mod there is a change also in the terrain.The wood is always a blocking LOS.

For me I was put off by the lack of indirect fire

But there is the indirect fire,why you say the lack?
Are wrong some calculation for the LOS at different level but, more serious,are totally wrong the calculations for the bog into the mud.
I hope to see corrected this bugs in the new version.
The game is not so bad and ,since i was an ASL player,is also the game more close to this board game.

[HobbesACW]

For indirect fire I mean being able to fire at a position that you suspect contains an enemy even if they are not currently spotted.
Maybe I should have said suppressive fire.

Cheers,
Chris

[fran52]

The off board artillery need to be placed in a hex with los,so,with the scattering,is possible that you damage units not spotted.
Different is the indirect fire on the map,in this case you can only fire to a spotted hex.
Reading the rules,seem possible to have a sort of barrage.
Speaking about the reproduction of the reality,the spotting rules seem better than a board game where you know all,what seem strange is the fact that any turn you must spot the unit/units already spotted the turn before.
For sure this rule is very different in comparison with the ASL mechanics.

[VegasOZ]

I bought this game on sale awhile back and I also find that the mechanics or phases setup is very uncomfortable. It prevents the player from doing some basic tactical things. The art and so forth are nice. The other thing I really dislike is the large size of the text boxes that almost cover up the map and unit counters from view.

It would be great if somebody would do a mod that changed (fixed?) the sequence of play or turn phases.

I do not recommend the game in it's present format.

[fran52]

It would be great if somebody would do a mod that changed (fixed?) the sequence of play or turn phases.

Mod for this kind of things ,i don't think is possible.In this case you must change the program,not the bitmap or the units datas.

[HobbesACW]

ORIGINAL: VegasOZ

I bought this game on sale awhile back and I also find that the mechanics or phases setup is very uncomfortable. It prevents the player from doing some basic tactical things. The art and so forth are nice. The other thing I really dislike is the large size of the text boxes that almost cover up the map and unit counters from view.

It would be great if somebody would do a mod that changed (fixed?) the sequence of play or turn phases.

I do not recommend the game in it's present format.

I think there is a very good game here and it's a shame that they made some bad design decisions about the mechanics. It's a five out of ten game that could have easily been a nine at least if a few changes were made.